Sen. Grassley: The US shouldn't blame Russia for meddling cause of... Italy 1948
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  Sen. Grassley: The US shouldn't blame Russia for meddling cause of... Italy 1948
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Author Topic: Sen. Grassley: The US shouldn't blame Russia for meddling cause of... Italy 1948  (Read 1855 times)
ApatheticAustrian
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« on: February 15, 2017, 09:57:57 PM »

Re: Russian meddling in election, @ChuckGrassley says U.S. is not innocent of such activity, notes CIA influence in 1948 Italian election.





https://twitter.com/jasonnobleDMR/status/831925845627457545


didn't realize mister chomsky and glenn greenwald are the avantgarde of modern GOP thinking.
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Cashew
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2017, 10:11:52 PM »

Good to see the Republican party finally owning up to the past, even if for hackish reasons.

Maybe next Trump will force them to apologize for the Iran coup.
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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2017, 10:18:56 PM »
« Edited: February 15, 2017, 10:22:08 PM by ApatheticAustrian »

I for once wouldn't allow Russia this meddling cause of their annexation of the Kuril Islands in 1945...they need to take responsibility!

(or....to kill the joke...how about russian involvement in the failed Coup d'etat in Montenegro 2016?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegrin_parliamentary_election,_2016#Conduct )
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jfern
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2017, 10:20:09 PM »

More relevant would be the US helping Yeltsin win. They sure don't like his chosen successor, though.
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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2017, 10:22:57 PM »

More relevant would be the US helping Yeltsin win. They sure don't like his chosen successor, though.

Yeltsin also wouldn't have liked him, without getting all those guarantees about his own safety.
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2017, 10:25:34 PM »

Justified Retaliation would come from Italy itself, not Russia. I believe Grassley is a good senator, but he needs to have more of an ability to stand up to Trump.
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Eharding
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2017, 10:31:07 PM »

Justified Retaliation would come from Italy itself, not Russia. I believe Grassley is a good senator, but he needs to have more of an ability to stand up to Trump.

-The cult of anti-personality around Trump is truly horrifying. There's no good reason for Grassley to be a blind opponent of everything Trump does.
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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2017, 10:35:13 PM »

Justified Retaliation would come from Italy itself, not Russia. I believe Grassley is a good senator, but he needs to have more of an ability to stand up to Trump.

-The cult of anti-personality around Trump is truly horrifying. There's no good reason for Grassley to be a blind opponent of everything Trump does.

if a party rides a narrative and an image for 8 to 16 years....getting even more radicalized each year...and then, after a suprise victory, suddenly decides to ride the opposite direction...also as radical as possible.....its politicians look like spineless cowards imho.

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Devout Centrist
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2017, 10:45:49 PM »

What f**king poor excuses for humans.

Way to go, guys, you're spineless cucks
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2017, 10:49:01 PM »

I never said Grassley should be in lockstep opposition to Trump. But he's spent the first month being a trump apologist - not necessarily to the extreme some others have (for instance, he didn't limit questions at Sessions's hearing like the education committee did at DeVos's hearing) - but still a big trump apologist. Let me be clear here - I don't regret endorsing him, and Patty Judge is not deserving of a senate seat. But he needs to grow a bit of a spine.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2017, 10:50:19 PM »

conveniently picked a Democratic administration -> can't imagine a Republican will ever bring up US intervention in Guatemala in the 50s.
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Blue3
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2017, 10:56:02 PM »

Grassley would be a master at playing Twister... he's already twisted his brain into a pretzel to make that claim.
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Beet
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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2017, 11:08:52 PM »

Grassley is correct. In both cases it was the right-wing sabotaging an election against the left-wing. So the real guilty party is... right-wingers?
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2017, 11:49:13 PM »

What the US did in 1948 (and the 30 years that followed) was shameful and Italy is still today suffering from the traumatic consequences of their meddling.

Guess what? Two wrongs don't make a right.
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Nyvin
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2017, 08:57:29 AM »

This is like robbing someone's house and saying it's not so bad because the people who own the house robbed their neighbor's house 20 years ago.
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Dan the Roman
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« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2017, 09:14:58 AM »

What the US did in 1948 (and the 30 years that followed) was shameful and Italy is still today suffering from the traumatic consequences of their meddling.

Guess what? Two wrongs don't make a right.

No it was the best thing that happened to Italy. Look at Czechoslovakia. It probably saved hundreds of thousands of lives, and Italy is about 4 times richer than it would have been if it had suffered under a Communist dictatorship. "Eurocomunism" was decades away at that point. Communists in any office meant one vote, one time, and then mass anti-Semitic purges following the break with Tito.

I don't think people comprehend how awful those Stalinist regimes were. They make Putin's Russia look like Sweden. Really, the only thing comparable today is North Korea.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2017, 09:37:31 AM »

I find it very interesting that activities that used to be clandestine out of courtesy (I.e. poking your noses in foreign elections) is now pretty much out in the open from all parties (see Bibi and Obama blatantly meddling in each others countries, the NATIONALIST CLUB all colluding to create some bizarre nonsensical International for Nationalists, every western politician sticking their noses in the 2016 race etc.)
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Bismarck
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« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2017, 10:53:52 AM »

Dang, I thought Grassley was better than this.
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Santander
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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2017, 11:25:39 AM »

I admire his loyalty to the President.
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Devout Centrist
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2017, 11:27:12 AM »

Vote 'em all out. The Republican Party will never stand up to Trump in any way.
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RI
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2017, 11:30:29 AM »

Honestly, it would be rather irresponsible of a country to not attempt to meddle in the important elections of another country.
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Badger
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« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2017, 12:56:13 PM »


no, just a sorry Trump apologist
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shua
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« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2017, 04:04:18 PM »

O no, someone putting things into historical perspective!  The Republic is doomed if this continues!
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Badger
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« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2017, 06:16:20 PM »

O no, someone putting things into historical perspective!  The Republic is doomed if this continues!

"historical perspective" =/= "bull$hit grossly inapplicable analogy as a nakedly partisan attempt to excuse Russian interference in American elections."

But hey, thanks for playing.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2017, 09:11:21 PM »

This is a particularly strange argument as the Soviet Union ALSO tried to influence the 1948 election in Italy. Which, contrary to HOT TAKES from internet tankies, was not close: the DCs would have won a fair election comfortably.
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