Should the MSP airport Charles Lindbergh Terminal be renamed?
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  Should the MSP airport Charles Lindbergh Terminal be renamed?
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Question: Should the MSP airport Charles Lindbergh Terminal be renamed?
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Author Topic: Should the MSP airport Charles Lindbergh Terminal be renamed?  (Read 3949 times)
Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2019, 05:45:12 PM »


More like an example of a villain protagonist.
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100% pro-life no matter what
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« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2019, 05:56:20 PM »

Why not just have Terminal A, B, and C like just about every other city?
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2019, 06:28:18 PM »

Ventura!

However, I don't support re-naming either of the terminals. I could give less of a damn if Lindbergh was a "nazi sympathizer", which i'm quite sure is just nu-left garbage.

Lindbergh was quite similar in his opinion of Hitler and the Nazis to that of many of today's Republicans about Trump. That he was/is uncouth and unnecessarily combative but despite using deplorable means, he was seeking the right ends.
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Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
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« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2019, 12:25:57 AM »

This thread got me to read his whole Wikipedia entry. He seems to have been a complex man, with many facets ranging from heroic to horrible. (Reading his biography reminded me of John Rabe, who had a similarly complex life.) Whether or not he deserves to have an airport terminal named after him is up to the people of Minnesota.

Were it left solely to me, I would keep the name and make certain the airport included a prominent display of his entire biography, from his racism, adultery, and Nazi sympathies to his solo Atlantic flight, civilian service in WWII and advocacy in his later life.  Unlike the various celebrations of treason and white supremacy put up during the early 20th century around the Southern United States (which ought to be removed and destroyed or put in museums that educate about racism and evil), Lindbergh really is our history, something we need to understand and learn from, so that we can do better.
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Figueira
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« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2019, 01:11:08 PM »

Ventura!

However, I don't support re-naming either of the terminals. I could give less of a damn if Lindbergh was a "nazi sympathizer", which i'm quite sure is just nu-left garbage.

What? It's been common knowledge that Lindbergh was a Nazi sympathizer since long before people started accusing leftists of calling everyone Nazis.
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HisGrace
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« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2019, 12:14:15 AM »

There's not really a major difference between Charles Lindbergh and David Duke, so I suppose you can argue it should be renamed. However, it was obviously not named after him to honor his politics.

This is the key distinction a lot of people don't grasp about things like this. The problem with Confederate monuments is that they were built to honor people specifically because they fought to defend slavery. It's not the same thing as a founding father who owned slaves but is being honored for other achievements.

Lindbergh is one of the most famous American aviators ever so it makes sense to name an American airport terminal after him.
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beaver2.0
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« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2019, 10:56:49 AM »

Renaming it after Jesse Ventura would be an incredible meme.  Especially if “the Body” is in the official name.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2019, 12:25:17 PM »

Of course they should. Look, we have a whole Hall of Fame of Minnesota aviators. Pick another!
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Fuzzy Bear
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« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2019, 02:45:55 PM »
« Edited: December 15, 2019, 02:51:47 PM by Fuzzy Bear »

I note that I opposed the renaming of this airport terminal two (2) years ago or so.  I wish to change my vote.

I had a stepdad from 7th grade through my senior year in High School.  (My Dad died when I was 10.)  He was an aircraft engineer, a native Long Islander, and his boyhood hero was Charles Lindbergh, whose famous flight commenced from Floyd Bennett Field, withing driving distance of where he grew up.  

I remember him telling me this when I asked him who his hero was.  His eyes lit up initially when he talked about Lindbergh's flight.  (My stepdad was born in 1917.)  Everyone thought it was the greatest thing.  But his mood shifted somewhat when he began to mention Lindbergh's "America First" activities, and, especially his trip to Germany, where he inspected the Luftwaffe with Adolf Hitler and later made a statement that he considered the German Air Force "invincible".  This, and the fact that he opposed entry into WWII cost him the support of many of the "Greatest Generation".  (My stepdad was a lifelong Republican, while my Mom and Grandma were lifelong Democrats who voted for McGovern, loss of status for Lindbergh was something that occurred across the political spectrum.)

It's easy to find awful statements made by Lindbergh:

Quote from: Wikipedia
In his book The American Axis, Holocaust researcher and investigative journalist Max Wallace agreed with Franklin Roosevelt's assessment that Lindbergh was "pro-Nazi". However, he found that the Roosevelt Administration's accusations of dual loyalty or treason were unsubstantiated. Wallace considered Lindbergh to be a well-intentioned but bigoted and misguided Nazi sympathizer whose career as the leader of the isolationist movement had a destructive impact on Jewish people.[181]

Lindbergh's Pulitzer Prize-winning biographer, A. Scott Berg, contended that Lindbergh was not so much a supporter of the Nazi regime as someone so stubborn in his convictions and relatively inexperienced in political maneuvering that he easily allowed rivals to portray him as one. Lindbergh's receipt of the German medal was approved without objection by the American embassy; the war had not yet begun in Europe. The award did not cause controversy until the war began and Lindbergh returned to the United States in 1939 to spread his message of nonintervention. Berg contended Lindbergh's views were commonplace in the United States in the pre–World War II era. Lindbergh's support for the America First Committee was representative of the sentiments of a number of American people.[182]

Yet Berg also noted, "As late as April 1939‍—‌after Germany overtook Czechoslovakia‍—‌Lindbergh was willing to make excuses for Hitler. 'Much as I disapprove of many things Hitler had done,' he wrote in his diary on April 2, 1939, 'I believe she [Germany] has pursued the only consistent policy in Europe in recent years. I cannot support her broken promises, but she has only moved a little faster than other nations ... in breaking promises. The question of right and wrong is one thing by law and another thing by history.'" Berg also explained that leading up to the war, in Lindbergh's mind, the great battle would be between the Soviet Union and Germany, not fascism and democracy.

Wallace noted that it was difficult to find social scientists among Lindbergh's contemporaries in the 1930s who found validity in racial explanations for human behavior. Wallace went on to observe, "throughout his life, eugenics would remain one of Lindbergh's enduring passions."[183]

Indeed, Lindbergh was a racist in the truest sense of the word.  He wished that America maintain its European heritage and ancestry, and made his share of statements decrying the mixing of the races.  One reason he preferred Germany to the USSR was that he viewed the USSR as a "semi-Asiatic" country.  He viewed Jews as a separate race, and used that term on many occasions, and he considered Jews as people who were pushing for WWII.  

Quote from: Charles Lindbergh from READERS DIGEST
We can have peace and security only so long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood, only so long as we guard ourselves against attack by foreign armies and dilution by foreign races.

I could post more about this.  Honestly, I was shocked as to how much awful stuff I found about Lindbergh in about 10 minutes of searching.  Stuff for which there is really no defense.  His aviation feats are remarkable, and they should be remembered.  And there is some defense for his anti-interventionist views.  50 million people died during WWII, and the Holocaust, an unquestioned mega-atrocity, was a product of the War, and something that may not have happened had WWII been averted (although there was Jewish persecution in Germany and in much of Europe throughout the 1930s).  That's a lot of dead people and the end of the "Good War" produced was, for many, was, in the words of JFK, "a hard and bitter peace".  But if Lindbergh was right in his isolationism, he was right for the wrong reasons, and that verdict is pretty clear.  

I don't wish to erase Lindbergh's name from every terminal and monument all at once, but I do believe that we can rename things named for him quietly and systematically.  There is much in his life that is not admirable.  He does not need to become an American Villain, but his monuments don't need to last forever.  We can read about Lindbergh in the history books.  Perhaps we ought to keep it at that.
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Progressive Pessimist
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« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2019, 07:35:25 PM »

Renaming it after Jesse Ventura would be an incredible meme.  Especially if “the Body” is in the official name.

Doesn't he call himself "The Mind" now though?
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Fuzzy Bear
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« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2019, 07:26:05 AM »

This thread got me to read his whole Wikipedia entry. He seems to have been a complex man, with many facets ranging from heroic to horrible. (Reading his biography reminded me of John Rabe, who had a similarly complex life.) Whether or not he deserves to have an airport terminal named after him is up to the people of Minnesota.

Were it left solely to me, I would keep the name and make certain the airport included a prominent display of his entire biography, from his racism, adultery, and Nazi sympathies to his solo Atlantic flight, civilian service in WWII and advocacy in his later life.  Unlike the various celebrations of treason and white supremacy put up during the early 20th century around the Southern United States (which ought to be removed and destroyed or put in museums that educate about racism and evil), Lindbergh really is our history, something we need to understand and learn from, so that we can do better.

If you do this, you'd have to include an exhibit about his environmental activism later in life.  Charles Lindberg had a major interest in preserving a number of endangered species, including humpback whales, throughout the world. 

You'd also have to show pictures and geneologies of his two (2) families in Germany that he fathered without his wife's knowledge.
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