Trump immigration megathread

[The_Doctor]

You know as well as I do their kids will get the right to vote when the Democratic Party retakes power. There's not a single thing stopping a Democratic Congress and White House from overturning such a deal.

[EnglishPete]

Called it months ago. They recognize being anti-minority is going to backfire if Latinos turn out and continue voting Democratic. So ergo this.

I doubt the compromise will ever happen (Trump's base would revolt) but can you imagine the millions of new Democrats if a future Democratic President legalized them all?

This is hilarious to watch and I can only imagine Trump's base going apoplectic.

That really depends if he gets them (illegal arrivals) out of the country before the next election.

If they are still in the country, what you are saying is a strong point.

They're not gonna leave. They're dominant in a lot of healthcare and hospitality and low level menial and food picking jobs.

Most of those jobs can and will be replaced by robots over the next few years. Hence the importance of no amnesty. Once there are no longer the jobs for them in the US illegal and insecure status will increase motivation to self deport. Will also subtract substantially to the pull factor as well a subtracting one of the main motives for Americans to allow these people to stay in the US.

[Devout Centrist]

Called it months ago. They recognize being anti-minority is going to backfire if Latinos turn out and continue voting Democratic. So ergo this.

I doubt the compromise will ever happen (Trump's base would revolt) but can you imagine the millions of new Democrats if a future Democratic President legalized them all?

This is hilarious to watch and I can only imagine Trump's base going apoplectic.

That really depends if he gets them (illegal arrivals) out of the country before the next election.

If they are still in the country, what you are saying is a strong point.

They're not gonna leave. They're dominant in a lot of healthcare and hospitality and low level menial and food picking jobs.

Most of those jobs can and will be replaced by robots over the next few years. Hence the importance of no amnesty. Once there are no longer the jobs for them in the US illegal and insecure status will increase motivation to self deport. Will also subtract substantially to the pull factor as well a subtracting one of the main motives for Americans to allow these people to stay in the US.

Very wishful thinking. Plus you could use this rationale to justify killing old people.

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

Immigration reform requires 60 votes in the Senate.

Dems should go pathway to citizenship or bust.

Then he will seek vengeance and deport them all. They should take the deal.

[The_Doctor]

Called it months ago. They recognize being anti-minority is going to backfire if Latinos turn out and continue voting Democratic. So ergo this.

I doubt the compromise will ever happen (Trump's base would revolt) but can you imagine the millions of new Democrats if a future Democratic President legalized them all?

This is hilarious to watch and I can only imagine Trump's base going apoplectic.

That really depends if he gets them (illegal arrivals) out of the country before the next election.

If they are still in the country, what you are saying is a strong point.

They're not gonna leave. They're dominant in a lot of healthcare and hospitality and low level menial and food picking jobs.

Most of those jobs can and will be replaced by robots over the next few years. Hence the importance of no amnesty. Once there are no longer the jobs for them in the US illegal and insecure status will increase motivation to self deport. Will also subtract substantially to the pull factor as well a subtracting one of the main motives for Americans to allow these people to stay in the US.

Very wishful thinking. Plus you could use this rationale to justify killing old people.

I'm not going to respond to our resident Stormfront apologist but robotics isn't getting into the aforementioned industries until much later in the century. AI capabilities don't have the capacity to fruit pick and pick the best fruits or do a lot of jobs like plumbing and mechanical tasks that require judgment calls and won't for several decades. Hospitality, healthcare, and fruit and vegetable picking and farmwork will remain human dominated purely because as I said the AI doesn't have the capabilities to make constant judgment calls that we humans can.

There is a reason I specifically named these industries.

[Devout Centrist]

Immigration reform requires 60 votes in the Senate.

Dems should go pathway to citizenship or bust.

Then he will seek vengeance and deport them all. They should take the deal.

That would be very risky and cost him a huge amount of political capital. So no, the Democrats have little to no risk here.

[EnglishPete]

Plus you could use this rationale to justify killing old people.

WTF?

One of the great arguments given in western countries for allowing third world immigrants to enter into and stay in those countries is that such immigrants will do lots of menial jobs that need doing. Well if those jobs are being done by robots then the motive for western people to allow lots of third worlders to come into the country and stay. In that case why would Americans want to grant amnesty? What would the motivation for doing that and changing from the status quo be?

Why the hell would you think robots doing menial work provides a motivation for killing old people?

[courts]

political suicide if true

[The_Doctor]

political suicide if true

Not sure what you expected

[Devout Centrist]

If true, maybe he will be a modern John Tyler.

[courts]

political suicide if true

Not sure what you expected

that's actually somewhat complicated. i expected him to govern like a generic republican on domestic policy other than trade. in some ways that's good, in others bad imo. but i haven't been surprised.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

You know as well as I do their kids will get the right to vote when the Democratic Party retakes power. There's not a single thing stopping a Democratic Congress and White House from overturning such a deal.

I mean, nothing is stopping the Democratic Party from opening the floodgates again even if we deported every single last one of them at bayonet point, so I don't see a real difference besides short term stability.

If we just give up on punishing illegal immigration, we'll only be inviting more in the future. We can do something now, it'll work until it's repealed, then we'll do it again. We'll be fighting this battle amongst ourselves as long as we have a border to cross. History works in a cycle. Some basic issues never go away.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

I'd be furious if this happens, they should all be deported.

You're not an American. Deal with it.

I'm from Essex County, Massachusetts...

You have France as a avatar. I assumed given the large number of conservative foreigners we have.

Classic Conservative is an edgy Crusades romanticizer, you see.

[DavidB.]

As long as it is something that respects legal immigrants as well as national sovereignty (i.e. no pathway to citizenship), legalization is something I can live with.

Yeah, this sounds like a good idea. Just give them permanent residency but no pathway to citizenship. Those who engaged in crime should be deported though.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I'd be furious if this happens, they should all be deported.

You're not an American. Deal with it.

I'm from Essex County, Massachusetts...

You have France as a avatar. I assumed given the large number of conservative foreigners we have.

Classic Conservative is an edgy Crusades romanticizer, you see.

It's worth noting that CC (who I like, don't get me wrong) is still an unrepentant Ted Cruz supporter. The vision of Trumpism that terrifies the opposition so much (the #resistance crowd and their purple haired feminist fellow travelers on campus) is in reality the vision of Ted Cruz, not Donald Trump.

[ApatheticAustrian]

this would also discourage those stupid, democrats just want those people to vote for them shenaningans.

if there is any merit to that, then it only includes latinos who would be able to vote in the first place.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

This kind of "compromise" offers the worst of both worlds: It creates a massive underclass of people who can stay in the country indefinitely and compete with entry-level American workers for jobs, but that is totally disenfranchised and politically disempowered.

Irreplaceable "superstars" excepted, people should not be living and working in the United States for years unless they have full political rights. This means being a citizen or progressing toward citizenship.

Assuming that the status ultimately gained would be that of a U.S. national rather than a green card holder, I have no problem with that.  Their kids still get to be U.S. citizens and the only perks they lose out on for having bumped the queue to get in they can't vote or be on juries.  (There aren't many U.S. nationals these days, just people in America Samoa who decline to apply for citizenship, but the status already exists so there'd be no meed for new law to define what their rights would be.)

[rob in cal]

  So did something happen between his hints yesterday afternoon and the speech last night, in which he seemed to return to his previous ideas, and specifically spoke out against current legal immigration policies.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

In an ideal world, this wouldn't even be an issue anymore, as the 2013 gang of eight bill would have passed. Passing that bill is the way to resolve this issue, not this "compromise".

[Torie]

Perhaps law abiding illegals could be allowed to stay legally, and at the same time, get in line with everyone else to get a green card (maybe with bonus points if employed, doing work that is needed, etc.), that would start the path to citizenship. That way, there would be an option to pursue to end over time being a second class resident, as opposed to being one for life. Just a thought. Hopefully the public square will be calm enough, and reasonable enough, to compromise on this divisive issue, so that it gets resolved with a substantial consensus. Major policy moves without a substantial consensus tend to end up rather badly, like say perhaps, Obamacare. So it is worth it, to make a real effort to try to achieve that.

[EnglishPete]

Called it months ago. They recognize being anti-minority is going to backfire if Latinos turn out and continue voting Democratic. So ergo this.

I doubt the compromise will ever happen (Trump's base would revolt) but can you imagine the millions of new Democrats if a future Democratic President legalized them all?

This is hilarious to watch and I can only imagine Trump's base going apoplectic.

That really depends if he gets them (illegal arrivals) out of the country before the next election.

If they are still in the country, what you are saying is a strong point.

They're not gonna leave. They're dominant in a lot of healthcare and hospitality and low level menial and food picking jobs.

Most of those jobs can and will be replaced by robots over the next few years. Hence the importance of no amnesty. Once there are no longer the jobs for them in the US illegal and insecure status will increase motivation to self deport. Will also subtract substantially to the pull factor as well a subtracting one of the main motives for Americans to allow these people to stay in the US.

Very wishful thinking. Plus you could use this rationale to justify killing old people.

I'm not going to respond to our resident Stormfront apologist but robotics isn't getting into the aforementioned industries until much later in the century. AI capabilities don't have the capacity to fruit pick and pick the best fruits or do a lot of jobs like plumbing and mechanical tasks that require judgment calls and won't for several decades. Hospitality, healthcare, and fruit and vegetable picking and farmwork will remain human dominated purely because as I said the AI doesn't have the capabilities to make constant judgment calls that we humans can.

There is a reason I specifically named these industries.

If self driving cars can replace the millions of people doing driving jobs, as they will over the next decade or so, and can make the constant judgements needed to do these jobs (and indeed do them better than humans https:/youtube.com/watch?v=BfOL7AxWicY ) then why can't AI do this in fruit picking robots, cleaners, cooks, nursing. And indeed doctoring, accountancy, law etc.

If new technology renders tens of millions of people unemployable that will have a number of benefits. There will no longer be any need to allow millions of third world immigrants to come and stay in western countries. There could be (an indeed would have to be) some sort of minimum citizens income for the newly unemployable tens of millions. This would have the further advantage of not only removing the necessity for millions of foreigners to be let in but also remove the necessity that millions of people feel to move away from the towns they grew up in, hundreds of miles away from their friends and relatives, to find work or get educational qualifications. Millions more people would be able to stick around near family and friends and all the social benefits that that entails would increase.

I've seen some articles saying that increasing the minimum wage would be bad as it would increase the rate at which AI robots automate jobs out of existence. I would suggested that's a benefit, not a drawback, as it would increase the rate at which the above mentioned benefits accrue. Its also a major argument in favour of Trump stricter immigration policy.

[Antonio the Sixth]

This kind of "compromise" offers the worst of both worlds: It creates a massive underclass of people who can stay in the country indefinitely and compete with entry-level American workers for jobs, but that is totally disenfranchised and politically disempowered.

Irreplaceable "superstars" excepted, people should not be living and working in the United States for years unless they have full political rights. This means being a citizen or progressing toward citizenship.

I'd say mass deportations of people who currently live here and have done nothing wrong would be infinitely worse, but yeah, this is a horrendous proposal.

[Antonio the Sixth]

oh ffs

[Fusionmunster]

Not to defend Trump, but I think calling it a lie is a bit extreme.

[KingSweden]

In all honesty, Canadian-style immigration isn't a terrible idea, and I don't think the Bannonites will like what it will actually entail (many more Chinese and Indians, for starters)