Your feelings on Perez as DNC Chair, Ellison as Deputy Chair?

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Darn it all to heck. Darn all of it to heck.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

Oh, just the icing on the cake!

Yeah that bit actually sucks and is worth getting upset. This childish garbage:

Wtf is up with all the hate for Perez? DNC Chair isn't a policy figure. And even if it was, he's just as progressive as Ellison.

This is a symbol. It's a middle finger to anyone who isn't an establishment hack.

Is not. Seriously you f[inks]ing child.

I mean, it's more a middle finger to everyone but the establishment than a Russian Art Museum is an anti LGBT+ hate crime, so maybe cool it a little?

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

I'm personally far more pissed at this than anything else.

Oh, just the icing on the cake!

Yeah that bit actually sucks and is worth getting upset. This childish garbage:

Wtf is up with all the hate for Perez? DNC Chair isn't a policy figure. And even if it was, he's just as progressive as Ellison.

This is a symbol. It's a middle finger to anyone who isn't an establishment hack.

Is not. Seriously you f[inks]ing child.

I mean, it's more a middle finger to everyone but the establishment than a Russian Art Museum is an anti LGBT+ hate crime, so maybe cool it a little?

I support Ellison and am OK with Perez. I don't think he's a monster and he's infinitely better than DWS. I do not see how I was given the middle finger. I doubt even Ellison feels that way. So yes I will call out Antonio for acting like such a moron in regards to a party he's not even a member of or eligible to vote for.

I'm an eligible D and I believe the same thing.

I'm glad you supported Ellison. Who did you support in the Democratic primary? Do you align yourself with people who believe that the Democratic Party is elitist and does not represent them or their beliefs? Were you disappointed by President Obama's administration?

If you don't share our priorities, you're not one of us. You show little interest (much like your compatriots in the DNC apparently) in understanding the perspective and ideology of different factions within the party. You believe that the Democratic party's problems are mechanical, not ideological. You don't understand what we're talking about if you call our concerns childish.

You freak out at plenty of things that are absolutely bonkers. You are in no position to criticize Antonio, (especially because he's in the right).

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Do you align yourself with people who believe that the Democratic Party is elitist and does not represent them or their beliefs? Were you disappointed by President Obama's administration?

No to both.

Aye and there's the rub, I suspect.

If you don't share our priorities, you're not one of us. You show little interest (much like your compatriots in the DNC apparently) in understanding the perspective and ideology of different factions within the party.

Actually I'm willing to wager most Democrats don't feel that way. And the second sentence is not at all true, and actually if you knew anything about my work here you'd know how comical and ridiculous that is. However it's pretty absurd to say that Perez doesn't understand that either, or even that his position is all that important in regards to that.

Of currently registered Democrats? Sure. Based on past results I'd bet it's about 60-40 in favor of feeling represented. But those aren't the goalposts we should use. Include the left leaning Is (that the Party has hemhorraged over the past 2 years) to make up our electoral coalition every cycle? I bet it's *at least* reversed.

As for this not reflecting your work, I think all of us that have done political work who are on this forum on this forum are very glad that we don't have to act up to our professional standards while posting. The way you act on this forum reflects very little interest in party unity or understanding the ideological breakdown of the party. You might do it in your day job, but you don't do it here.

The problems are both. The DNC chair's job though is to fix the mechanical ones. The DNC chair has little influence over policy. And frankly even if that was a big part of the job I'd be fine with Perez because he is no centrist shill either and claiming he is is absurd.

It's factional. The Bernie wing had a candidate, and Perez was put up by the forces of stasis. He will be a force for stasis in the position because that was his electoral coalition.

So it's right to have a meltdown of epic proportions over the most progressive DNC Chair since probably Paul Kirk or someone just got selected because he beat your preferred candidate who is still being given a position of influence? And speaking as someone who has met Ellison himself on multiple occasions, I can assure you he would not approve.

He's not having a meltdown of epic proportions. Perez might be personally progressive, but he's at most in sync with 2012, not 2016. And as you correctly point out, the DNC is mechanical. And he will favor the regressive forces in the party, even if he believes in progressive policy.

Ellison is in a very different position than any of us are, and if he would approve he certainly wouldn't express it to any of us.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Oh my God. Please read jfern's posting history and then tell me he has ANY interest whatsoever in party unity. Like seriously. ROFL.

Jfern is Jfern, Antonio is Antonio. I'm defending the latter, not the former.

But my point here was that you don't behave like a compassionate party operative when you talk about intra-party politics on this board. You just don't.

Well good thing his position has little do with "the force of stasis" then...and you seem to be basically even admitting the DNC chair has very little to do with actual policy.

Uhhh, he's gonna have final say on a BUNCH of where the money goes next cycle. He's gonna have a lot of agency in where the money comes from. And with Perez in way too much of it is going to come from the same DC lobbyists and go to the same DC communications consulting firms as it always has. He's gonna be an influential force in recruiting candidates (yes I know that DCCC, DGA, DSCC, DAGA, DLCC, etc have a bigger role in this. But DNC chair DOES have a role).

Maybe he won't be writing the platform. But DNC chair is a key piece of the puzzle in what resources the party develops, where, and when. And those ALL have ideological components.

He sure wouldn't express it in this level of childish absurdity, I can assure you that.

That is because he is an elected official and we are posters on the internet. Amazingly, different rules of personal expression apply. If I were a congressman and the new Deputy DNC Chair, I would be publicly gracious and courteous.

[pasted all these together]
 Then you should be working on recruiting progressive candidates downballot, not focusing so much on a position who's primary roles are hosting fundraisers and doing quick 5 minute interviews on news networks...Go grassroots, take over local parties, committees, recruit progressive candidates for Congress and take over state parties. Like I helped do last year boosting the Bernie wing of the DFL. Get over the DNC Chair, a position that's effectively equivalent to the role of the king/queen in a constitutional monarchy...

These are not mutually exclusive. At all. You can take over the party and be salty about this at the same time. Indeed, I've mostly seen people become MORE determined to take over the party after this, not less.

Not to tip my hand too much, but I took a year off college to staff Bernie in 6 states. I'm trying to work in NE this summer to build the party. I went to freaking IN to knock doors for GOTV. Whenever I get out of this machine city (Chicago) and stop being a full time student, my first stop is at my local Dems monthly meeting. I have every intention to give my all to bring the Bernie wing to ascendancy in the Democratic Party, to and build a Democratic party that can run the country.

I'm still pissed off at this, and it's still a slap in the face from an ungrateful and out of touch establishment.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Can't y'all save the outrage for things that actually matter instead of seeing insults in which far-left candidate was chosen for DNC chair?

Factional struggle within the party matters. Full stop. And you only think it doesn't because you identify with the faction in power, and want to tamp down conflict.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Can't y'all save the outrage for things that actually matter instead of seeing insults in which far-left candidate was chosen for DNC chair?

Factional struggle within the party matters. Full stop. And you only think it doesn't because you identify with the faction in power, and want to tamp down conflict.

You seem more interested in fighting democrats you don't like then fighting donald. Ellison was made vice-chair purely as a gesture towards your people. A minority faction within the party is not entitled to everything. You were the ones who tried to turn this random party position into a proxy war. Not us. The party is made up of many groups that aren't you that don't have enough of a voice. Some of these groups I identify with. Those of us who really care about issues of racial and gender inequality enough to identify with the feminist movement, Black Lives Matter, etc aren't whining about not getting the DNC chair go to our special candidate, (we'd be fine with Ellison) and we didn't get the slightest hint of any pandering. We got a hell of a lot less then you, and we're happily marching along. It would be cool to be the faction in control, but we aren't going to start acting like babies when the establishment assigns one of its own to a strategizing and fundraising position.

why do you assume that the Prog wing is distinct from BLM and feminism?

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

I mean if you define the 'Progressive Wing' to be Obama loyalists, maybe.

Like actually, I think that's the problem here. There are three generations within the party working themselves out; Clinton loyalists, Obama loyalists, and Bernie loyalists. Obama folks think they're the bleeding edge of the party, but in truth they've alienated a lot of people in labor, environmental groups, etc etc. over the past 8 years in Washington.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

Haha get the f outta here with that crap

If Tom Perez really was a strong progressive why did he run against Leader of the Congressional Progressive Caucus Keith Ellison?

Uh, because he thought he'd do a better job? It's an election dude. Sorry Ellison didn't get his coronation just because he was the first to announce.

You need to drop your absurd manichean view of the world where every election is a HEROIC PROGRESSIVE vs. an EVIL ESTABLISHMENT SHILL.

He was run against Ellison because President Obama didn't want Ellison in. Full stop.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

I mean if you define the 'Progressive Wing' to be Obama loyalists, maybe.

Like actually, I think that's the problem here. There are three generations within the party working themselves out; Clinton loyalists, Obama loyalists, and Bernie loyalists. Obama folks think they're the bleeding edge of the party, but in truth they've alienated a lot of people in labor, environmental groups, etc etc. over the past 8 years in Washington.

Obama is, by far, the most popular Democratic politician. There's no evidence that he's alienated a lot of progressives.

I mean, there was a Presidential primary where his chosen successor only drew 55% of the popular vote. AFTER she was established to be the inevitable winner.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

I mean if you define the 'Progressive Wing' to be Obama loyalists, maybe.

Like actually, I think that's the problem here. There are three generations within the party working themselves out; Clinton loyalists, Obama loyalists, and Bernie loyalists. Obama folks think they're the bleeding edge of the party, but in truth they've alienated a lot of people in labor, environmental groups, etc etc. over the past 8 years in Washington.

Obama is, by far, the most popular Democratic politician. There's no evidence that he's alienated a lot of progressives.

I mean, there was a Presidential primary where his chosen successor only drew 55% of the popular vote. AFTER she was established to be the inevitable winner.

You're delusional if you think a significant portion of Sanders supporters supported him because they didn't like Barack Obama. And of those who did, most were right-wing fake Democrats in the South and Appalachia.

I'm talking about the population of activists that staff campaigns, bro. There was enough dissatisfaction with the Obama legacy that Sanders was able to draw a large staff of young progressives that wanted to change the party.

Also, just gonna contest that "President Obama is the most popular Democratic Politician. Fullstop" assertion you made there.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

How many people in real life (outside Atlas and the internet) give a sh**t about the DNC election results?

A lot of the Democratic activists and professionals that represent the Prog wing in the political firmament, let me tell ya.

The "progressive wing" is happy that a progressive who has spent his life fighting for civil rights and workers' rights is the new DNC chair.

The Bernie Cult is a different thing.

I mean if you define the 'Progressive Wing' to be Obama loyalists, maybe.

Like actually, I think that's the problem here. There are three generations within the party working themselves out; Clinton loyalists, Obama loyalists, and Bernie loyalists. Obama folks think they're the bleeding edge of the party, but in truth they've alienated a lot of people in labor, environmental groups, etc etc. over the past 8 years in Washington.

Obama is, by far, the most popular Democratic politician. There's no evidence that he's alienated a lot of progressives.

I mean, there was a Presidential primary where his chosen successor only drew 55% of the popular vote. AFTER she was established to be the inevitable winner.

You're delusional if you think a significant portion of Sanders supporters supported him because they didn't like Barack Obama. And of those who did, most were right-wing fake Democrats in the South and Appalachia.

I'm talking about the population of activists that staff campaigns, bro.

No? You were talking about the primary electorate...

Check the edit.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

I was quite upset by the outcome of this, despite buying a little into the fear that the right would turn Ellison into a boogeyman.  I saw this as a proxy battle for something bigger than the actual position of DNC chair.

Foucaulf pointed out, however, that real change has to come from the bottom.  Democrats always want the easy way for change.. just install some token figurehead at the top and hope everything falls into line.  That's not how it works.

In order to affect change and prevent disasters like 2016 for the Democratic party, we just have to put our heads down and get on slogging.  And keep on eye on Perez, of course.

Of course. I don't think anyone in this thread is suggesting anything different.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

I was quite upset by the outcome of this, despite buying a little into the fear that the right would turn Ellison into a boogeyman.  I saw this as a proxy battle for something bigger than the actual position of DNC chair.

Foucaulf pointed out, however, that real change has to come from the bottom.  Democrats always want the easy way for change.. just install some token figurehead at the top and hope everything falls into line.  That's not how it works.

In order to affect change and prevent disasters like 2016 for the Democratic party, we just have to put our heads down and get on slogging.  And keep on eye on Perez, of course.

Of course. I don't think anyone in this thread is suggesting anything different.

False.

Democrat - Burn'em all!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

For f**k's sake.

I think that about covers it.

In a private conversation with friends about this as it was happening, I said "F[inks]k the Democratic Party."

I meant it neither literally (I'm taken, thanks) nor did I mean that I had given up on the Democratic Party (as in " the Democratic Party, let's go swimming") nor did I hold the entirety of the Democratic Party responsible. In fact, I'm profoundly grateful and proud of the fact that the Democratic Party of the state that I grew up in (CT) and my adoptive home state (NH) both voted for Keith. I know that the DNC isn't representative of the Democratic Party as a whole. I know that the Democratic Party does a lot of good in a lot of places, and his a heck of a lot better than the alternative.

I still wouldn't take it back though. F[inks]k the Democratic Party.

But, you know, hyperbolically.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

For those interested...some leaked (or claims to have leaked) the DNC Chair Ballot voting list showing how each state and member voted in the first and second round:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mi9sac97q6jqf4m/AACsQeUCVB8Fvcl-dubfePKIa?dl=0

Great news! Hopefully they will be systematically targeted by the Bernie wing whenever they're up for reelection.

I hope they're only targeted if Perez does a poor job running the DNC. If he does an excellent job, the people who voted for him shouldn't face punishment for doing a good thing

LOL no. This is not about Perez.

Why should they be punished if Perez does a great job?  With all due respect, that makes absolutely no sense.

The party needs a change in local and national leadership. If you were on the wrong side of this fight, it says something about your political judgement and benefit to the party going forward.

Perez might be a great DNC chair. But if you were part of the group of people that sabotaged the bid of someone with support from both wings of the party SOLELY because he was perceived as "the Bernie candidate" and you just hate populists that much, I think it's pretty fair to say that it's time for you to go. 

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

For those interested...some leaked (or claims to have leaked) the DNC Chair Ballot voting list showing how each state and member voted in the first and second round:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mi9sac97q6jqf4m/AACsQeUCVB8Fvcl-dubfePKIa?dl=0

Great news! Hopefully they will be systematically targeted by the Bernie wing whenever they're up for reelection.

I hope they're only targeted if Perez does a poor job running the DNC. If he does an excellent job, the people who voted for him shouldn't face punishment for doing a good thing

LOL no. This is not about Perez.

Why should they be punished if Perez does a great job?  With all due respect, that makes absolutely no sense.

The party needs a change in local and national leadership. If you were on the wrong side of this fight, it says something about your political judgement and benefit to the party going forward.

Perez might be a great DNC chair. But if you were part of the group of people that sabotaged the bid of someone with support from both wings of the party SOLELY because he was perceived as "the Bernie candidate" and you just hate populists that much, I think it's pretty fair to say that it's time for you to go. 

I do agree it boggles my mind how Chuck Schumer backs Keith yet that wasn't enough. But still the DNC chair is not a event worth killing the dems over an while many won't admit it but Perez also won because he is a "safer" choice, as ugly as it is Keith could of easily been turned into a boogeyman man

The inconsequential nature of the DNC chairship (though I will push back on that a little bit; how the Dems raise and disburse money matters) is part of what makes it so damning though. People within the party were so petty as to deny us even *this.*

As for safe choices, I've said it before and I've said it again; the DNC chair is not a public figure. You can't fundraise off of someone your base has never heard of, and no one outside of DC/the Twin Cities would know Keith Ellison's name if he were made chair.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

For those interested...some leaked (or claims to have leaked) the DNC Chair Ballot voting list showing how each state and member voted in the first and second round:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mi9sac97q6jqf4m/AACsQeUCVB8Fvcl-dubfePKIa?dl=0

Great news! Hopefully they will be systematically targeted by the Bernie wing whenever they're up for reelection.

I hope they're only targeted if Perez does a poor job running the DNC. If he does an excellent job, the people who voted for him shouldn't face punishment for doing a good thing

LOL no. This is not about Perez.

Why should they be punished if Perez does a great job?  With all due respect, that makes absolutely no sense.

The party needs a change in local and national leadership. If you were on the wrong side of this fight, it says something about your political judgement and benefit to the party going forward.

Perez might be a great DNC chair. But if you were part of the group of people that sabotaged the bid of someone with support from both wings of the party SOLELY because he was perceived as "the Bernie candidate" and you just hate populists that much, I think it's pretty fair to say that it's time for you to go. 

If Ellison had support from both wings of the party, he'd be DNC chair right now.

What wing do you put Majority Leader Schumer and Former Majority Leader Reid in, exactly?