Midwest/Great Lakes questions

[ilikeverin]

If you're in insurance, you should really consider Columbus.  Minneapolis is wonderful.  Madison is wonderful.  Ann Arbor is lovely (and I say that even as a Spartan).  Grand Rapids has a very nice reputation.  I was born in Fort Wayne; I moved away when I was 4, so I don't personally know much about it, but even by Midwestern standards it has a reputation for being dull.

IMO, though, you can't go wrong, and I'm jealous you have that kind of flexibility!

Columbus is definitely on my list. It has a better economy than Ohio's other big cities, is attracting young people, has a large insurance job market, and is a relatively safe city. Have you been to Columbus before?

Yes, I lived there for two months last summer.  It was excellent!  Very easy to get around, plenty of nice restaurants and bars.  (And dive bars, which are more important than nice bars.)

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As someone who's lived in the DC area for almost 5 years, well, lol but, yes, those cities are more expensive than the ones on your list I suppose.  You should actually find a cost of living comparison calculator online to check your intuitions.

EDIT: Oh!  I saw that you indicated that you're interested in taking public transit.  Columbus doesn't have great public transit, but they are rolling out a redesign of their bus system that's similar to one in Houston that increased ridership there.  However, you should know that public transit is just... not a thing in the Midwest anywhere but Chicago (and to a lesser extent, the Twin Cities).

[dead0man]

These are the cities I'd consider to be on my list right now (in no particular order)...

Grand Rapids, MI
Columbus, OH
Omaha, NE
Rochester, NY

Cities under consideration...

Bloomington, IL
Rochester, MN
Milwaukee, WI
Cleveland, OH
Buffalo, NY
Green Bay, WI
Des Moines, IA

My sister lived in Columbus for like, 15 years and loved it.  It's a lot like Omaha.  I've a lot of experience with Des Moines too, also very nice.  Smaller though, noticeably so.

and nobody wants to move to Buffalo.  That's a place people are from

[Ban my account ffs!]

If you're looking for insurance jobs specifically, the Twin Cities will be your best bet by far in Minnesota.  There are some big players there. 

And the Twin Cities have 3 million but it's not "the big city" by any means.  Most of Minneapolis and St. Paul have a very "streetcar suburb" feel (developed in the 1900-1950 era). 

Much of it looks like this:


You would still drive to your nearby Target or Aldi.  St. Paul especially tries to maintain an air of "small town living in the city".

[FalloutBoy97]

If you're in insurance, you should really consider Columbus.  Minneapolis is wonderful.  Madison is wonderful.  Ann Arbor is lovely (and I say that even as a Spartan).  Grand Rapids has a very nice reputation.  I was born in Fort Wayne; I moved away when I was 4, so I don't personally know much about it, but even by Midwestern standards it has a reputation for being dull.

IMO, though, you can't go wrong, and I'm jealous you have that kind of flexibility!

Columbus is definitely on my list. It has a better economy than Ohio's other big cities, is attracting young people, has a large insurance job market, and is a relatively safe city. Have you been to Columbus before? And I know those other cities are all very popular and attractive, but aside from Grand Rapids they're on their way to becoming pretty pricey.

These are the cities I'd consider to be on my list right now (in no particular order)...

Grand Rapids, MI
Columbus, OH
Omaha, NE
Rochester, NY

Cities under consideration...

Bloomington, IL
Rochester, MN
Milwaukee, WI
Cleveland, OH
Buffalo, NY
Green Bay, WI
Des Moines, IA

Currently attending college in Columbus and I can say it's a beautiful city. It's growing very quickly, and the economy is booming. If you want to work in insurance, many of the cities' major employers are in finance (Chase, Nationwide, etc). Fairly affordable too.

[Green Line]

Chicago is by far the best of the bunch if Insurance is what you're looking for, take it from me!  Aon, CNA just to name a few..

[JA]

If you're looking for insurance jobs specifically, the Twin Cities will be your best bet by far in Minnesota.  There are some big players there. 

And the Twin Cities have 3 million but it's not "the big city" by any means.  Most of Minneapolis and St. Paul have a very "streetcar suburb" feel (developed in the 1900-1950 era). 

Much of it looks like this:


You would still drive to your nearby Target or Aldi.  St. Paul especially tries to maintain an air of "small town living in the city".

I think of the Twin Cities, St. Paul would be my favorite. No doubt it's a beautiful, booming metro with everything I could want. But what about the COL? How's the ratio of pay to rent + utilities?

[JA]

If you're in insurance, you should really consider Columbus.  Minneapolis is wonderful.  Madison is wonderful.  Ann Arbor is lovely (and I say that even as a Spartan).  Grand Rapids has a very nice reputation.  I was born in Fort Wayne; I moved away when I was 4, so I don't personally know much about it, but even by Midwestern standards it has a reputation for being dull.

IMO, though, you can't go wrong, and I'm jealous you have that kind of flexibility!

Columbus is definitely on my list. It has a better economy than Ohio's other big cities, is attracting young people, has a large insurance job market, and is a relatively safe city. Have you been to Columbus before? And I know those other cities are all very popular and attractive, but aside from Grand Rapids they're on their way to becoming pretty pricey.

These are the cities I'd consider to be on my list right now (in no particular order)...

Grand Rapids, MI
Columbus, OH
Omaha, NE
Rochester, NY

Cities under consideration...

Bloomington, IL
Rochester, MN
Milwaukee, WI
Cleveland, OH
Buffalo, NY
Green Bay, WI
Des Moines, IA

Currently attending college in Columbus and I can say it's a beautiful city. It's growing very quickly, and the economy is booming. If you want to work in insurance, many of the cities' major employers are in finance (Chase, Nationwide, etc). Fairly affordable too.

How easy is it to get around Columbus without a vehicle?

[JA]

Chicago is by far the best of the bunch if Insurance is what you're looking for, take it from me!  Aon, CNA just to name a few..

Chicago's basically safe if you avoid the Southsude and other sketchy neighborhoods, yes? Like I asked another person about the Rwin Cities - what's the COL? How's the ratio of pay to rent + utilities?

[Badger]

If you're in insurance, you should really consider Columbus.  Minneapolis is wonderful.  Madison is wonderful.  Ann Arbor is lovely (and I say that even as a Spartan).  Grand Rapids has a very nice reputation.  I was born in Fort Wayne; I moved away when I was 4, so I don't personally know much about it, but even by Midwestern standards it has a reputation for being dull.

IMO, though, you can't go wrong, and I'm jealous you have that kind of flexibility!

Columbus is definitely on my list. It has a better economy than Ohio's other big cities, is attracting young people, has a large insurance job market, and is a relatively safe city. Have you been to Columbus before? And I know those other cities are all very popular and attractive, but aside from Grand Rapids they're on their way to becoming pretty pricey.

These are the cities I'd consider to be on my list right now (in no particular order)...

Grand Rapids, MI
Columbus, OH
Omaha, NE
Rochester, NY

Cities under consideration...

Bloomington, IL
Rochester, MN
Milwaukee, WI
Cleveland, OH
Buffalo, NY
Green Bay, WI
Des Moines, IA

Currently attending college in Columbus and I can say it's a beautiful city. It's growing very quickly, and the economy is booming. If you want to work in insurance, many of the cities' major employers are in finance (Chase, Nationwide, etc). Fairly affordable too.

How easy is it to get around Columbus without a vehicle?

Depends on what part of Columbus. The city is geographically huge (extends into parts of 3 counties), so it depends on where your home and employment are. There's a decent bus system, and biking is well received.

The Columbus area is pretty awesome. Unlike the other cities you have on your list (other than Champaign maybe?) the regional economy is growing. It's got a strong insurance, education, tech, and medical economy.  Not many realize this, but it'll soon be the 10th most populous city in the country. It doesn't quite feel that way, though, as it is so spread out it doesn't feel like people living on top of one another. Likewise, the metro area is comparatively small-population-wise. Franklin County has about the same pop as Cleveland and Hamilton, but with far less populous adjacent counties.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Chicago is by far the best of the bunch if Insurance is what you're looking for, take it from me!  Aon, CNA just to name a few..

Chicago's basically safe if you avoid the Southsude and other sketchy neighborhoods, yes? Like I asked another person about the Rwin Cities - what's the COL? How's the ratio of pay to rent + utilities?

Chicago isn't cheap.  But with a decent job you should be fine.  You can get around without a car very easily... the only city mentioned that you can do that in.

The Twin Cities are safe.  The big player there is it is the HQ of United HealthGroup (#6 on the Fortune 500)

[dead0man]

Minneapolis is 24% more expensive than Omaha, housing is 54% more.  cite (Chicago and Minneapolis are basically tied, FYI)

Columbus is cheaper than Omaha barely

Rochester is even cheaper but only because rent's are in the toilet, everything else is more expensive, but only slightly so.

Rochester is even cheaper than Des Moines cite, but not really. 


Why the hell is rents so low in Rochester?

[JA]

Minneapolis is 24% more expensive than Omaha, housing is 54% more.  cite (Chicago and Minneapolis are basically tied, FYI)

Columbus is cheaper than Omaha barely

Rochester is even cheaper but only because rent's are in the toilet, everything else is more expensive, but only slightly so.

Rochester is even cheaper than Des Moines cite, but not really. 


Why the hell is rents so low in Rochester?

I definitely think Omaha is one of the most beautiful Midwestern cities, based on pictures of course. But what about getting around without a vehicle? How difficult is it? I don't mind using lyft/uber now and then, since that'd still be cheaper than the costs of owning a vehicle.

[dead0man]

It's getting better, but it's much easier to have a car than not.  There is a bus system and I see "regular" (not just poors, olds and students) people using it, but I'm not sure how thorough it is. There is a decent bike path network and it's getting better every year too.  If you live and work downtown, which you can do for a reasonable amount, you probably don't need a car.  There are maybe 2 other neighborhoods where that's also true, but for the most part you're going to need a car....'cause even if you can bike to where you want to go, there will be some days where you just can't (cold/snow).

But I think that's pretty much true for everyplace you listed except Chicago.


(and car ownership isn't that expensive if you don't care what kind of car you drive )

[RINO Tom]

... The Columbus area is pretty awesome. Unlike the other cities you have on your list (other than Champaign maybe?)...

Not that knowledgeable about this, but I do remember hearing that - behind the relatively new exurbs of Chicago - Champaign is one of the fastest growing areas in the state and number one in Downstate (which includes the St. Louis suburbs and the relatively fast-growing and White collar Bloomington-Normal).  Again, I'm not sure about the economy so much, but as someone who goes to Champaign 2-3 times per year, the growth of development of both Downtown Champaign and Campustown over the last five years has been nothing short of stunning.

[Torie]

If you're looking for insurance jobs specifically, the Twin Cities will be your best bet by far in Minnesota.  There are some big players there. 

And the Twin Cities have 3 million but it's not "the big city" by any means.  Most of Minneapolis and St. Paul have a very "streetcar suburb" feel (developed in the 1900-1950 era). 

Much of it looks like this:


You would still drive to your nearby Target or Aldi.  St. Paul especially tries to maintain an air of "small town living in the city".

That's a nice looking street. Where exactly is it?

[FalloutBoy97]

If you're in insurance, you should really consider Columbus.  Minneapolis is wonderful.  Madison is wonderful.  Ann Arbor is lovely (and I say that even as a Spartan).  Grand Rapids has a very nice reputation.  I was born in Fort Wayne; I moved away when I was 4, so I don't personally know much about it, but even by Midwestern standards it has a reputation for being dull.

IMO, though, you can't go wrong, and I'm jealous you have that kind of flexibility!

Columbus is definitely on my list. It has a better economy than Ohio's other big cities, is attracting young people, has a large insurance job market, and is a relatively safe city. Have you been to Columbus before? And I know those other cities are all very popular and attractive, but aside from Grand Rapids they're on their way to becoming pretty pricey.

These are the cities I'd consider to be on my list right now (in no particular order)...

Grand Rapids, MI
Columbus, OH
Omaha, NE
Rochester, NY

Cities under consideration...

Bloomington, IL
Rochester, MN
Milwaukee, WI
Cleveland, OH
Buffalo, NY
Green Bay, WI
Des Moines, IA

Currently attending college in Columbus and I can say it's a beautiful city. It's growing very quickly, and the economy is booming. If you want to work in insurance, many of the cities' major employers are in finance (Chase, Nationwide, etc). Fairly affordable too.

How easy is it to get around Columbus without a vehicle?

Fairly easy. Obviously it's not NYC or Chicago (no metro system) but the roads are easy to bike along and the public metro buses aren't hard to find. Failing that, I usually rely on uber.

[Donerail]

Chicago is by far the best of the bunch if Insurance is what you're looking for, take it from me!  Aon, CNA just to name a few..

Chicago's basically safe if you avoid the Southside and other sketchy neighborhoods, yes? Like I asked another person about the Twin Cities - what's the COL? How's the ratio of pay to rent + utilities?

I've been living on what is technically the South Side (Hyde Park) for the past six months and I've never felt unsafe in my neighborhood. Crime in Chicago is very concentrated to certain neighborhoods (Austin, Lawndale, Garfield Park, Englewood, Back of the Yards, Grand Crossing, Gresham, Roseland) and certain streets, and if you're not affiliated with a gang people generally won't hassle you. There are bad neighborhoods, but they're generally not places you'll ever have any reason to go, and there are plenty of people on the North Side who are never directly affected by those parts of the city.

Even the bad neighborhoods aren't really no-go zones. Englewood is one of the roughest parts of the city and I certainly wouldn't recommend living there, but the Whole Foods in Englewood has cheap groceries and is fine during the day. Washington Park is another place where I'd never live, but there's a nice coffee shop on 55th that I like to study at and the 55th Red Line stop (isolated in the middle of the freeway) is safe at pretty much all hours. A lot of my friends live in Woodlawn north of 63rd, and Chatham (nowhere near as violent as most but still on the South Side and majority-black, so it often gets lumped in with the others) is safe and middle-class enough to draw a Target and a number of other big-box stores.

It is worth noting that there are a few neighborhoods on the South Side that aren't crime-ridden but that have a certain hostility towards outsiders (Mt. Greenwood and particularly Canaryville). If I were moving to Chicago, I'd definitely start by looking for cheap places on the North Side, but I wouldn't rule out Hyde Park or Bridgeport (Beverly is also lovely but mostly single-family homes—probably best for owning, not renting).

As for cost of living, it's not as cheap as other Midwestern cities, but it's very reasonable by big-city standards. You can get a one-bedroom apartment (including utilities) for $800 in Hyde Park, but if you're willing to spend $1200 you can probably get a nice studio apartment (central heat, decent internet) in a neighborhood not full of college students. Groceries aren't bad if you shop at reasonable places (Aldi or TJ's instead of Whole Foods), and if you're living close to public transit the CTA is adequate, far cheaper than a car, and entirely safe (I’m white, 19, obviously a college student, and I’ve taken the 55 through Englewood at 4am without incident). I don’t own a bike, but my friends who do say biking in the city is fine.

As for the city itself, there’s obviously plenty of stuff to do, including stuff that’s cheap/free. The city is big, but not in a way that’s overwhelming, and it’s really only as big as you choose to make it (I’ve met people who were born in Little Village who’ve never been to the Loop). More museums than you could visit, though, so you’ll never get bored. I also haven’t had any serious weather issues, though we’re going through a remarkably mild winter. The economy is fine, and as Green Line mentioned, the job market is fine (CNA, Aon, Kemper). All in all, a great place to live, and definitely much easier to live affordably in Chicago than in NYC/San Francisco.