Your feelings on Perez as DNC Chair, Ellison as Deputy Chair?

[ApatheticAustrian]

obama didn't "alienate" he just never did care much for down-ballot stuff.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

I mean if you define the 'Progressive Wing' to be Obama loyalists, maybe.

Like actually, I think that's the problem here. There are three generations within the party working themselves out; Clinton loyalists, Obama loyalists, and Bernie loyalists. Obama folks think they're the bleeding edge of the party, but in truth they've alienated a lot of people in labor, environmental groups, etc etc. over the past 8 years in Washington.

Obama is, by far, the most popular Democratic politician. There's no evidence that he's alienated a lot of progressives.

I mean, there was a Presidential primary where his chosen successor only drew 55% of the popular vote. AFTER she was established to be the inevitable winner.

You're delusional if you think a significant portion of Sanders supporters supported him because they didn't like Barack Obama. And of those who did, most were right-wing fake Democrats in the South and Appalachia.

I'm talking about the population of activists that staff campaigns, bro.

No? You were talking about the primary electorate...

Check the edit.

[Chief Justice Keef]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

Haha get the f outta here with that crap

If Tom Perez really was a strong progressive why did he run against Leader of the Congressional Progressive Caucus Keith Ellison?

Uh, because he thought he'd do a better job? It's an election dude. Sorry Ellison didn't get his coronation just because he was the first to announce.

Lol, no he didn't. He ran because Obama and his consultant buddies were afraid of getting a REAL progressive in the DNC that would cut their corporate cash flow.

And if it's about who can do "a better job" than I could probably do a better job at running the DNC than any of the 235 people who voted for Perez.

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

Haha get the f outta here with that crap

If Tom Perez really was a strong progressive why did he run against Leader of the Congressional Progressive Caucus Keith Ellison?

Perhaps he was concerned that Keith Ellison being a Muslim might adversely impact the party's ability to reach out to voters.  Not everything needs to be seen through the context of a conspiracy.

Ellison's religion wasn't an issue until Haim Saban and all of those other dickless mega-donors made it one.

And if Obama really thought that then he should remember how all those conservatives who were utterly convinced he was a Muslim didn't make a difference in the elections he ran in and won.

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

I mean if you define the 'Progressive Wing' to be Obama loyalists, maybe.

Like actually, I think that's the problem here. There are three generations within the party working themselves out; Clinton loyalists, Obama loyalists, and Bernie loyalists. Obama folks think they're the bleeding edge of the party, but in truth they've alienated a lot of people in labor, environmental groups, etc etc. over the past 8 years in Washington.

Obama is, by far, the most popular Democratic politician. There's no evidence that he's alienated a lot of progressives.

Yeah, all those progressives in organizations like DSA are really clutching on to the pearls of the Obama legacy.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I was quite upset by the outcome of this, despite buying a little into the fear that the right would turn Ellison into a boogeyman.  I saw this as a proxy battle for something bigger than the actual position of DNC chair.

Foucaulf pointed out, however, that real change has to come from the bottom.  Democrats always want the easy way for change.. just install some token figurehead at the top and hope everything falls into line.  That's not how it works.

In order to affect change and prevent disasters like 2016 for the Democratic party, we just have to put our heads down and get on slogging.  And keep on eye on Perez, of course.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

I was quite upset by the outcome of this, despite buying a little into the fear that the right would turn Ellison into a boogeyman.  I saw this as a proxy battle for something bigger than the actual position of DNC chair.

Foucaulf pointed out, however, that real change has to come from the bottom.  Democrats always want the easy way for change.. just install some token figurehead at the top and hope everything falls into line.  That's not how it works.

In order to affect change and prevent disasters like 2016 for the Democratic party, we just have to put our heads down and get on slogging.  And keep on eye on Perez, of course.

Of course. I don't think anyone in this thread is suggesting anything different.

[Chief Justice Keef]

I gotta say, liberals like Lief are much better at fighting those on the left then they are at fighting the right.

I was quite upset by the outcome of this, despite buying a little into the fear that the right would turn Ellison into a boogeyman.  I saw this as a proxy battle for something bigger than the actual position of DNC chair.

Foucaulf pointed out, however, that real change has to come from the bottom.  Democrats always want the easy way for change.. just install some token figurehead at the top and hope everything falls into line.  That's not how it works.

In order to affect change and prevent disasters like 2016 for the Democratic party, we just have to put our heads down and get on slogging.  And keep on eye on Perez, of course.

Yeah, I have to agree there. Even if Ellison had won it's not like the fight would've stopped. I think in order to get real change from within the party it needs to start at the local level and come from the bottom up, not trickle down from the top level.

[ApatheticAustrian]

if you are able to win seats on a local level now occupied by republicans, you are able to build.

if you are trying to wrestle the most liberal seats from more centrist democrats....you aren't going to win, imho.

[Nhoj]

Democrat - Burn'em all!

Except you aren't you are in the foreigner category.

[Mr. Smith]

if you are able to win seats on a local level now occupied by republicans, you are able to build.

if you are trying to wrestle the most liberal seats from more centrist democrats....you aren't going to win, imho.

Wasn't a problem when the Tea Party did things this way. Now they have the Presidency.

Try again.

[ApatheticAustrian]

Wasn't a problem when the Tea Party did things this way.

it WAS a problem.

they bungled dozen of seats, especially in the senate, destroyed their own ideology and became core-less enough to be taken over by a trickster.

the raging populism is a way to move a few important votes in the midwest....but it risks the emerging democratic majority in the atlantic region/west-south.

don't get me wrong, i am fully commited to warren's wing of the party, i just am allergic to the max to intra-party-fighting.

[Lief 🗽]

I gotta say, liberals like Lief are much better at fighting those on the left then they are at fighting the right.

lol, get back to me when a leftist wins a single election in any competitive district or state in the country or when leftists don't almost uniformly run behind the "evil establishment" candidate, like they did in 2016.

[Ebowed]

Obviously, installing Perez was a colossal mistake.  The Obama/Biden wing has done enough damage to the Democrats as it is.  Their interference in this election will not soon be forgotten or forgiven.

This is not to say that anyone should "give up" on the Democrats or anything ridiculous like that - after all, the alternative is the Republicans - but it does not bode well for the future.  If Democrats make gains in 2018, it will be in spite of its leadership.  It is apparent that the Democratic establishment has not sensed the level of distaste that ordinary voters have for Trump and the other big money interests holding the USA hostage.  The level of resistance I am seeing needs to be increased immediately.  To waste all of this passion, this newfound civic engagement, on milquetoast moderates who are more concerned with making sure the party has enough money to compete in elections rather than actually addressing campaign finance is a total disgrace.

[Ebowed]

As much as I wanted Ellison to win...I think Perez is smart enough to actually try and push the Democrats in the right direction regarding allocation of campaign funds and resources. He isn't totally useless and un-self aware like DWS

I hope you are right!

[Doimper]

Perez was considered too far to the left to be guaranteed confirmation as AG, and it is infuriating to see people throw temper tantrums about him being some sort of neoliberal centrist shill just because he endorsed Clinton.

Ellison and Perez were great candidates, and I'm sure both of them will do a fantastic job going forward.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I was quite upset by the outcome of this, despite buying a little into the fear that the right would turn Ellison into a boogeyman.  I saw this as a proxy battle for something bigger than the actual position of DNC chair.

Foucaulf pointed out, however, that real change has to come from the bottom.  Democrats always want the easy way for change.. just install some token figurehead at the top and hope everything falls into line.  That's not how it works.

In order to affect change and prevent disasters like 2016 for the Democratic party, we just have to put our heads down and get on slogging.  And keep on eye on Perez, of course.

Of course. I don't think anyone in this thread is suggesting anything different.

False.

Democrat - Burn'em all!

[Antonio the Sixth]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

For f**k's sake.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

I was quite upset by the outcome of this, despite buying a little into the fear that the right would turn Ellison into a boogeyman.  I saw this as a proxy battle for something bigger than the actual position of DNC chair.

Foucaulf pointed out, however, that real change has to come from the bottom.  Democrats always want the easy way for change.. just install some token figurehead at the top and hope everything falls into line.  That's not how it works.

In order to affect change and prevent disasters like 2016 for the Democratic party, we just have to put our heads down and get on slogging.  And keep on eye on Perez, of course.

Of course. I don't think anyone in this thread is suggesting anything different.

False.

Democrat - Burn'em all!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

For f**k's sake.

I think that about covers it.

In a private conversation with friends about this as it was happening, I said "F[inks]k the Democratic Party."

I meant it neither literally (I'm taken, thanks) nor did I mean that I had given up on the Democratic Party (as in " the Democratic Party, let's go swimming") nor did I hold the entirety of the Democratic Party responsible. In fact, I'm profoundly grateful and proud of the fact that the Democratic Party of the state that I grew up in (CT) and my adoptive home state (NH) both voted for Keith. I know that the DNC isn't representative of the Democratic Party as a whole. I know that the Democratic Party does a lot of good in a lot of places, and his a heck of a lot better than the alternative.

I still wouldn't take it back though. F[inks]k the Democratic Party.

But, you know, hyperbolically.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

if you are able to win seats on a local level now occupied by republicans, you are able to build.

if you are trying to wrestle the most liberal seats from more centrist democrats....you aren't going to win, imho.

Wasn't a problem when the Tea Party did things this way. Now they have the Presidency.

Try again.

Trump is not a Tea Party guy, that was Cruz. The Tea Party is basically dead. Trump is a whole different type of terrible.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I gotta say, liberals like Lief are much better at fighting those on the left then they are at fighting the right.

lol, get back to me when a leftist wins a single election in any competitive district or state in the country or when leftists don't almost uniformly run behind the "evil establishment" candidate, like they did in 2016.

Uh, off the top of my head, I think Sherrod Brown is plenty leftist for most of the people upset right now. And Rick Nolan is not exactly ALATT, but he endorsed Sanders from the left of the party and represents a Trump district.

[Green Line]

I would have preferred someone more conservative.

[Sir Mohamed]

Not a bad composition and a good and fair move by Perez to bring Ellison into the team. However, I was hoping for Ellison to win. I like Perez as a politician, but making enthusiastic speeches is just not in his DNA. But the DNC Chair shouldn’t be overestimated. Nevertheless, I think both know where our problems are. That’s the first step towards making our great party more competitive in rural areas. However, I’m, a little worried that we neglect white Americans. Dems must point out that we’re the voice of hard working people and not the Trumpster and his crownies.

[ApatheticAustrian]

sherrod brown is lefty in a "traditional" way, which is also quite competetive in trump country.

bernie is a combination of traditional economic leftiness and modern progressive leftiness.

much harder sell in some places.

[Ronnie]

To anyone who has misgivings about Perez, this heartfelt Daily Beast article might assuage your concerns: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/02/27/my-out-of-bounds-email-to-tom-perez.html

[Kingpoleon]

To anyone who has misgivings about Perez, this heartfelt Daily Beast article might assuage your concerns: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/02/27/my-out-of-bounds-email-to-tom-perez.html

The Daily Beast continues to be the very best like no media ever is or was. You'd have to search far and wide across the land to find a source that better allows one to understand.

[Blackacre]

To anyone who has misgivings about Perez, this heartfelt Daily Beast article might assuage your concerns: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/02/27/my-out-of-bounds-email-to-tom-perez.html

The Daily Beast continues to be the very best like no media ever is or was. You'd have to search far and wide across the land to find a source that better allows one to understand.

Please tell me the pokemon reference was intentional