Roe Died

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Norma McCorvey (aka Roe of Roe v Wade) has passed away, according to CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/18/politics/norma-mccorvey-roe-v-wade-figure-dies/index.html?adkey=bn

[Classic Conservative]

RIP Pro-Life FF

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I've always felt sorry for her, though I don't know how she actually felt on the inside. I'm sure (and hoping) that she died content knowing that she did all she can to reverse the damage by the ruling. Even if there wasn't a Norma McCorvey, there still would eventually have been a Jane Roe. I'm just hoping she wasn't tortured by unnecessary guilt; after all, the gift of life is taken very seriously by the Christian faith and

Still, the thing that I, ironically as a Christian, find myself a bit more concerning about McCorvey isn't her abortion activism (that was an unavoidable reality in the course of history) but rather her claim to be "ex-gay." I'm not going to judge her for her sexuality, but any direct activism she might have made on behalf of gay conversion therapy to me was worse. As I said, her role in roe was that of a pawn. I hope her conscience was clear on that.

[Beet]

RIP. We may not have agreed, but she was a formidable foe deserving of respect.

[Indy Texas]

Honestly, I tend to think she was taken advantage of by Sarah Weddington, who was basically just out to make a name for herself. And I say that as someone whose views would generally be regarded as pro-choice.

If the abortion rights movement had simply been content to let abortion slowly become legalized state-by-state, it would have been much harder for a cohesive pro-life movement to metastasize onto the Christian Right and create such a major backlash.

[MarkD]

Honestly, I tend to think she was taken advantage of by Sarah Weddington, who was basically just out to make a name for herself. And I say that as someone whose views would generally be regarded as pro-choice.

If the abortion rights movement had simply been content to let abortion slowly become legalized state-by-state, it would have been much harder for a cohesive pro-life movement to metastasize onto the Christian Right and create such a major backlash.

Was abortion even much of a political issue before Roe v. Wade?

Not nationally. The Supreme Court nationalized the issue. But state-by-state, yes, abortion was gradually becoming more of a political issue even before Roe.
Even Prof. Alan Dershowitz has been saying that the Supreme Court came to the wrong conclusion in Roe. One day in Oct. 2003, he participated in a panel discussion on the topic of "Has the Supreme Court overstepped its constitutional mandate," -- the debate was staged at Regent University -- and the program was aired on C-SPAN. I taped the show, and have watched the two-hour long debate over and over. Dershowitz said that Roe v. Wade was one example of the Court overstepping its constitutional mandate. "I myself personally, strongly support a woman's right to choose abortion, but I do not support the constitutionalization of that particular right." He published a book in 2001 called "Supreme Injustice; How the High Court Hijacked Election 2000," and in it he wrote that Roe was wrongly decided, as well as offered a theory that Roe has radicalized the Republican Party. And he said it was unnecessary for the Court to resolve the abortion issue "in one fell swoop."

Dershowitz quoted this from a publication by the ACLU, published in fall 2000:
"Between 1967 and 1971, under mounting pressure from the women's rights movement, 17 states decriminalized abortion. Public opinion also shifted during this period. in 1968, only 15 percent of Americans favored legal abortions; by 1972, 64 percent did. When the Court announced its landmark 1973 ruling legalizing abortion in Roe v. Wade, it was marching in step with public opinion."
So, according to Dershowitz, "Advocates of a woman's right to choose abortion could have organized politically to win that right (at least for most woman under most circumstances) in the elected branches of government. ... The short-term consequences of constitutionalizing the abortion issue were powerful and positive for the pro-choice movement. The long-term consequences were disastrous. Roe v. Wade provided the religious right and the conservative wing of the Republican Party one of the best organizing tools and rallying cries imaginable. The right-to-life movement was energized by this decision and became one of the most potent political forces both nationally and in a large number of states. ... Though Roe v. Wade is still the law, that decision -- and the ensuing power of the right-to-life lobby -- almost certainly pressured Republican presidents to nominate activist right-wing justices such as Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas." ("Supreme Injustice," pages 192-194.)

[MarkD]

Honestly, I tend to think she was taken advantage of by Sarah Weddington, who was basically just out to make a name for herself. And I say that as someone whose views would generally be regarded as pro-choice.

If the abortion rights movement had simply been content to let abortion slowly become legalized state-by-state, it would have been much harder for a cohesive pro-life movement to metastasize onto the Christian Right and create such a major backlash.

Quoting some more of "Supreme Injustice,"
"Instead of devoting all of their resources to continuing the legislative and political battle, the pro-choice movement devoted much of its resources to the litigation option, whose goal it was to get the Supreme Court to constitutionalize a woman's right to choose abortion. It worked as planned, thus sparing the pro-choice movement the difficult political task or organizing and fund-raising on a state-by-state basis. The justices did the work for them by simply striking down most abortion laws in one fell swoop." After the decision by the Court, "the pro-choice movement became lethargic, celebrating its great judicial victory and neglecting the hard work of organizing and fund-raising -- at least in the beginning." (Pages 192-193.)

[Antonio the Sixth]

Honestly, I tend to think she was taken advantage of by Sarah Weddington, who was basically just out to make a name for herself. And I say that as someone whose views would generally be regarded as pro-choice.

If the abortion rights movement had simply been content to let abortion slowly become legalized state-by-state, it would have been much harder for a cohesive pro-life movement to metastasize onto the Christian Right and create such a major backlash.

Quoting some more of "Supreme Injustice,"
"Instead of devoting all of their resources to continuing the legislative and political battle, the pro-choice movement devoted much of its resources to the litigation option, whose goal it was to get the Supreme Court to constitutionalize a woman's right to choose abortion. It worked as planned, thus sparing the pro-choice movement the difficult political task or organizing and fund-raising on a state-by-state basis. The justices did the work for them by simply striking down most abortion laws in one fell swoop." After the decision by the Court, "the pro-choice movement became lethargic, celebrating its great judicial victory and neglecting the hard work of organizing and fund-raising -- at least in the beginning." (Pages 192-193.)

It's crazy how completely I agree with this.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

RIP Pro-Life FF

[Famous Mortimer]

Seemed like a seriously mentally ill woman, both when she was pro-choice and when she was pro-life. Exploited by those around her on both sides of the issue. Glad she is at peace now.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

This title could have meant something so great, but it means something so sad instead.  She was exploited by the lawyers wanting to legalize abortion, and I hope she knew she did everything she could once she became pro-life.  It's also worth noting that the baby involved in Roe v. Wade was not aborted and survived.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Honestly, I tend to think she was taken advantage of by Sarah Weddington, who was basically just out to make a name for herself. And I say that as someone whose views would generally be regarded as pro-choice.

If the abortion rights movement had simply been content to let abortion slowly become legalized state-by-state, it would have been much harder for a cohesive pro-life movement to metastasize onto the Christian Right and create such a major backlash.

Was abortion even much of a political issue before Roe v. Wade?

 Red-  Illegal.
 Purple- Legal in cases of rape.
 Blue-  Legal in cases of danger to woman's health.
 Green-  Legal in cases of danger to woman's health, rape or incest, or likely damaged fetus.
 Yellow-  Legal upon request.

WTF New Jersey? Granted I guess you could just go to New York so it wasn't that big of a deal, but still weird. Also how is the South more progressive than most of the country?

[President Johnson]

RIP FF.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Honestly, I tend to think she was taken advantage of by Sarah Weddington, who was basically just out to make a name for herself. And I say that as someone whose views would generally be regarded as pro-choice.

If the abortion rights movement had simply been content to let abortion slowly become legalized state-by-state, it would have been much harder for a cohesive pro-life movement to metastasize onto the Christian Right and create such a major backlash.

Was abortion even much of a political issue before Roe v. Wade?

 Red-  Illegal.
 Purple- Legal in cases of rape.
 Blue-  Legal in cases of danger to woman's health.
 Green-  Legal in cases of danger to woman's health, rape or incest, or likely damaged fetus.
 Yellow-  Legal upon request.

WTF New Jersey? Granted I guess you could just go to New York so it wasn't that big of a deal, but still weird. Also how is the South more progressive than most of the country?

Because it makes perfect sense for segregationists to support access to abortion.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Honestly, I tend to think she was taken advantage of by Sarah Weddington, who was basically just out to make a name for herself. And I say that as someone whose views would generally be regarded as pro-choice.

If the abortion rights movement had simply been content to let abortion slowly become legalized state-by-state, it would have been much harder for a cohesive pro-life movement to metastasize onto the Christian Right and create such a major backlash.

Was abortion even much of a political issue before Roe v. Wade?

 Red-  Illegal.
 Purple- Legal in cases of rape.
 Blue-  Legal in cases of danger to woman's health.
 Green-  Legal in cases of danger to woman's health, rape or incest, or likely damaged fetus.
 Yellow-  Legal upon request.

WTF New Jersey? Granted I guess you could just go to New York so it wasn't that big of a deal, but still weird. Also how is the South more progressive than most of the country?

Because it makes perfect sense for segregationists to support access to abortion.

Well, just until just 8 years before, Connecticut and Massachusetts were the two states that banned birth control. So they were certainly more socially conservative than when they became the first two states to permanently get gay marriage.

[Indy Texas]

Honestly, I tend to think she was taken advantage of by Sarah Weddington, who was basically just out to make a name for herself. And I say that as someone whose views would generally be regarded as pro-choice.

If the abortion rights movement had simply been content to let abortion slowly become legalized state-by-state, it would have been much harder for a cohesive pro-life movement to metastasize onto the Christian Right and create such a major backlash.

Was abortion even much of a political issue before Roe v. Wade?

 Red-  Illegal.
 Purple- Legal in cases of rape.
 Blue-  Legal in cases of danger to woman's health.
 Green-  Legal in cases of danger to woman's health, rape or incest, or likely damaged fetus.
 Yellow-  Legal upon request.

WTF New Jersey? Granted I guess you could just go to New York so it wasn't that big of a deal, but still weird. Also how is the South more progressive than most of the country?

The current "battle lines" on abortion did not exist in the early 1970s.

At that time, you still had a lot of Catholics in the Northeast who had a traditionalist stance on abortion (or rather, they didn't really think too much about abortion specifically, but they deferred to the Church, which opposed it). An example of this was Prescott Bush (Episcopalian Republican) getting defeated for reelection to the Senate in Connecticut in 1962 because Catholics (already Democratic-leaning) regarded him as too pro-choice/pro-birth control.

Mainline Protestants were okay with abortion and birth control, and conservative Protestants simply didn't address it (they weren't out agitating to support it, but they weren't actively opposing it). The Southern Baptist Convention didn't even take an official position on abortion until the late 1970s in response to the Roe decision.

The relatively permissive regulations in the South make sense when you consider how completely neurotic these people were about miscegenation and family honor. If their daughter was raped by a black man, they wanted to know they had the ability to "take care of the matter." Note the illegality in Catholic Louisiana, and in Tennessee and Texas with their relatively small black populations.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Honestly, I tend to think she was taken advantage of by Sarah Weddington, who was basically just out to make a name for herself. And I say that as someone whose views would generally be regarded as pro-choice.

If the abortion rights movement had simply been content to let abortion slowly become legalized state-by-state, it would have been much harder for a cohesive pro-life movement to metastasize onto the Christian Right and create such a major backlash.

Was abortion even much of a political issue before Roe v. Wade?

 Red-  Illegal.
 Purple- Legal in cases of rape.
 Blue-  Legal in cases of danger to woman's health.
 Green-  Legal in cases of danger to woman's health, rape or incest, or likely damaged fetus.
 Yellow-  Legal upon request.

WTF New Jersey? Granted I guess you could just go to New York so it wasn't that big of a deal, but still weird. Also how is the South more progressive than most of the country?

The current "battle lines" on abortion did not exist in the early 1970s.

At that time, you still had a lot of Catholics in the Northeast who had a traditionalist stance on abortion (or rather, they didn't really think too much about abortion specifically, but they deferred to the Church, which opposed it). An example of this was Prescott Bush (Episcopalian Republican) getting defeated for reelection to the Senate in Connecticut in 1962 because Catholics (already Democratic-leaning) regarded him as too pro-choice/pro-birth control.

Mainline Protestants were okay with abortion and birth control, and conservative Protestants simply didn't address it (they weren't out agitating to support it, but they weren't actively opposing it). The Southern Baptist Convention didn't even take an official position on abortion until the late 1970s in response to the Roe decision.

The relatively permissive regulations in the South make sense when you consider how completely neurotic these people were about miscegenation and family honor. If their daughter was raped by a black man, they wanted to know they had the ability to "take care of the matter." Note the illegality in Catholic Louisiana, and in Tennessee and Texas with their relatively small black populations.

Then why was it illegal in my home state and all states of the region I wonder.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Honestly, I tend to think she was taken advantage of by Sarah Weddington, who was basically just out to make a name for herself. And I say that as someone whose views would generally be regarded as pro-choice.

If the abortion rights movement had simply been content to let abortion slowly become legalized state-by-state, it would have been much harder for a cohesive pro-life movement to metastasize onto the Christian Right and create such a major backlash.

Was abortion even much of a political issue before Roe v. Wade?

 Red-  Illegal.
 Purple- Legal in cases of rape.
 Blue-  Legal in cases of danger to woman's health.
 Green-  Legal in cases of danger to woman's health, rape or incest, or likely damaged fetus.
 Yellow-  Legal upon request.

WTF New Jersey? Granted I guess you could just go to New York so it wasn't that big of a deal, but still weird. Also how is the South more progressive than most of the country?

The current "battle lines" on abortion did not exist in the early 1970s.

At that time, you still had a lot of Catholics in the Northeast who had a traditionalist stance on abortion (or rather, they didn't really think too much about abortion specifically, but they deferred to the Church, which opposed it). An example of this was Prescott Bush (Episcopalian Republican) getting defeated for reelection to the Senate in Connecticut in 1962 because Catholics (already Democratic-leaning) regarded him as too pro-choice/pro-birth control.

Mainline Protestants were okay with abortion and birth control, and conservative Protestants simply didn't address it (they weren't out agitating to support it, but they weren't actively opposing it). The Southern Baptist Convention didn't even take an official position on abortion until the late 1970s in response to the Roe decision.

The relatively permissive regulations in the South make sense when you consider how completely neurotic these people were about miscegenation and family honor. If their daughter was raped by a black man, they wanted to know they had the ability to "take care of the matter." Note the illegality in Catholic Louisiana, and in Tennessee and Texas with their relatively small black populations.

That has to be one of the most idiotic, ill informed, and biased posts I've seen here.  If you were to make a map for 1967, just six years earlier, it would have been solid red. The idea that abortion laws in the South were influenced by a desire to prevent miscegenation is ludicrous.