HOUSE BILL The Protection From False Sexual... (Debating)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Atlasian People's House of Representatives
Pending
[/quote]

Sponsor: Haslam2020
House Designation: HB 1139 (since I seem to have skipped that number)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The sponsor has 24 hours to commence an advocacy here and the members have and additional 48 hours to post initial comments, concerns, etc.

[Former Senator Haslam2020]

Sadly, it starting to become "normal" for cases where someone's life is destroyed based on false accusations, just from people out to get attention or money. I believe anyone who lies about this stuff, you know and it's proven, deserves to have the consequences addressed out in this bill. This bill has a great chance of eliminating this problem altogether, Please vote for this bill, to vote for justice.

[fhtagn]

I like the intent behind this bill, and wholeheartedly agree that if you lie about something like this, you should be punished.

That being said, how will it be determined whether or not the person who made the accusation lied? Will it only be based off said person confessing to the lie?

And while I agree that some punishment should be dealt for this, I'm not sure if I agree with the "eye for an eye" idea behind this. Depending on the circumstances, I can see this being an unreasonably harsh punishment for dishonesty.

[JGibson]

I have to share my fellow colleague fhtagn's concerns about this bill.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I agree there must be a more solid standard for making a determination of whether someone has lied.

[CMB222]

I agree there must be a more solid standard for making a determination of whether someone has lied.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

We need to have a set definition for false sexual lie.


When it comes to the standard, you kind of almost need a process that involves a criminal prosecution and then someone being acquitted. But then you run the risk of witnesses not wanting to testify in cases that a rapist is on trial. So it is difficult balancing act.

[Former Senator Haslam2020]

The determining that if a lie occurred shall be made by the police, and with solid evidence.

A definition could be written soon

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The determining that if a lie occurred shall be made by the police, and with solid evidence.

A definition could be written soon

I think it has to be established by a court proceeding.

[Former Senator Haslam2020]

Oh, let's do that then

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Not to be rude, but why is this necessary? Perjury is already a crime, after all; I'm afraid I don't see why sexual assault needs its own special law against false testimony.

[Mike Thick]

Not to be rude, but why is this necessary? Perjury is already a crime, after all; I'm afraid I don't see why sexual assault needs its own special law against false testimony.

This. In addition, I would argue that the culture of victim-blaming in incidents where sexual assault does take place is a far more pressing issue, and this bill would just compound that, providing further incentive for these horrendous crimes to go unreported.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Not to be rude, but why is this necessary? Perjury is already a crime, after all; I'm afraid I don't see why sexual assault needs its own special law against false testimony.

This. In addition, I would argue that the culture of victim-blaming in incidents where sexual assault does take place is a far more pressing issue, and this bill would just compound that, providing further incentive for these horrendous crimes to go unreported.

I agree with this concern, hence why I mentioned three days ago that whatever is done, it cannot impede the prosecution and investigation of serious crimes of rape and sexual assault that occur every single day in this country.

I would also note that the damaging aspects of the false accusations of crime occur in relation to more laws than just those pertaining to sexual misconduct and so it is a mistake to singularly focus on those and those alone.

I think at this point, this should be amended to a bill that increases the penalties for perjury for all crimes. While at the same time providing more protections for witnesses of all crimes. This will help both put away lawbreakers and also help with those who are wrongly accused/convicted, as there are a number of instances where people were convicted of murder but there were witnesses who could have provided testimony that exonerated them, but weren't called.

If ones concern is the protection of people from wrongful prosecutions and even more importantly, wrongful conviction, then we should do everything possible to protect and encourage witnesses to come forward and tell the truth.   

[Former Senator Haslam2020]

I believe there shouldn't leniency towards people who lie about this kind of stuff. This does nothing to stop the reporting, just I believe an amendment should be made that if evidence is found that the crime did not happen and the victim was lying, they shouldn't just get away with it.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I believe there shouldn't leniency towards people who lie about this kind of stuff. This does nothing to stop the reporting, just I believe an amendment should be made that if evidence is found that the crime did not happen and the victim was lying, they shouldn't just get away with it.

Again, perjury is already a crime. I would appreciate an explanation as to why false accusations of sexual assault are special (i.e. Why is this not the "Protection from False Murder Imprisonment and Labeling Act"?), and why current penalties for lying under oath are insufficient.

[Mike Thick]

Not to be rude, but why is this necessary? Perjury is already a crime, after all; I'm afraid I don't see why sexual assault needs its own special law against false testimony.

This. In addition, I would argue that the culture of victim-blaming in incidents where sexual assault does take place is a far more pressing issue, and this bill would just compound that, providing further incentive for these horrendous crimes to go unreported.

I agree with this concern, hence why I mentioned three days ago that whatever is done, it cannot impede the prosecution and investigation of serious crimes of rape and sexual assault that occur every single day in this country.

I would also note that the damaging aspects of the false accusations of crime occur in relation to more laws than just those pertaining to sexual misconduct and so it is a mistake to singularly focus on those and those alone.

I think at this point, this should be amended to a bill that increases the penalties for perjury for all crimes. While at the same time providing more protections for witnesses of all crimes. This will help both put away lawbreakers and also help with those who are wrongly accused/convicted, as there are a number of instances where people were convicted of murder but there were witnesses who could have provided testimony that exonerated them, but weren't called.

If ones concern is the protection of people from wrongful prosecutions and even more importantly, wrongful conviction, then we should do everything possible to protect and encourage witnesses to come forward and tell the truth.   

I think this is a far more reasonable alternative.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I believe there shouldn't leniency towards people who lie about this kind of stuff. This does nothing to stop the reporting, just I believe an amendment should be made that if evidence is found that the crime did not happen and the victim was lying, they shouldn't just get away with it.

Again, perjury is already a crime. I would appreciate an explanation as to why false accusations of sexual assault are special (i.e. Why is this not the "Protection from False Murder Imprisonment and Labeling Act"?), and why current penalties for lying under oath are insufficient.

Am I assume current "federal statutes", are the same as real life?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1621

I would note also that if I am not mistaken, the crimes of rape, murder and the like are "state level" crimes, is that not also correct?

Therefore we would be limited regardless in terms of beefing up penalties for perjury, to just those crimes that under the purview of federal statute, or am I misinterpreting the above statute when it says, "in any case in which a law of the United States authorizes an oath to be administered..."?

Basically is the oath itself, to tell the truth in a criminal prosecution of a state level crime, a federally established penalty even when the underlying case itself is state level?

[Former Senator Haslam2020]

I have decided to withdraw this bill, or well.. This version of the bill.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I have decided to withdraw this bill, or well.. This version of the bill.

Representatives have 72 hours to assume sponsorship.


I would still like my question to the Attorney General answered as it would help guide a subsequent bill dealing with Perjury reform and action curbing wrongful prosecution/conviction.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This has been withdrawn.