HB 2016-1079 - Congressional Resolution on Syria (AMENDMENT VOTE)

[Terry the Fat Shark]

someone please destroy this with fire

[Leinad]

someone please destroy this with fire

I would agree, but selfishly I kind of want to kill it in the Senate myself.

[Blair]

Imo 50% of this bill was done back in 2012 by the Obama administration (e.g putting Sanctions on the Syrian leadership, something that we've done for virtually every other similar case in the last 50 years)

I know the President disagrees that we should mention when Syria uses mustard gas, and barrel bombs on hospitals

[Terry the Fat Shark]

Imo 50% of this bill was done back in 2012 by the Obama administration (e.g putting Sanctions on the Syrian leadership, something that we've done for virtually every other similar case in the last 50 years)

I know the President disagrees that we should mention when Syria uses mustard gas, and barrel bombs on hospitals

Yeah, how did that work out for him? You guys love using the most insane things, if having a sane foreign policy is being seen as weak, so be it.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

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Let us debunk the pure pointlessness and foolishness of this bill, bit by bit.

1 and 1B. ok...pretty sure everyone knows about this, this isn't the reason I'm opposing the idiocy of this bill despite what Blair may claim.

(Actions on Syria....this is where it gets bad)

1. Again, don't mind this, you will see this in the Foreign Policy Review anyways, which Blair should know considering he was on the NSC, but he won't tell you that part.

2. Let's face it, the UN doesn't really have all that much power when it comes to actually doing anything unless you have real coalitions, 1-2 of the UN Security Council members adamantly oppose any action.

3. Wow, you Blairs' sure do love regime change, eh? This is not ours to decide and I will not be allowing any more regime change military actions, no more nation building/regime change wars (nation building means rebuilding these nations in our own positive image, btw)

4. Wow, let's do something else to set Russia off, that's the way to build dialogue!

C'mon people, this is common sense, if you want to pass it, go ahead. But do not expect me to indulge in this insane foreign policy endeavor.

[Blair]

Yeah, how did that work out for him? You guys love using the most insane things, if having a sane foreign policy is being seen as weak, so be it.

Unsuccessfully of course. I'm not advocating the same policy as the Obama administration. I'm simply saying that the policies in this bill are not that radical in terms of what we've done before- IIRC we placed economic sanctions/travel restrictions on South African leaders in the 1970s, and 1980s, and it worked rather successfully. Along with Serbia in the 1990s.

I don't see how using a diplomatic tool that been one of our most effective weapons is 'insane'.

1 and 1B. ok...pretty sure everyone knows about this, this isn't the reason I'm opposing the idiocy of this bill despite what Blair may claim.

Well if everyone knows about it, let's pass a resolution that affirms that Congress will call out human right abuses. I believe we've passed resolutions on Boko Harram, ISIL, the Armenian Genocide in the past, and there's a wealth of records of other chambers doing it. (the UK parliament voting to recognize Palestine in 2014 for example)

Again, don't mind this, you will see this in the Foreign Policy Review anyways, which Blair should know considering he was on the NSC, but he won't tell you that part.

I think it's widely know that I'm on the NSC. I never said that you were opposed to sanctions did I? If it's on the foreign policy review, and if the President thinks it then we should legislate to affirm it into legislation. (Something I did with my Cuba legislation for example)

Let's face it, the UN doesn't really have all that much power when it comes to actually doing anything unless you have real coalitions, 1-2 of the UN Security Council members adamantly oppose any action.

That's just wrong. There's numerous examples in the UN where minority reports, resolutions, and even the active opposition of veto nations like the US have opposed it. Apartheid in South Africa is the main example where African countries (despite being in the minority in the 60s) used the UN as a soapbox to highlight, express and frankly shout about Apartheid. Lead to reports-investigations-public pressure-UN sanctions-US sanctions-end of Apartheid.

There's an entire school of where operating outside of the UN, such as Kosovo in 1999, was extremely successful (but that's not what I'm advocating here) and showed that genocide/ethnic cleansing/war crimes can be stopped even if there isn't a UN mandate. (Under the terms of Responsibility to Protect, something I'm sure the President knows about)

3. Wow, you Blairs' sure do love regime change, eh?

I joined the Labour Party after Ed Miliband opposed Syrian Air Strikes in 2013. Considering that TB, and the 'liberal interventionist' wing strongly supported the air strikes that't kind of a invalid point to make. I appreciate that the President has been able to make a very witty joke however.

This is not ours to decide and I will not be allowing any more regime change military actions

There's no mandate for military action in this bill.

4. Wow, let's do something else to set Russia off, that's the way to build dialogue!

I think that we should speak truth to power.Whether it's allies such as Israel, Saudi Arabia or India, or countries where we can improve relations like Russia and Iran I believe that Atlasia has a duty, as a member of the international community to call out, when we see actions that we disagree with.

As someone who's been to Serbia, got close friends living there, and studied the history of the Balkans I know that the international community has to play a role in ensuring that international law, and human rights are being respected in cases like this.

Syria is a signature to various international treaties- the least we can do is give the UN a mandate to investigate this

[Enduro]

Should it please the original sponsor, I'd like to offer an amendment striking 4 from the bill, and changing 3 to a condemnation of the Assad regime.

[Representative simossad]

Should it please the original sponsor, I'd like to offer an amendment striking 4 from the bill, and changing 3 to a condemnation of the Assad regime.

I'm in support of this. The world's population can not bear a constant crisis between Atlasia and Russia.

[Blair]

Should it please the original sponsor, I'd like to offer an amendment striking 4 from the bill, and changing 3 to a condemnation of the Assad regime.

Sure. I hope a more revised version of this bill will pass with bi-partisan support if it's less controversial

[Terry the Fat Shark]

I am glad I was able to express my true feelings on this and you can expect much more of this from me in any interventionist bill that may pop up.  The voters elected me to do my job and that I shall!

[Enduro]

K, I will write the amendment either later tonight, or tomorrow afternoon. That's what I can do with my RL schedule.

[Pragmatic Conservative]

I agree with what others are saying I will support Section 1 and Section 2.1 and 2.4, iffy on section 2.2 and strongly opposed to 2.3. While I would vote Nay on the current bill, I am willing to consider an amended version that won't have a potential side effect of creating chaos in what is an already very volatile region.

[Enduro]

Here's that amendment:

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I think it avoids regime change while affirming our continued support of freedom of the people.

[Pragmatic Conservative]

I support the ammendment and feel comfortable voting in favor of this resolution now.

[Representative simossad]

I support the ammendment and feel comfortable voting in favor of this resolution now.

[OneJ]

I'm satisfied with the amendments made and will support the bill.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Representatives have 24 hours to object.

[OneJ]

No objections here.

[Pragmatic Conservative]

No objections here.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The amendment has been adopted.

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[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I didn't mention this before, but I really like the Lockean/Jeffersonian construct of Section 2, clause 3.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What now?

[Representative simossad]

I motion for a final vote on this resolution.

[Pragmatic Conservative]

I second the motion for a final vote.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

A final vote is now open on this legislation, Representatives please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.