Dems become big-time NATO supporters for some reason

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

NATO is not "a strong national defense" at all; it's just exposing America to a needless possibility of conflict, permitting other countries to rip America off, and a major contributor to world instability of every stripe. Remember, alliances were a big reason for why the First World War became a World War. Alliances, especially big multi-country ones, are inextricably meshed with militarism.

don't want to be disrespectful, even if i am talking to you pretty blunt, but you argue like someone, who wants to convince people, that only isolationism and bridge-building could ever be in the interest of the US, while russia makes the total opposite and increases its influence on a daily basis.

-Russia does not do "the total opposite" at all.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I think the alliance should be maintained (although Turkey needs to be kicked out), but that doesn't make me a big-time supporter.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

Since when is the present Russian administration a friend of Chechen militants?

since chechnya is a dictatorship so grim that even putin can't totally control it and the local warlord uses his many thugs, who are also muslims, to be used for the most gruesome pro-regime jobs of all.

if some opposition figurehead is assassinated, the victim is officially always some little guy out of chechnya......connecting the dots isn't so difficult.

-Chechna was a big trouble spot since the early 1990s, both when independent and not.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

I think the alliance should be maintained (although Turkey needs to be kicked out), but that doesn't make me a big-time supporter.

-OK, that's at least a position I can respect, since I know you're not a standard-issue Dem-party hack. Turkey's definitely one of the worst parts of NATO.

[ApatheticAustrian]

-Russia does not do "the total opposite" at all.

hey, i am respecting putin, for fighting to the bitter end, manipulating everybody like a real master chess player, using every possible choke-hold on his enemies, undermine every organization worldwide which could in any way damage his goals and being - other than donald - a real alpha-man.

a dictator's dictator who can allow himself to use humour....a feat which erdogan and trump never are able to tolerate.

but ofc he is increasing his worldwide empire of information and influence daily, not even looking back one minute or caring too much about decreasing social standards inside of russia. this is real power.

[ApatheticAustrian]

Chechna was a big trouble spot since the early 1990s, both when independent and not.

it is a trouble spot...and should have been allowed to leave the federation. a referendum would have been fine, i guess.

[ApatheticAustrian]

Turkey's definitely one of the worst parts of NATO.

russia's closest regional partner - obviously a worthy member for the eurasion union.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

-Russia does not do "the total opposite" at all.

hey, i am respecting putin, for fighting to the bitter end, manipulating everybody like a real master chess player, using every possible choke-hold on his enemies, undermine every organization worldwide which could in any way damage his goals and being - other than donald - a real alpha-man.

a dictator's dictator who can allow himself to use humour....a feat which erdogan and trump never are able to tolerate.

but ofc he is increasing his worldwide empire of information and influence daily, not even looking back one minute or caring too much about decreasing social standards inside of russia. this is real power.

-Name a "decreasing social standard inside of Russia" between 2016 and 2012, except the obvious oil-revenue-related stuff.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

Turkey's definitely one of the worst parts of NATO.

russia's closest regional partner - obviously a worthy member for the eurasion union.

-No. Turkey is very much a threat; one of the biggest state sponsors of terror out there outside the Gulf.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

Chechna was a big trouble spot since the early 1990s, both when independent and not.

it is a trouble spot...and should have been allowed to leave the federation. a referendum would have been fine, i guess.

-Chechna is a classic wolf-by-the-ear situation, very similar to Gaza. Only if a 100-foot wall is constructed around it could it ever be independent without harming Russia.

[ApatheticAustrian]

Name a "decreasing social standard inside of Russia" between 2016 and 2012, except the obvious oil-revenue-related stuff.

oh,,,,,..everything is oil-related in russia, so i guess wages, pensions and social services are off the table...otherwise the country is ofc fine.

[ApatheticAustrian]

-No. Turkey is very much a threat; one of the biggest state sponsors of terror out there outside the Gulf.

ofc it is, that's the reason russia is trying to befriend the country, putin wants a monopoly on state-sponsored terror attacks.

if we are only looking at syria, putin should hate erdogan, but since he wants to crush the EU, he doesn't care about russian lives.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

-No. Turkey is very much a threat; one of the biggest state sponsors of terror out there outside the Gulf.

ofc it is, that's the reason russia is trying to befriend the country, putin wants a monopoly on state-sponsored terror attacks.

if we are only looking at syria, putin should hate erdogan, but since he wants to crush the EU, he doesn't care about russian lives.

-The E.U. is crushing itself. If an independence referendum were held in France tomorrow, it would vote Leave. Your ideas about why Putin is trying to befriend Erdogan are baseless.

[Hindsight was 2020]

-No. Turkey is very much a threat; one of the biggest state sponsors of terror out there outside the Gulf.

ofc it is, that's the reason russia is trying to befriend the country, putin wants a monopoly on state-sponsored terror attacks.

if we are only looking at syria, putin should hate erdogan, but since he wants to crush the EU, he doesn't care about russian lives.

-The E.U. is crushing itself. If an independence referendum were held in France tomorrow, it would vote Leave. Your ideas about why Putin is trying to befriend Erdogan are baseless.

Putin has a pee tape of you doesn't he?

[ApatheticAustrian]

If an independence referendum were held in France tomorrow, it would vote Leave. Your ideas about why Putin is trying to befriend Erdogan are baseless.

"we know nothing" is the real new russian state slogan. today's propaganda is not about convincing, it's about making clear, that nobody knows anything about anything and anything is possible.

i am pretty sure, that france, especially since the brexit, is one of the most loyal EU countries in the union but you are ofc entitled to your opinion.

the most critical country, which could leave the union, would be, in my opinion, the netherlands....even hyper-critical austria is swinging hard pro-eu since the brexit....we have finally figured out who our real opponent is.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Supporting NATO is definitely the all liberal, all the time position.

[Tartarus Sauce]

I think the alliance should be maintained (although Turkey needs to be kicked out), but that doesn't make me a big-time supporter.

-OK, that's at least a position I can respect, since I know you're not a standard-issue Dem-party hack. Turkey's definitely one of the worst parts of NATO.

Uhhhh I don't think Democrats mindlessly support what's going on in Turkey right now. Just because one country in the alliance is cause for increasing concern doesn't justify throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

I think the alliance should be maintained (although Turkey needs to be kicked out), but that doesn't make me a big-time supporter.

-OK, that's at least a position I can respect, since I know you're not a standard-issue Dem-party hack. Turkey's definitely one of the worst parts of NATO.

Uhhhh I don't think Democrats mindlessly support what's going on in Turkey right now. Just because one country in the alliance is cause for increasing concern doesn't justify throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

-There is no baby there. At all. Just a bunch of blood, tears, and ruin.

[Green Line]

Turkey is bad.. and they would be much worse outside of NATO.  It's the least-bad option to keep them as close to us as possible.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

If an independence referendum were held in France tomorrow, it would vote Leave. Your ideas about why Putin is trying to befriend Erdogan are baseless.

"we know nothing" is the real new russian state slogan. today's propaganda is not about convincing, it's about making clear, that nobody knows anything about anything and anything is possible.

i am pretty sure, that france, especially since the brexit, is one of the most loyal EU countries in the union but you are ofc entitled to your opinion.

the most critical country, which could leave the union, would be, in my opinion, the netherlands....even hyper-critical austria is swinging hard pro-eu since the brexit....we have finally figured out who our real opponent is.

-Opinion polls show me to be right on France, especially in the months before Brexit. Austria's not very anti-E.U.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

Turkey is bad.. and they would be much worse outside of NATO.  It's the least-bad option to keep them as close to us as possible.

-By that logic, Russia should be part of NATO (note: I do not support this!).

[ApatheticAustrian]

erdogan is trying hard since years, to free himself of the west, against even the wishes of many politicans of his own party.

turkey is too important to just let it go....if they want to change their alliances, they need to decide it themselves.

i don't think there is any question who is financing the ISIS/al qaida in syria - putin's allies in ankara.

[ApatheticAustrian]

-By that logic, Russia should be part of NATO (note: I do not support this!).

was possible at some point, before putin and bush destroyed all chances.

[ApatheticAustrian]

-Opinion polls show me to be right on France, especially in the months before Brexit. Austria's not very anti-E.U.

more recent data:

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

erdogan is trying hard since years, to free himself of the west, against even the wishes of many politicans of his own party.

turkey is too important to just let it go....if they want to change their alliances, they need to decide it themselves.

i don't think there is any question who is financing the ISIS/al qaida in syria - putin's allies in ankara.

-They're not allies, just people tired of having their rebel forces be totally crushed by Russian-backed ones, as in Aleppo.