Trump immigration megathread

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I don't see them as trivialities, but they came here illegally.  It's irrational for them to expect that they somehow end up with U.S. citizenship at the end of the day.

Well, if you lack the imagination to think of any other sanction, incentive, or compromise then of course it would seem irrational.

I can think of other sanctions, but they'd be even more draconian.  Simply granting amnesty as if they they were a legal immigrant as of the date amnesty is granted is not an viable option.  For that matter unless we do something to make illegal immigration less attractive in the future (and no I don't mean building that useless wall) there's little point in doing any sort of amnesty.  Personally, I favor making E-verify a requirement for all employers nationwide and considerably upping the penalties for failing to do so.

Permanent residency without citizenship is a much more draconian punishment that most people realize, and in its effects collectively sanctions entire communities and groups of workers, many of whom are legal immigrants or even native US citizens, rather than only those who entered the country or overstayed illegally.

It is a punishment that affects the US citizen who can't sit in front of a jury of his or her true "peers," or who can't count on votes from any of his or her friends and neighbors during a run for county legislator, as much as the people whom it would directly prevent from acting as citizens. It is not just denying people a "right" that ought to be treated extremely seriously in any liberal democracy worthy of the name; it also prevents them from meeting an obligation in a way that necessarily has wide ripple effects.

If you are arguing for total amnesty on the grounds that it will deprive a Hispanic candidate of potential votes, than you might as well create artificial voters. They don't have a vote under their current, undocumented status. Why should they get one after?

They have no obligation. The whole point of this draconian punishment is to prevent further such instances of illegal immigration. I'm sorta surprised you'd think we'd be swayed by the consequences of the punishment, considering the right-wing is the side that is pushing for increased action to begin with.

[Mr. Morden]

My mother's a Canadian citizen who's lived in the US for almost her entire life (she's a green card holder).  She just doesn't care enough about voting to bother with US citizenship.  I hope she isn't forced to get US citizenship or self-deport under the Averroes policy.  

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

My point is that the worst possible outcome is giving legal legitimacy to a class of permanent non-citizen residents.

They aren't a permanent class.  Their kids would be citizens, even under the most limited interpretation of the 14th Amendment.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

My point is that the worst possible outcome is giving legal legitimacy to a class of permanent non-citizen residents. A liberal democracy should not have that. There are a variety of ways to respond to the problem, from mass deportations to sanctions to full amnesty, but having people living in the country permanently without full political rights is as untenable as the status quo. No adult should be living in this country indefinitely unless he or she is either working toward citizenship or meeting the obligations of citizenship. If there is one thing that Democratic representatives should not compromise on, it is this.

Because less and less compromise is obviously what is necessary here.

How about legal permanent residency, but with the option for citizenship only open if they go back to their home country first?

[Ronnie]

The Trump administration is considering separating women and children at the border:

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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-children-idUSKBN16A2ES

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

My point is that the worst possible outcome is giving legal legitimacy to a class of permanent non-citizen residents.

They aren't a permanent class.  Their kids would be citizens, even under the most limited interpretation of the 14th Amendment.

Semantic pedantry, and not even correct semantic pedantry. People are not literally their children. Those actually covered by this policy would never become citizens.

No one forced the adults to come here, or for that matter to stay.  If being deprived of citizenship where they reside by being here bothers them that much, there's an obvious solution. (Note I speak of the general case of those who come here illegally for economic reasons, rather than reasons that would merit being granted refugee status.)

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

My point is that the worst possible outcome is giving legal legitimacy to a class of permanent non-citizen residents.

They aren't a permanent class.  Their kids would be citizens, even under the most limited interpretation of the 14th Amendment.

Semantic pedantry, and not even correct semantic pedantry. People are not literally their children. Those actually covered by this policy would never become citizens.

No one forced the adults to come here, or for that matter to stay.  If being deprived of citizenship where they reside by being here bothers them that much, there's an obvious solution. (Note I speak of the general case of those who come here illegally for economic reasons, rather than reasons that would merit being granted refugee status.)

Who said anything about whether it bothers or harms them?

Well, what I propose certainly ain't going to harm us.  (And I include you in the us, since you're here legally.)  Despite your overblown rhetoric, having illegal immigrants not getting citizenship themselves isn't going to create a permanent underclass.  With birthright citizenship, that's impossible, and would be impossible even if legal immigrants could never become citizens themselves. (A stance I don't advocate at all, by the way.  I don't have a Blue Michigan avatar after all.)

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Trump administration considering separating women, children at Mexico border

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-children-idUSKBN16A2ES

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They're cartoon villains at this point. How long before Trump drapes the Cobra flag over the White House?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Trump administration considering separating women, children at Mexico border

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-children-idUSKBN16A2ES

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They're cartoon villains at this point. How long before Trump drapes the Cobra flag over the White House?

He certainly has morons on his payroll.
http://dai.ly/x2pamtk?start=757

[hopper]

Trump administration considering separating women, children at Mexico border

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-children-idUSKBN16A2ES

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They're cartoon villains at this point. How long before Trump drapes the Cobra flag over the White House?

Women coming here with Children should be sent back together if illegally crossing the border.

[hopper]

My mother's a Canadian citizen who's lived in the US for almost her entire life (she's a green card holder).  She just doesn't care enough about voting to bother with US citizenship.  I hope she isn't forced to get US citizenship or self-deport under the Averroes policy.  

She is a green card holder so I doubt she would forced to get US Citizenship.

[hopper]

There shouldn't be a single Democratic vote for a bill like that. Pathway to citizenship or nothing. Frankly, we should just wait until we have a Democratic president to do anything of this magnitude.

Following the Republican obstructionist playbook they pioneered (along with the same breathtaking chutzpah), we should demand concession after concession, and then vote against the final bill anyway, forcing Trump to pass it on Republican votes alone, and then accuse him and them of excessive partisanship.  

The Democrats aren't that stupid.

[hopper]

There shouldn't be a single Democratic vote for a bill like that. Pathway to citizenship or nothing. Frankly, we should just wait until we have a Democratic president to do anything of this magnitude.

Why?

[hopper]

Called it months ago. They recognize being anti-minority is going to backfire if Latinos turn out and continue voting Democratic. So ergo this.

I doubt the compromise will ever happen (Trump's base would revolt) but can you imagine the millions of new Democrats if a future Democratic President legalized them all?

This is hilarious to watch and I can only imagine Trump's base going apoplectic.

That really depends if he gets them (illegal arrivals) out of the country before the next election.

If they are still in the country, what you are saying is a strong point.

They're not gonna leave. They're dominant in a lot of healthcare and hospitality and low level menial and food picking jobs.

Most of those jobs can and will be replaced by robots over the next few years. Hence the importance of no amnesty. Once there are no longer the jobs for them in the US illegal and insecure status will increase motivation to self deport. Will also subtract substantially to the pull factor as well a subtracting one of the main motives for Americans to allow these people to stay in the US.

Yeah but you know as well I do their kids are not leaving since they probably went to school in the US. The Illegals Immigrants aren't going back to Mexico because their kids are mostly Americanized. That's one of the big incentives to why Republicans and Democrats support immigration reform is so children of  illegal immigrants aren't "Culture shocked" by a permanent move to Mexico.

[hopper]

Called it months ago. They recognize being anti-minority is going to backfire if Latinos turn out and continue voting Democratic. So ergo this.

I doubt the compromise will ever happen (Trump's base would revolt) but can you imagine the millions of new Democrats if a future Democratic President legalized them all?

This is hilarious to watch and I can only imagine Trump's base going apoplectic.

Of course Latino's are gonna continue to vote Dem most of them are immigrants or their parents of immigrants.

[hopper]

Good. It's crazy and harsh to round up 11 million people, many of whom have been here for years, have citizen family, friends, coworkers. If he actually pushed this through it'll be harder to see him as a racist, it shows he has some compassion. But I'm still highly skeptical he's serious about it.

He is wish washy about the issue.

[hopper]

Called it months ago. They recognize being anti-minority is going to backfire if Latinos turn out and continue voting Democratic. So ergo this.

I doubt the compromise will ever happen (Trump's base would revolt) but can you imagine the millions of new Democrats if a future Democratic President legalized them all?

This is hilarious to watch and I can only imagine Trump's base going apoplectic.

No he is not gonna deport every illegal immigrant.

I don't think its hilarious its as serious issue.

[Meclazine for Israel]

And here we go again.

"US President Donald Trump is preparing to release an updated executive order tomorrow (Monday, US time), according to multiple reports.

The first order temporarily halted travel from citizens of seven Muslim-majority nations, which triggered nationwide protests and legal challenges."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-28/what-will-trumps-new-executive-order-look-like/8295638

[Badger]

Called it months ago. They recognize being anti-minority is going to backfire if Latinos turn out and continue voting Democratic. So ergo this.

I doubt the compromise will ever happen (Trump's base would revolt) but can you imagine the millions of new Democrats if a future Democratic President legalized them all?

This is hilarious to watch and I can only imagine Trump's base going apoplectic.

Of course Latino's are gonna continue to vote Dem most of them are immigrants or their parents of immigrants.

Well, the modern GOP acting like complete racist dicks to Hispanics of all stripes (except Cubans of course) doesn't help.

Hell, people are usually just as opposed to legal immigration as they are to illegal immigration for the same reasons.

[Ronnie]

Breaking: Hawaii to sue Trump administration on Muslim ban:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/07/politics/hawaii-travel-ban-lawsuit/index.html?adkey=bn

[hopper]

Called it months ago. They recognize being anti-minority is going to backfire if Latinos turn out and continue voting Democratic. So ergo this.

I doubt the compromise will ever happen (Trump's base would revolt) but can you imagine the millions of new Democrats if a future Democratic President legalized them all?

This is hilarious to watch and I can only imagine Trump's base going apoplectic.

Of course Latino's are gonna continue to vote Dem most of them are immigrants or their parents of immigrants.

Well, the modern GOP acting like complete racist dicks to Hispanics of all stripes (except Cubans of course) doesn't help.

Hell, people are usually just as opposed to legal immigration as they are to illegal immigration for the same reasons.

It doesn't matter how the GOP acts towards Hispanics  for the most part they are still gonna vote for Dems because their parents or they themselves grew up in 3rd world countries where the governments do a whole lot of stuff.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Called it months ago. They recognize being anti-minority is going to backfire if Latinos turn out and continue voting Democratic. So ergo this.

I doubt the compromise will ever happen (Trump's base would revolt) but can you imagine the millions of new Democrats if a future Democratic President legalized them all?

This is hilarious to watch and I can only imagine Trump's base going apoplectic.

Of course Latino's are gonna continue to vote Dem most of them are immigrants or their parents of immigrants.

Well, the modern GOP acting like complete racist dicks to Hispanics of all stripes (except Cubans of course) doesn't help.

Hell, people are usually just as opposed to legal immigration as they are to illegal immigration for the same reasons.

It doesn't matter how the GOP acts towards Hispanics  for the most part they are still gonna vote for Dems because their parents or they themselves grew up in 3rd world countries where the governments do a whole lot of stuff.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA!

Think about it.  No really.  THINK!  You apparently are way out of practice, but try thinking for a change.  If they were being cared for by a safety net that worked, why did they come here in the first place? To experience food loaded with HFCS?  That would make about as much as sense as what you just said.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Called it months ago. They recognize being anti-minority is going to backfire if Latinos turn out and continue voting Democratic. So ergo this.

I doubt the compromise will ever happen (Trump's base would revolt) but can you imagine the millions of new Democrats if a future Democratic President legalized them all?

This is hilarious to watch and I can only imagine Trump's base going apoplectic.

Of course Latino's are gonna continue to vote Dem most of them are immigrants or their parents of immigrants.

Well, the modern GOP acting like complete racist dicks to Hispanics of all stripes (except Cubans of course) doesn't help.

Hell, people are usually just as opposed to legal immigration as they are to illegal immigration for the same reasons.

It doesn't matter how the GOP acts towards Hispanics  for the most part they are still gonna vote for Dems because their parents or they themselves grew up in 3rd world countries where the governments do a whole lot of stuff.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA!

Think about it.  No really.  THINK!  You apparently are way out of practice, but try thinking for a change.  If they were being cared for by a safety net that worked, why did they come here in the first place? To experience food loaded with HFCS?  That would make about as much as sense as what you just said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOrY199QiB8

[Mike88]

Young Portuguese at risk if Trump ends the program that protects those who immigrated as a child.

Expresso newspaper, from Portugal, reports that an undetermined number of Young Portuguese are at risk if Trump ends the program that protects people who were taken to America illegally when they were children. The program is called DACA - Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals.

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[Ronnie]

Hawaii judge extends the order blocking Trump's Muslim ban:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/hawaii-judge-extends-order-blocking-trump-travel-ban-n740396