Your feelings on Perez as DNC Chair, Ellison as Deputy Chair?
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  Your feelings on Perez as DNC Chair, Ellison as Deputy Chair?
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Poll
Question: Your feelings on Perez as DNC Chair, Ellison as Deputy Chair?
#1
I'm a Democrat - great!
#2
I'm a Democrat - good, not 1st choice but seems a good guy
#3
I'm a Democrat - tolerable
#4
I'm a Democrat - dislike
#5
I'm a Democrat - PEREZ WILL MURDER US ALL
#6
I'm an Independent - great!
#7
I'm an Independent - good, not 1st choice but seems a good guy
#8
I'm an Independent - tolerable
#9
I'm an Independent - dislike
#10
I'm an Independent - PEREZ WILL MURDER US ALL
#11
I'm 3rd Party - great!
#12
I'm 3rd Party - good, not 1st choice but seems a good guy
#13
I'm 3rd Party - tolerable
#14
I'm 3rd Party - dislike
#15
I'm 3rd Party - PEREZ WILL MURDER US ALL
#16
I'm Not American - great!
#17
I'm Not American -  good, not 1st choice but seems a good guy
#18
I'm Not American - tolerable
#19
I'm Not American - dislike
#20
I'm Not American - PEREZ WILL MURDER US ALL
#21
I'm American but usually don't vote - great!
#22
I'm American but usually don't vote -  good, not 1st choice but seems a good guy
#23
I'm American but usually don't vote - tolerable
#24
I'm American but usually don't vote - dislike
#25
I'm American but usually don't vote - PEREZ WILL MURDER US ALL
#26
I'm Republican - great!
#27
I'm Republican -  good, not 1st choice but seems a good guy
#28
I'm Republican - tolerable
#29
I'm Republican - dislike
#30
I'm Republican - PEREZ WILL MURDER US ALL
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Partisan results


Author Topic: Your feelings on Perez as DNC Chair, Ellison as Deputy Chair?  (Read 10095 times)
Crumpets
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« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2017, 04:52:32 PM »

Option 2
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Pyro
PyroTheFox
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« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2017, 04:53:21 PM »

Democrats staying the course per usual.
Establishment manufactured a proxy war and forced a win, what the donors say goes.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2017, 04:54:30 PM »

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

But I ask you this- what do you want?
Do you just want people you consider allies to win, no matter what? That's not how democracy works. In a democracy, you need to get the most votes. If you want to win, you need to win. Win primaries, win conventions, win elections. In 2016, you didn't win. Because Hillary got more votes. As simple as that. In the Party Chair elections, you lost narrowly. Because Perez got more votes. What the hell is wrong with that? It's democracy.

I don't believe Antonio ever considered Hillary's nomination as "undemocratic". He just believes, and I wholeheartedly agree, there were better options and the party should get the memo. Same goes for Perez.

I only hope Perez can surprise us like Dean (as there were a lot of doubts when he became chair in 2005).
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Frodo
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« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2017, 04:55:09 PM »

Option 2 -like any loyal Democrat I will give Tom Perez the benefit of the doubt even though I would have preferred Keith Ellison as DNC Chair.  
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2017, 04:55:20 PM »

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

But I ask you this- what do you want?
Do you just want people you consider allies to win, no matter what? That's not how democracy works. In a democracy, you need to get the most votes. If you want to win, you need to win. Win primaries, win conventions, win elections. In 2016, you didn't win. Because Hillary got more votes. As simple as that. In the Party Chair elections, you lost narrowly. Because Perez got more votes. What the hell is wrong with that? It's democracy.

A vast majority of Democrats outside of the Betlway bubble supported Ellison. If the vote was actually put up to the membership (as it is in any decent party) he would have won easily. But the Establishment doesn't give a sh*t about that because it holds the base in utter contempt. Spare me your lectures about democracy.
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DrScholl
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« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2017, 04:56:27 PM »

You all need to let go of politics, because some of these posts are overreactions. The DNC Chair is a tactical position that is supposed to make sure that the party has decent infrastructure to win elections. Trying to re-fight the primary is pointless, because it's a dead issue. The far-left is as insane as the Trump people.
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Green Line
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« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2017, 04:57:32 PM »

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

Learn what?  She got more votes.  How many did Bernie get?

1. 3 months ago refeers to the general election, not primaries.
2. And it doesn't matter. Trump is President because Hillary blew a winnable race. I mean come on, man, she lost by a hair to somebody who committed every political sin there's in the book and was written off by almost everybody as unelectable.

She won more votes in the general.  The people are not rejecting neoliberalism.
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America Needs R'hllor
Parrotguy
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« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2017, 04:57:50 PM »

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

But I ask you this- what do you want?
Do you just want people you consider allies to win, no matter what? That's not how democracy works. In a democracy, you need to get the most votes. If you want to win, you need to win. Win primaries, win conventions, win elections. In 2016, you didn't win. Because Hillary got more votes. As simple as that. In the Party Chair elections, you lost narrowly. Because Perez got more votes. What the hell is wrong with that? It's democracy.

A vast majority of Democrats outside of the Betlway bubble supported Ellison. If the vote was actually put up to the membership (as it is in any decent party) he would have won easily. But the Establishment doesn't give a sh*t about that because it holds the base in utter contempt. Spare me your lectures about democracy.

But that's the process in both parties for many years. You knew it's the process. So yeah, you lost in that process. You have a right to be sour, but threatening to burn everything is just immature and counter-productive.
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DrScholl
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« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2017, 04:58:38 PM »

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

Learn what?  She got more votes.  How many did Bernie get?

1. 3 months ago refeers to the general election, not primaries.
2. And it doesn't matter. Trump is President because Hillary blew a winnable race. I mean come on, man, she lost by a hair to somebody who committed every political sin there's in the book and was written off by almost everybody as unelectable.

She won more votes in the general.  The people are not rejecting neoliberalism.

Furthermore, most normal voters don't even use words like "neoliberalism" or even think about it. The far-left thinks everyone thinks like them, but they are wrong.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2017, 04:58:50 PM »
« Edited: February 25, 2017, 05:00:39 PM by Maxwell »

I don't think it's a good idea to turn every primary battle within the party into a proxy fight for the soul of the party. That being said, I do agree with others who view this as a bad sign of Democrats haven't learned the very necessary lessons of 2016.

It just strikes me as odd to blame Hillary for Perez considering her people were largely split while Obama was the major force pushing Perez. I suppose that fits in with "The Establishment", but still. I suppose Hillary's an easier target though.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2017, 04:59:32 PM »

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

But I ask you this- what do you want?
Do you just want people you consider allies to win, no matter what? That's not how democracy works. In a democracy, you need to get the most votes. If you want to win, you need to win. Win primaries, win conventions, win elections. In 2016, you didn't win. Because Hillary got more votes. As simple as that. In the Party Chair elections, you lost narrowly. Because Perez got more votes. What the hell is wrong with that? It's democracy.

A vast majority of Democrats outside of the Betlway bubble supported Ellison. If the vote was actually put up to the membership (as it is in any decent party) he would have won easily. But the Establishment doesn't give a sh*t about that because it holds the base in utter contempt. Spare me your lectures about democracy.

But that's the process in both parties for many years. You knew it's the process. So yeah, you lost in that process. You have a right to be sour, but threatening to burn everything is just immature and counter-productive.

Who cares? The "process" is illegitimate.
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Frodo
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« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2017, 05:00:30 PM »

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

But I ask you this- what do you want?
Do you just want people you consider allies to win, no matter what? That's not how democracy works. In a democracy, you need to get the most votes. If you want to win, you need to win. Win primaries, win conventions, win elections. In 2016, you didn't win. Because Hillary got more votes. As simple as that. In the Party Chair elections, you lost narrowly. Because Perez got more votes. What the hell is wrong with that? It's democracy.

A vast majority of Democrats outside of the Betlway bubble supported Ellison. If the vote was actually put up to the membership (as it is in any decent party) he would have won easily. But the Establishment doesn't give a sh*t about that because it holds the base in utter contempt. Spare me your lectures about democracy.

But that's the process in both parties for many years. You knew it's the process. So yeah, you lost in that process. You have a right to be sour, but threatening to burn everything is just immature and counter-productive.

Who cares? The "process" is illegitimate.

If so, then why be so emotionally invested in it? 
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Sumner 1868
tara gilesbie
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« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2017, 05:00:39 PM »

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

Learn what?  She got more votes.  How many did Bernie get?

1. 3 months ago refeers to the general election, not primaries.
2. And it doesn't matter. Trump is President because Hillary blew a winnable race. I mean come on, man, she lost by a hair to somebody who committed every political sin there's in the book and was written off by almost everybody as unelectable.

She won more votes in the general.  The people are not rejecting neoliberalism.
I doubt a majority of her voters support neoliberalism.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2017, 05:02:06 PM »

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

But I ask you this- what do you want?
Do you just want people you consider allies to win, no matter what? That's not how democracy works. In a democracy, you need to get the most votes. If you want to win, you need to win. Win primaries, win conventions, win elections. In 2016, you didn't win. Because Hillary got more votes. As simple as that. In the Party Chair elections, you lost narrowly. Because Perez got more votes. What the hell is wrong with that? It's democracy.

A vast majority of Democrats outside of the Betlway bubble supported Ellison. If the vote was actually put up to the membership (as it is in any decent party) he would have won easily. But the Establishment doesn't give a sh*t about that because it holds the base in utter contempt. Spare me your lectures about democracy.

But that's the process in both parties for many years. You knew it's the process. So yeah, you lost in that process. You have a right to be sour, but threatening to burn everything is just immature and counter-productive.

Who cares? The "process" is illegitimate.

If so, then why be so emotionally invested in it? 

Because I want the Democratic party to actually start representing the needs and concerns of normal, working-class American, and not just consulting firms and hip, shallow suburbanites. Because it would be nice if at least one of the two parties did that.
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DrScholl
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« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2017, 05:03:01 PM »

Trump won the election because he made false promises and promised jobs that can never be brought back. His winning had everything to do with demagoguery and little to do with Democrats not being liberal enough.
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jojoju1998
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« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2017, 05:04:19 PM »

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

But I ask you this- what do you want?
Do you just want people you consider allies to win, no matter what? That's not how democracy works. In a democracy, you need to get the most votes. If you want to win, you need to win. Win primaries, win conventions, win elections. In 2016, you didn't win. Because Hillary got more votes. As simple as that. In the Party Chair elections, you lost narrowly. Because Perez got more votes. What the hell is wrong with that? It's democracy.

A vast majority of Democrats outside of the Betlway bubble supported Ellison. If the vote was actually put up to the membership (as it is in any decent party) he would have won easily. But the Establishment doesn't give a sh*t about that because it holds the base in utter contempt. Spare me your lectures about democracy.

But that's the process in both parties for many years. You knew it's the process. So yeah, you lost in that process. You have a right to be sour, but threatening to burn everything is just immature and counter-productive.

Who cares? The "process" is illegitimate.

If so, then why be so emotionally invested in it? 

Because I want the Democratic party to actually start representing the needs and concerns of normal, working-class American, and not just consulting firms and hip, shallow suburbanites. Because it would be nice if at least one of the two parties did that.
Then Vote !
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2017, 05:04:51 PM »

Trump won the election because he made false promises and promised jobs that can never be brought back. His winning had everything to do with demagoguery and little to do with Democrats not being liberal enough.

T***p won because he promised something other than the continued status quo where the working class keeps getting the shaft at every turn. Which naturally made him a better candidate than Ms. "America is already great!" Smiley Smiley Smiley
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Frodo
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« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2017, 05:06:02 PM »

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

But I ask you this- what do you want?
Do you just want people you consider allies to win, no matter what? That's not how democracy works. In a democracy, you need to get the most votes. If you want to win, you need to win. Win primaries, win conventions, win elections. In 2016, you didn't win. Because Hillary got more votes. As simple as that. In the Party Chair elections, you lost narrowly. Because Perez got more votes. What the hell is wrong with that? It's democracy.

A vast majority of Democrats outside of the Betlway bubble supported Ellison. If the vote was actually put up to the membership (as it is in any decent party) he would have won easily. But the Establishment doesn't give a sh*t about that because it holds the base in utter contempt. Spare me your lectures about democracy.

But that's the process in both parties for many years. You knew it's the process. So yeah, you lost in that process. You have a right to be sour, but threatening to burn everything is just immature and counter-productive.

Who cares? The "process" is illegitimate.

If so, then why be so emotionally invested in it? 

Because I want the Democratic party to actually start representing the needs and concerns of normal, working-class American, and not just consulting firms and hip, shallow suburbanites.

If you knew the process of electing the DNC chair to be 'illegitimate' (and therefore rigged and foreordained), then why expect a different result?  
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Green Line
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« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2017, 05:07:13 PM »

Trump won the election because he made false promises and promised jobs that can never be brought back. His winning had everything to do with demagoguery and little to do with Democrats not being liberal enough.

T***p won because he promised something other than the continued status quo where the working class keeps getting the shaft at every turn. Which naturally made him a better candidate than Ms. "America is already great!" Smiley Smiley Smiley

She was hopeful and optimistic.  Seems like you preferred a campaign of anger and fear.
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jojoju1998
1970vu
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« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2017, 05:08:47 PM »

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

Learn what?  She got more votes.  How many did Bernie get?

1. 3 months ago refeers to the general election, not primaries.
2. And it doesn't matter. Trump is President because Hillary blew a winnable race. I mean come on, man, she lost by a hair to somebody who committed every political sin there's in the book and was written off by almost everybody as unelectable.

She won more votes in the general.  The people are not rejecting neoliberalism.
I doubt a majority of her voters support neoliberalism.

Actually most of Americans don't. What happened is this......

Actually TD and Technocratic Timmy explained this better.

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=251989.0
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=259090.0

As you can read, thanks to America's Two Party System, It is pretty hard to get change through.
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« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2017, 05:09:00 PM »


You seem to think the office of DNC Chair has near a thousand times as much power as it actually does.
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DrScholl
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« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2017, 05:09:18 PM »

Trump won the election because he made false promises and promised jobs that can never be brought back. His winning had everything to do with demagoguery and little to do with Democrats not being liberal enough.

T***p won because he promised something other than the continued status quo where the working class keeps getting the shaft at every turn. Which naturally made him a better candidate than Ms. "America is already great!" Smiley Smiley Smiley

And he's doing just the opposite, so what good came of electing him?
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2017, 05:10:03 PM »

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

But I ask you this- what do you want?
Do you just want people you consider allies to win, no matter what? That's not how democracy works. In a democracy, you need to get the most votes. If you want to win, you need to win. Win primaries, win conventions, win elections. In 2016, you didn't win. Because Hillary got more votes. As simple as that. In the Party Chair elections, you lost narrowly. Because Perez got more votes. What the hell is wrong with that? It's democracy.

A vast majority of Democrats outside of the Betlway bubble supported Ellison. If the vote was actually put up to the membership (as it is in any decent party) he would have won easily. But the Establishment doesn't give a sh*t about that because it holds the base in utter contempt. Spare me your lectures about democracy.

But that's the process in both parties for many years. You knew it's the process. So yeah, you lost in that process. You have a right to be sour, but threatening to burn everything is just immature and counter-productive.

Who cares? The "process" is illegitimate.

If so, then why be so emotionally invested in it? 

Because I want the Democratic party to actually start representing the needs and concerns of normal, working-class American, and not just consulting firms and hip, shallow suburbanites.

If you knew the process of electing the DNC chair to be 'illegitimate' (and therefore rigged and foreordained), then why expect a different result? 

Because I hoped that the Establishment that controls the process was at least willing to compromise with the base on this (relatively inconsequential) choice. The fact that they didn't signals that they don't give a sh*t what the base want, and will always throw their full might against it.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2017, 05:11:05 PM »


You seem to think the office of DNC Chair has near a thousand times as much power as it actually does.

The office of DNC chair is not the real issue here. See my post above.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2017, 05:15:10 PM »

Is it too much to ask neoliberal Democratic hacks to actually learn anything from their embarrassing defeat 3 months ago?

I'm not asking them to change their minds (it's not like Ellison was a socialist, after all) but just to stop thinking the party is their property.

But I ask you this- what do you want?
Do you just want people you consider allies to win, no matter what? That's not how democracy works. In a democracy, you need to get the most votes. If you want to win, you need to win. Win primaries, win conventions, win elections. In 2016, you didn't win. Because Hillary got more votes. As simple as that. In the Party Chair elections, you lost narrowly. Because Perez got more votes. What the hell is wrong with that? It's democracy.

A vast majority of Democrats outside of the Betlway bubble supported Ellison. If the vote was actually put up to the membership (as it is in any decent party) he would have won easily. But the Establishment doesn't give a sh*t about that because it holds the base in utter contempt. Spare me your lectures about democracy.

But that's the process in both parties for many years. You knew it's the process. So yeah, you lost in that process. You have a right to be sour, but threatening to burn everything is just immature and counter-productive.

Really, so tell me how it worked out for the Cantors of the world who followed the process against those angry Tea Partiers? How did it work out for those like Dick Lugar and Bob Bennett instead of people like Mitch McConnell or Ted Cruz?...I thought so.

Trump won the election because he made false promises and promised jobs that can never be brought back. His winning had everything to do with demagoguery and little to do with Democrats not being liberal enough.

No, it clearly was because they weren't.  Youth turnout would've easily kept up, and certainly wouldn't have switched to Trump in Minnesota if they had just gone a bit more left...and genuinely so. Minority turnout would've been better too.
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