Trump writing new travel ban + more deportations

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

I give it a couple of weeks before it's struck down again.

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http://www.businessinsider.com/r-new-us-travel-ban-to-spare-green-card-holders-trump-official-2017-2

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

So will the new EO ban Muslimstravelers from overwhelmingly Muslin nations with no history of being involved in terror attacks, for fifty-nine days? Or was ninety days a made-up load of BS to begin with?

[Meclazine for Israel]

The USA is the political system that just keeps giving.

I knew Trump getting into office would be like putting chilli in the breakfast cereal.

This ban will eventually go through, maybe through Congress.

One thing I know about billionaire narcissist business types is that they go after these issues with vigour until all opposition gives up.

I am surprised Trump does not calm down and reference more correctly the other Western nations who have successful immigration reform.

Just saying "Germany and Sweden are a disaster" for letting in Syrian refugees is not a valid argument.

These refugees might be quite successful in the USA.

If Trump has a mandate to get his "proposed policies" through, then it will eventually happen.

Clearly, the seven countries mentioned are a source of terrorism during his intelligence briefings, so he has heard some information about Somalia or Yemen etc and freaked out.

Donald is not going to give up on this one.

[Crumpets]

How does he not see this is a lose-lose for him? Either it gets implemented and there is massive backlash against him and his administration, or it's shot down again and he looks like a double-loser.

[OneJ]

How does he not see this is a lose-lose for him? Either it gets implemented and there is massive backlash against him and his administration, or it's shot down again and he looks like a double-loser.

He never thinks. Ever.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Well if it doenst stop green card holders from coming why would it be struck down.

[Fusionmunster]

Well if it doenst stop green card holders from coming why would it be struck down.

Yep.
The president has some authority to regulate immigration. As long as the immigration order allows legal residents into the country and it doesnt single out muslim people, it should stand up to a court challenge.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

The content of the order shouldn't matter, what should matter is the intent: Trump is fulfilling a campaign promise to ban muslims. Any immigration-related executive order he issues that affects any muslim-majority nation should be declared unconstitutional based on obvious discriminatory intent. Furthermore, Democrats should make clear that they support impeaching President Trump. Obviously Republicans will almost certainly not bring it up for a vote, but Democrats should make clear that if given the chance to vote on impeachment, every democrat will vote in favor it, on the basis of these orders being against our nation's core values.

[President Johnson]

I can't wait to see him when courts throw a new other into the garbage again.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I can't wait to see him when courts throw a new other into the garbage again.

You may have to wait. As long as it doesn't target existing visa holders, it'll likely stand.

[The_Doctor]

I don't understand the political rationale for this and the deportations honestly. It just seems to galvanize liberal whites and minorities, and we know that Trump will lock in 35-40% of whites into the Democratic Party while guaranteeing minuscule improvement among minorities, who rightfully wonder if this Administration isn't just purely pro-white first. As whites drop in absolute numbers by 2025 an entire generation of Latinos and minorities will remember this and vote accordingly. So will a generation of liberal whites.

This seems a ideological kamikaze run to enact the alt rights vision of white America - an America that will slip away anyway.

[The_Doctor]

The Trump Administration seems custom tailored to brand Republicans as a white nationalist party devoted to the interests of a relatively narrow segment of whites. It's kind of insane.

(And the DACA people are gonna be left alone and so will everyone legally allowed to be here and they'll vote for certain. Definitely not seeing minorities embrace the Republicans anytime soon)

[Hindsight was 2020]

I don't understand the political rationale for this and the deportations honestly. It just seems to galvanize liberal whites and minorities, and we know that Trump will lock in 35-40% of whites into the Democratic Party while guaranteeing minuscule improvement among minorities, who rightfully wonder if this Administration isn't just purely pro-white first. As whites drop in absolute numbers by 2025 an entire generation of Latinos and minorities will remember this and vote accordingly. So will a generation of liberal whites.

This seems a ideological kamikaze run to enact the alt rights vision of white America - an America that will slip away anyway.

If I had to put my two cents together I've read some breitbart comment sections and I have the theory that they think that like 85-95% of Hispanics/nations here are illegal and Trumps actions will stop the demographic shifts you mention 

[The_Doctor]

I don't understand the political rationale for this and the deportations honestly. It just seems to galvanize liberal whites and minorities, and we know that Trump will lock in 35-40% of whites into the Democratic Party while guaranteeing minuscule improvement among minorities, who rightfully wonder if this Administration isn't just purely pro-white first. As whites drop in absolute numbers by 2025 an entire generation of Latinos and minorities will remember this and vote accordingly. So will a generation of liberal whites.

This seems a ideological kamikaze run to enact the alt rights vision of white America - an America that will slip away anyway.

If I had to put my two cents together I've read some breitbart comment sections and I have the theory that they think that like 85-95% of Hispanics/nations here are illegal and Trumps actions will stop the demographic shifts you mention  

Between 2/3 and 3/4 of all Mexican Americans are legal, numbering some 34 million. That's not even mentioning other Latino groups. Their median age is also ridiculously young. I think it's between 25 and 35.

Also babies born today are more minority than white. That happened in 2011.

[Hindsight was 2020]

I don't understand the political rationale for this and the deportations honestly. It just seems to galvanize liberal whites and minorities, and we know that Trump will lock in 35-40% of whites into the Democratic Party while guaranteeing minuscule improvement among minorities, who rightfully wonder if this Administration isn't just purely pro-white first. As whites drop in absolute numbers by 2025 an entire generation of Latinos and minorities will remember this and vote accordingly. So will a generation of liberal whites.

This seems a ideological kamikaze run to enact the alt rights vision of white America - an America that will slip away anyway.

If I had to put my two cents together I've read some breitbart comment sections and I have the theory that they think that like 85-95% of Hispanics/nations here are illegal and Trumps actions will stop the demographic shifts you mention  

Between 2/3 and 3/4 of all Mexican Americans are legal, numbering some 34 million. That's not even mentioning other Latino groups. Their median age is also ridiculously young.

I know but these are people who think Sweden is Europe's rape capital so yeah facts don't get along well with them

[Calthrina950]

It seems like this order may not have some of the same issues as the previous one. I think the administration (and Trump) have recognized the mistakes that were made in regards to the drafting and implementation of the earlier order, and are striving to correct them. Personally, I think that these moves (refugee review, actions against illegal immigrants) are both moves in the right direction. We have to get our immigration system in order, we must maintain the integrity of our borders and our laws, and we must keep this country safe from external threats, either from terrorists or from criminal aliens.

[Hindsight was 2020]

It seems like this order may not have some of the same issues as the previous one. I think the administration (and Trump) have recognized the mistakes that were made in regards to the drafting and implementation of the earlier order, and are striving to correct them. Personally, I think that these moves (refugee review, actions against illegal immigrants) are both moves in the right direction. We have to get our immigration system in order, we must maintain the integrity of our borders and our laws, and we must keep this country safe from external threats, either from terrorists or from criminal aliens.

Except we already were illegals are near the bottom in violent crime and if anyone tells me that our airports are lax I have pent up rage from ungodly waits at JFK to unleash on you

[The_Doctor]

It seems like this order may not have some of the same issues as the previous one. I think the administration (and Trump) have recognized the mistakes that were made in regards to the drafting and implementation of the earlier order, and are striving to correct them. Personally, I think that these moves (refugee review, actions against illegal immigrants) are both moves in the right direction. We have to get our immigration system in order, we must maintain the integrity of our borders and our laws, and we must keep this country safe from external threats, either from terrorists or from criminal aliens.

Except we already were illegals are near the bottom in violent crime and if anyone tells me that our airports are lax I have pent up rage from ungodly waits at JFK to unleash on you

Also since 2001 there hasn't been a major attack on American soil. There's been small and scary episodes (2009, 2015) but by and large we've done a really good job on terrorism prevention at home.

[Calthrina950]

It seems like this order may not have some of the same issues as the previous one. I think the administration (and Trump) have recognized the mistakes that were made in regards to the drafting and implementation of the earlier order, and are striving to correct them. Personally, I think that these moves (refugee review, actions against illegal immigrants) are both moves in the right direction. We have to get our immigration system in order, we must maintain the integrity of our borders and our laws, and we must keep this country safe from external threats, either from terrorists or from criminal aliens.

Except we already were illegals are near the bottom in violent crime and if anyone tells me that our airports are lax I have pent up rage from ungodly waits at JFK to unleash on you

But illegal immigrants exacerbate the situation, putting an additional burden upon our law enforcement. In my opinion, since they did not go through the legal processes to get into this country, they should not be. Their being here discounts all of the legitimate efforts of legal immigrants to get here and to make something of themselves.

[Tintrlvr]

It seems like this order may not have some of the same issues as the previous one. I think the administration (and Trump) have recognized the mistakes that were made in regards to the drafting and implementation of the earlier order, and are striving to correct them. Personally, I think that these moves (refugee review, actions against illegal immigrants) are both moves in the right direction. We have to get our immigration system in order, we must maintain the integrity of our borders and our laws, and we must keep this country safe from external threats, either from terrorists or from criminal aliens.

Except we already were illegals are near the bottom in violent crime and if anyone tells me that our airports are lax I have pent up rage from ungodly waits at JFK to unleash on you

But illegal immigrants exacerbate the situation, putting an additional burden upon our law enforcement. In my opinion, since they did not go through the legal processes to get into this country, they should not be. Their being here discounts all of the legitimate efforts of legal immigrants to get here and to make something of themselves.

They're only on a burden on law enforcement if you have law enforcement waste a bunch of time, effort and money searching for productive members of society to deport instead of dealing with real criminals.

Anyway, there's pretty much no way to write the executive order such that it applies only to certain countries that would survive the tests set forth in the various iterations of Washington v. Trump. This may be a case of bad facts making bad law (the initial EO was so outrageous that courts made legal rulings that they might not have done had the initial EO been better), but that is neither here nor there. I can't see anything the administration releases that bears any resemblance to a halt on entries  from only certain countries or that has even the tiniest whiff of a religious test (which could be as simple as only relating to Muslim countries, or some new attempt to preference/exempt religious minorities) surviving.

[Calthrina950]

It seems like this order may not have some of the same issues as the previous one. I think the administration (and Trump) have recognized the mistakes that were made in regards to the drafting and implementation of the earlier order, and are striving to correct them. Personally, I think that these moves (refugee review, actions against illegal immigrants) are both moves in the right direction. We have to get our immigration system in order, we must maintain the integrity of our borders and our laws, and we must keep this country safe from external threats, either from terrorists or from criminal aliens.

Except we already were illegals are near the bottom in violent crime and if anyone tells me that our airports are lax I have pent up rage from ungodly waits at JFK to unleash on you

But illegal immigrants exacerbate the situation, putting an additional burden upon our law enforcement. In my opinion, since they did not go through the legal processes to get into this country, they should not be. Their being here discounts all of the legitimate efforts of legal immigrants to get here and to make something of themselves.

They're only on a burden on law enforcement if you have law enforcement waste a bunch of time, effort and money searching for productive members of society to deport instead of dealing with real criminals.

Productive members of society? Illegal immigrants are criminals; they violated the law in the first place by being here illegally. Second, many of them have committed other criminal offenses (i.e. identity theft, murder, sex trafficking, drug trafficking, etc.) and need to be removed for it. No one who has broken the law to get here should be allowed to stay.

[The_Doctor]

It seems like this order may not have some of the same issues as the previous one. I think the administration (and Trump) have recognized the mistakes that were made in regards to the drafting and implementation of the earlier order, and are striving to correct them. Personally, I think that these moves (refugee review, actions against illegal immigrants) are both moves in the right direction. We have to get our immigration system in order, we must maintain the integrity of our borders and our laws, and we must keep this country safe from external threats, either from terrorists or from criminal aliens.

Except we already were illegals are near the bottom in violent crime and if anyone tells me that our airports are lax I have pent up rage from ungodly waits at JFK to unleash on you

But illegal immigrants exacerbate the situation, putting an additional burden upon our law enforcement. In my opinion, since they did not go through the legal processes to get into this country, they should not be. Their being here discounts all of the legitimate efforts of legal immigrants to get here and to make something of themselves.

They're only on a burden on law enforcement if you have law enforcement waste a bunch of time, effort and money searching for productive members of society to deport instead of dealing with real criminals.

Productive members of society? Illegal immigrants are criminals; they violated the law in the first place by being here illegally. Second, many of them have committed other criminal offenses (i.e. identity theft, murder, sex trafficking, drug trafficking, etc.) and need to be removed for it. No one who has broken the law to get here should be allowed to stay.

What are the statistics of illegal immigrants committing crimes? Legitimately asking.

I do agree they strain the safety net (e.g Emergency rooms, health care etc) but what's your reference and source here?

[Tintrlvr]

It seems like this order may not have some of the same issues as the previous one. I think the administration (and Trump) have recognized the mistakes that were made in regards to the drafting and implementation of the earlier order, and are striving to correct them. Personally, I think that these moves (refugee review, actions against illegal immigrants) are both moves in the right direction. We have to get our immigration system in order, we must maintain the integrity of our borders and our laws, and we must keep this country safe from external threats, either from terrorists or from criminal aliens.

Except we already were illegals are near the bottom in violent crime and if anyone tells me that our airports are lax I have pent up rage from ungodly waits at JFK to unleash on you

But illegal immigrants exacerbate the situation, putting an additional burden upon our law enforcement. In my opinion, since they did not go through the legal processes to get into this country, they should not be. Their being here discounts all of the legitimate efforts of legal immigrants to get here and to make something of themselves.

They're only on a burden on law enforcement if you have law enforcement waste a bunch of time, effort and money searching for productive members of society to deport instead of dealing with real criminals.

Productive members of society? Illegal immigrants are criminals; they violated the law in the first place by being here illegally. Second, many of them have committed other criminal offenses (i.e. identity theft, murder, sex trafficking, drug trafficking, etc.) and need to be removed for it. No one who has broken the law to get here should be allowed to stay.

1. "Criminals" can be productive members of society in any case, and illegally crossing the border is a victimless crime (does not harm society), no worse than smoking marijuana. Should a major focus of law enforcement be rounding up and incarcerating (or perhaps deporting!) marijuana smokers?

2. Most "illegal immigrants" overstay their legally obtained visas rather than illegally crossing the border. It is literally not a crime to overstay a visa.

3. "Many" is nothing short of a total and complete lie, but in any case I am not contesting that those who have committed murder, etc. should be deported. Those crimes are investigated just as if the perpetrator were legally present in the U.S., with the ultimate penalty being deportation after incarceration. They are a tiny minority.

[Calthrina950]

It seems like this order may not have some of the same issues as the previous one. I think the administration (and Trump) have recognized the mistakes that were made in regards to the drafting and implementation of the earlier order, and are striving to correct them. Personally, I think that these moves (refugee review, actions against illegal immigrants) are both moves in the right direction. We have to get our immigration system in order, we must maintain the integrity of our borders and our laws, and we must keep this country safe from external threats, either from terrorists or from criminal aliens.

Except we already were illegals are near the bottom in violent crime and if anyone tells me that our airports are lax I have pent up rage from ungodly waits at JFK to unleash on you

But illegal immigrants exacerbate the situation, putting an additional burden upon our law enforcement. In my opinion, since they did not go through the legal processes to get into this country, they should not be. Their being here discounts all of the legitimate efforts of legal immigrants to get here and to make something of themselves.

They're only on a burden on law enforcement if you have law enforcement waste a bunch of time, effort and money searching for productive members of society to deport instead of dealing with real criminals.

Productive members of society? Illegal immigrants are criminals; they violated the law in the first place by being here illegally. Second, many of them have committed other criminal offenses (i.e. identity theft, murder, sex trafficking, drug trafficking, etc.) and need to be removed for it. No one who has broken the law to get here should be allowed to stay.

1. "Criminals" can be productive members of society in any case, and illegally crossing the border is a victimless crime (does not harm society), no worse than smoking marijuana. Should a major focus of law enforcement be rounding up and incarcerating (or perhaps deporting!) marijuana smokers?

2. Most "illegal immigrants" overstay their legally obtained visas rather than illegally crossing the border. It is literally not a crime to overstay a visa.

3. "Many" is nothing short of a total and complete lie, but in any case I am not contesting that those who have committed murder, etc. should be deported. Those crimes are investigated just as if the perpetrator were legally present in the U.S., with the ultimate penalty being deportation after incarceration. They are a tiny minority.

You're still not getting my point. I am saying that people who willfully abuse our immigration laws and remain in this country without permission must be removed. Of course, it is most practical to focus on the criminal elements, and on those who have arrived recently. But my preference would be to see all those violating our immigration laws gone. A nation cannot exist if it cannot enforce its laws and maintain its borders. Enough with the amnesties, the welfare benefits, the "DACA" programs, and all of that nonsense. The letter of the law says that any person here illegally must be gone.