Are religions that use military power instead of moral authority and persuasion

[Greatest I am]

Are religions that use military power instead of moral authority and persuasion to convert us, worthy of us?

I was reading of my Gnostic Christian history, --- which grew itself without violence and with moral authority, --- and noted that both Christianity and Islam have both grown themselves through military conquest as compared to moral authority gained by persuasion.

We have had to suffer many Holy Wars, Inquisitions and jihads instead of those religions winning us over by good deeds and a better moral code.

Both Islam and Christianity say they respect Jesus and he said that we would recognize his people by their good deed, not war, so I think that Jesus would condemn both Christianity and especially Islam, given that they are both homophobic and misogynous religions who refuse to grant gays and women full equality. Christianity is slowly moving to equality while Islam is not.

Further, most religious laws have been bested by secular humanist laws, thanks to equality provisions and have already rejected the laws of those immoral Gods and their religions.

Given that violence instead of a better moral code has been used to grow Christianity and Islam, should moral people reject both Islam and Christianity as unfit to convert us to their religions?

Regards
DL

http://bigthink.com/videos/jelani-cobb-on-military-vs-moral-power-2

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Christianity went a good three centuries without the use of violence to spread the faith.  All of the conversion to Christianity in recent history has been peaceful.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

Christianity went a good three centuries without the use of violence to spread the faith.  All of the conversion to Christianity in recent history has been peaceful.

When does this "recent history" start?

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Christianity went a good three centuries without the use of violence to spread the faith.  All of the conversion to Christianity in recent history has been peaceful.

When does this "recent history" start?

Last 70 years, give or take a few years.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Is this going to be one of those threads in which everyone embarrasses themselves?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Is this going to be one of those threads in which everyone embarrasses themselves?

Nah, it's just Greatest I am being Greatest I am.

[Virginiá]

Is this going to be one of those threads in which everyone embarrasses themselves?

[Zioneer]

Are religions that use military power instead of moral authority and persuasion to convert us, worthy of us?

I was reading of my Gnostic Christian history, --- which grew itself without violence and with moral authority, --- and noted that both Christianity and Islam have both grown themselves through military conquest as compared to moral authority gained by persuasion.

We have had to suffer many Holy Wars, Inquisitions and jihads instead of those religions winning us over by good deeds and a better moral code.

Both Islam and Christianity say they respect Jesus and he said that we would recognize his people by their good deed, not war, so I think that Jesus would condemn both Christianity and especially Islam, given that they are both homophobic and misogynous religions who refuse to grant gays and women full equality. Christianity is slowly moving to equality while Islam is not.

Further, most religious laws have been bested by secular humanist laws, thanks to equality provisions and have already rejected the laws of those immoral Gods and their religions.

Given that violence instead of a better moral code has been used to grow Christianity and Islam, should moral people reject both Islam and Christianity as unfit to convert us to their religions?

Regards
DL

http://bigthink.com/videos/jelani-cobb-on-military-vs-moral-power-2

Let's be honest, if the various strands of Gnostic Christianity had gotten popular enough to be associated with imperial or monarchical power, they would have been enamored of military force just as any other faith.

[Zioneer]

Also, if I recall correctly, Gnostic groups like the Paulicans did conquer territory outside of their "homelands". I don't know if they force-converted anyone, but some Gnostics were not adverse to military force.

[Greatest I am]

Christianity went a good three centuries without the use of violence to spread the faith.  All of the conversion to Christianity in recent history has been peaceful.

So a few years of doing the right thing eliminates centuries of murder.

Ok.

Let's hope God is as forgiving as you are.

Our courts sure would not be as they prefer justice be done.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Are religions that use military power instead of moral authority and persuasion to convert us, worthy of us?

I was reading of my Gnostic Christian history, --- which grew itself without violence and with moral authority, --- and noted that both Christianity and Islam have both grown themselves through military conquest as compared to moral authority gained by persuasion.

We have had to suffer many Holy Wars, Inquisitions and jihads instead of those religions winning us over by good deeds and a better moral code.

Both Islam and Christianity say they respect Jesus and he said that we would recognize his people by their good deed, not war, so I think that Jesus would condemn both Christianity and especially Islam, given that they are both homophobic and misogynous religions who refuse to grant gays and women full equality. Christianity is slowly moving to equality while Islam is not.

Further, most religious laws have been bested by secular humanist laws, thanks to equality provisions and have already rejected the laws of those immoral Gods and their religions.

Given that violence instead of a better moral code has been used to grow Christianity and Islam, should moral people reject both Islam and Christianity as unfit to convert us to their religions?

Regards
DL

http://bigthink.com/videos/jelani-cobb-on-military-vs-moral-power-2

Let's be honest, if the various strands of Gnostic Christianity had gotten popular enough to be associated with imperial or monarchical power, they would have been enamored of military force just as any other faith.

So that excuses all the murders that Christianity and Islam are responsible for and makes them good religions. Ok.

BTW, Gnostic mystery schools where quite popular and widespread. That is why it took centuries for Christianity to reduce us to what we are today.

We are presently growing while Christianity is shrinking.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Also, if I recall correctly, Gnostic groups like the Paulicans did conquer territory outside of their "homelands". I don't know if they force-converted anyone, but some Gnostics were not adverse to military force.

We certainly did take over territory but I have yet to read an account of our using force to do so.

Please show where and when we were adverse to using military force other than when defending ourselves against Christians.

Regards
DL

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Christianity went a good three centuries without the use of violence to spread the faith.  All of the conversion to Christianity in recent history has been peaceful.

So a few years of doing the right thing eliminates centuries of murder.

Ok.

Let's hope God is as forgiving as you are.

Our courts sure would not be as they prefer justice be done.

Regards
DL

Christianity certainly has a better record than atheism, if you look at the 20th century.

Of course, I understand that the Atheist down the street has nothing to do with Joseph Stalin just like I have nothing to do with the Crusades.

[Zioneer]

Are religions that use military power instead of moral authority and persuasion to convert us, worthy of us?

I was reading of my Gnostic Christian history, --- which grew itself without violence and with moral authority, --- and noted that both Christianity and Islam have both grown themselves through military conquest as compared to moral authority gained by persuasion.

We have had to suffer many Holy Wars, Inquisitions and jihads instead of those religions winning us over by good deeds and a better moral code.

Both Islam and Christianity say they respect Jesus and he said that we would recognize his people by their good deed, not war, so I think that Jesus would condemn both Christianity and especially Islam, given that they are both homophobic and misogynous religions who refuse to grant gays and women full equality. Christianity is slowly moving to equality while Islam is not.

Further, most religious laws have been bested by secular humanist laws, thanks to equality provisions and have already rejected the laws of those immoral Gods and their religions.

Given that violence instead of a better moral code has been used to grow Christianity and Islam, should moral people reject both Islam and Christianity as unfit to convert us to their religions?

Regards
DL

http://bigthink.com/videos/jelani-cobb-on-military-vs-moral-power-2

Let's be honest, if the various strands of Gnostic Christianity had gotten popular enough to be associated with imperial or monarchical power, they would have been enamored of military force just as any other faith.

So that excuses all the murders that Christianity and Islam are responsible for and makes them good religions. Ok.

BTW, Gnostic mystery schools where quite popular and widespread. That is why it took centuries for Christianity to reduce us to what we are today.

We are presently growing while Christianity is shrinking.

Regards
DL

It doesn't excuse the murders, no, but it does mean that your Gnosticism isn't pure and innocent like you claim.

[Zioneer]

Also, if I recall correctly, Gnostic groups like the Paulicans did conquer territory outside of their "homelands". I don't know if they force-converted anyone, but some Gnostics were not adverse to military force.

We certainly did take over territory but I have yet to read an account of our using force to do so.

Please show where and when we were adverse to using military force other than when defending ourselves against Christians.

Regards
DL

Gladly! I hate to use the Wikipedia article, but...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

"devastated many cities" sounds like using force to take over, doesn't it?

[Greatest I am]

Christianity went a good three centuries without the use of violence to spread the faith.  All of the conversion to Christianity in recent history has been peaceful.

So a few years of doing the right thing eliminates centuries of murder.

Ok.

Let's hope God is as forgiving as you are.

Our courts sure would not be as they prefer justice be done.

Regards
DL

Christianity certainly has a better record than atheism, if you look at the 20th century.

Look again for the first time so that people will not just think you are lying or talking through your anal orifice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94f2h-5TvbM&feature=player_embedded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdtwTeBPYQA

Regards
DL

[Beet]

You have a good point. While previous religions used both moral authority and military power, it would be best if religion was not spread by military power, for violence and force are degrading. It is even more grotesque than the nihilistic violence of say, Genghis Khan, for it is evil cloaked in the hypocrisy of righteousness, rather than an honest domination. That being said, is Gnostic Christianity not still a form of Christianity?

(I have no right to watch videos right now)

[DC Al Fine]

You have a good point. While previous religions used both moral authority and military power, it would be best if religion was not spread by military power, for violence and force are degrading. It is even more grotesque than the nihilistic violence of say, Genghis Khan, for it is evil cloaked in the hypocrisy of righteousness, rather than an honest domination. That being said, is Gnostic Christianity not still a form of Christianity?

(I have no right to watch videos right now)

I would consider Gnosticism to have less in common with Nicene Christianity than Mormonism. Make of that what you will.

[Greatest I am]

You have a good point. While previous religions used both moral authority and military power, it would be best if religion was not spread by military power, for violence and force are degrading. It is even more grotesque than the nihilistic violence of say, Genghis Khan, for it is evil cloaked in the hypocrisy of righteousness, rather than an honest domination. That being said, is Gnostic Christianity not still a form of Christianity?

(I have no right to watch videos right now)

Gnostic Christianity is not at all like Christianity although our myths were written when no one read their scriptures literally. They, like the Christian myth are full of supernatural while Gnostic Christians do not hold any supernatural beliefs.

We are a Universalist religion that cannot abide homophobia and misogyny as they go against the notion of equality of all souls.

We also see Yahweh as a vile demiurge who always seems to kill when he could just as easily cure those he thinks defective. Especially the babies and children.

We are demonized by Christians and others who see Yahweh as a good God and not the genocidal son murdering demiurge that Gnostic Christians see.

That is basically why Christianity tried to annihilate us when Constantine gave them political power.

They too like to kill instead of converting by good arguments.

Gnostic Christianity is quite an all inclusive moral ideology as compared to the discriminations of Christianity and Islam.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

You have a good point. While previous religions used both moral authority and military power, it would be best if religion was not spread by military power, for violence and force are degrading. It is even more grotesque than the nihilistic violence of say, Genghis Khan, for it is evil cloaked in the hypocrisy of righteousness, rather than an honest domination. That being said, is Gnostic Christianity not still a form of Christianity?

(I have no right to watch videos right now)

I would consider Gnosticism to have less in common with Nicene Christianity than Mormonism. Make of that what you will.

Indeed.

Seeking wisdom through Gnosis beats going into intellectual dissonance by believing all kinds of supernatural garbage.

Regards
DL

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

You have a good point. While previous religions used both moral authority and military power, it would be best if religion was not spread by military power, for violence and force are degrading. It is even more grotesque than the nihilistic violence of say, Genghis Khan, for it is evil cloaked in the hypocrisy of righteousness, rather than an honest domination. That being said, is Gnostic Christianity not still a form of Christianity?

(I have no right to watch videos right now)

Gnostic Christianity is not at all like Christianity although our myths were written when no one read their scriptures literally. They, like the Christian myth are full of supernatural while Gnostic Christians do not hold any supernatural beliefs.

We are a Universalist religion that cannot abide homophobia and misogyny as they go against the notion of equality of all souls.

We also see Yahweh as a vile demiurge who always seems to kill when he could just as easily cure those he thinks defective. Especially the babies and children.

We are demonized by Christians and others who see Yahweh as a good God and not the genocidal son murdering demiurge that Gnostic Christians see.

That is basically why Christianity tried to annihilate us when Constantine gave them political power.

They too like to kill instead of converting by good arguments.

Gnostic Christianity is quite an all inclusive moral ideology as compared to the discriminations of Christianity and Islam.

Regards
DL

That's not "mainstream" Gnostic Christianity, it's your own personal theology and nothing more than that

[Greatest I am]

Alex

I am aware that Gnostic Christianity is not mainstream.

It should be as the morality we follow is quite superior to what the mainstream offers.

I E. We are not homophobic and misogynous and believe in full equality for all.

In fact, this Gnostic Christian believes that the law of the sea, as it pertains to putting women and children first, should be applied on land as well.

That was normal and natural in ancient days and did not even have to be articulated but it seems that today, men have forgotten where their duty lies.

Regards
DL

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

If by "we" you mean just yourself

[Greatest I am]

If by "we" you mean just yourself

No. I mean Gnostic Christians. Our creed ties equality to righteousness.

"The righteousness of God is a kind of sharing along with equality.

http://gnosis.org/library/ephip.htm

Regards
DL

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

What you call "Gnostic Christianity" is just your very own theological views and I don't think the reflect the views of many self-called Gnostic Christians