HB 2016-1079 - Congressional Resolution on Syria (AMENDMENT VOTE) (user search)
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  HB 2016-1079 - Congressional Resolution on Syria (AMENDMENT VOTE) (search mode)
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Author Topic: HB 2016-1079 - Congressional Resolution on Syria (AMENDMENT VOTE)  (Read 1685 times)
Blair
Blair2015
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« on: March 04, 2017, 11:32:38 AM »

I think as we saw in Iraq removing a brutal dictator from power while having many benefits has the potential to create a real power void with the potential to create real chaos. So while I like the spirit of this resolution, the section two really needs to be modified.  Therefore I vote Nay on this resolution (assuming the vote is still open on this resolution).  

Apples and Oranges: the example of Iraq and Saddam shouldn't mean that every removal of an awful, brutal (and frankly ineffective leader) is questioned. Milosevic in Serbia, Bagosora in Rwanda and numerous other examples can be cited where removing a foreign leader can work. The resolution doesn't even order the removal of Assad, it says he shouldn't be allowed to remain President in any peace deal. Iraq is the poster child for bad, reckless and unilateral intervention.

It's an abdication of our duty in the international community to allow someone like Assad; who's actions have lead to the death of 500,000 people.

I'll offer an amendment to clean up the bill though,

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Blair
Blair2015
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2017, 11:54:08 AM »

Uh, the final vote is already going on, I don't think you can add amendments...

Well I'm not even a rep so I can't technically offer an amendment- if you pass it though, a Senator can amend it
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Blair
Blair2015
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« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2017, 07:12:39 PM »

I believe someone changed the layout of my bill! It looks much better though, and hope the amendment sorts out some concerns that people had
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Blair
Blair2015
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2017, 06:23:07 AM »
« Edited: March 09, 2017, 06:25:45 AM by Blair »

Imo 50% of this bill was done back in 2012 by the Obama administration (e.g putting Sanctions on the Syrian leadership, something that we've done for virtually every other similar case in the last 50 years)

I know the President disagrees that we should mention when Syria uses mustard gas, and barrel bombs on hospitals
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Blair
Blair2015
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2017, 09:53:39 AM »

Yeah, how did that work out for him? You guys love using the most insane things, if having a sane foreign policy is being seen as weak, so be it.

Unsuccessfully of course. I'm not advocating the same policy as the Obama administration. I'm simply saying that the policies in this bill are not that radical in terms of what we've done before- IIRC we placed economic sanctions/travel restrictions on South African leaders in the 1970s, and 1980s, and it worked rather successfully. Along with Serbia in the 1990s.

I don't see how using a diplomatic tool that been one of our most effective weapons is 'insane'.


1 and 1B. ok...pretty sure everyone knows about this, this isn't the reason I'm opposing the idiocy of this bill despite what Blair may claim.

Well if everyone knows about it, let's pass a resolution that affirms that Congress will call out human right abuses. I believe we've passed resolutions on Boko Harram, ISIL, the Armenian Genocide in the past, and there's a wealth of records of other chambers doing it. (the UK parliament voting to recognize Palestine in 2014 for example)

Again, don't mind this, you will see this in the Foreign Policy Review anyways, which Blair should know considering he was on the NSC, but he won't tell you that part.

I think it's widely know that I'm on the NSC. I never said that you were opposed to sanctions did I? If it's on the foreign policy review, and if the President thinks it then we should legislate to affirm it into legislation. (Something I did with my Cuba legislation for example)

Let's face it, the UN doesn't really have all that much power when it comes to actually doing anything unless you have real coalitions, 1-2 of the UN Security Council members adamantly oppose any action.

That's just wrong. There's numerous examples in the UN where minority reports, resolutions, and even the active opposition of veto nations like the US have opposed it. Apartheid in South Africa is the main example where African countries (despite being in the minority in the 60s) used the UN as a soapbox to highlight, express and frankly shout about Apartheid. Lead to reports-investigations-public pressure-UN sanctions-US sanctions-end of Apartheid.

There's an entire school of where operating outside of the UN, such as Kosovo in 1999, was extremely successful (but that's not what I'm advocating here) and showed that genocide/ethnic cleansing/war crimes can be stopped even if there isn't a UN mandate. (Under the terms of Responsibility to Protect, something I'm sure the President knows about)

3. Wow, you Blairs' sure do love regime change, eh?

I joined the Labour Party after Ed Miliband opposed Syrian Air Strikes in 2013. Considering that TB, and the 'liberal interventionist' wing strongly supported the air strikes that't kind of a invalid point to make. I appreciate that the President has been able to make a very witty joke however.

This is not ours to decide and I will not be allowing any more regime change military actions

There's no mandate for military action in this bill.

4. Wow, let's do something else to set Russia off, that's the way to build dialogue!

I think that we should speak truth to power.Whether it's allies such as Israel, Saudi Arabia or India, or countries where we can improve relations like Russia and Iran I believe that Atlasia has a duty, as a member of the international community to call out, when we see actions that we disagree with.

As someone who's been to Serbia, got close friends living there, and studied the history of the Balkans I know that the international community has to play a role in ensuring that international law, and human rights are being respected in cases like this.

Syria is a signature to various international treaties- the least we can do is give the UN a mandate to investigate this
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Blair
Blair2015
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« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2017, 04:41:53 PM »
« Edited: March 09, 2017, 04:44:20 PM by Blair »

Should it please the original sponsor, I'd like to offer an amendment striking 4 from the bill, and changing 3 to a condemnation of the Assad regime.

Sure. I hope a more revised version of this bill will pass with bi-partisan support if it's less controversial
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Blair
Blair2015
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2017, 12:37:23 PM »

Are we waiting for the Senate to have a slot open for this? I'm still unsure what the balance is between Senate Specific bills and bills coming from the House
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