2016 with no foreign interference, post maps

[Inmate Trump]

How do you think the election would've played out had Trump not made a deal with Putin to win the election, and also if Comey hadn't attempted his own election hijack?

Clinton: 323
Trump: 209
McMullin: 6

[DPKdebator]

[uti2]

Does the 2008 election with UK regulators deciding to let Lehman fail at the last minute count as 'foreign interference?

Before the economic collapse, Obama hadn't led Mccain once in FL, NC, IN or VA. On top of that they were neck and neck in OH, NV and NH.

Also, what about the irony in Russian media praising Obama v. Clinton/Mccain in 2008 and Romney in 2012?

[Fuzzy Says: "Abolish NPR!"]

Trump/Pence (R) 279
Clinton/Kaine (D) 259

Given the margin Trump carried PA by, I don't think he'd have lost that.  Something was going on there that transcended our courtesy peek into the souls of Hillary, Podesta, Palmeiri, et al.

[🕴🏼Melior🕴🏼]

^^

LOL you guys are delusional

Hillary Clinton: 308 EV's
Donald Trump: 230 EV's

Maybe give or take FL

[Goldwater]

FFS, do you people really believe tht Russia is the reason Trump carried the Rust Belt? lol

[Mr. Morden]

Trump/Pence (R) 279
Clinton/Kaine (D) 259

Given the margin Trump carried PA by, I don't think he'd have lost that.  Something was going on there that transcended our courtesy peek into the souls of Hillary, Podesta, Palmeiri, et al.

%age-wise, the margin in Wisconsin was bigger.  Pennsylvania was only a bigger margin in raw vote #s because it's a bigger state population-wise, and hence more people voted.

[🕴🏼Melior🕴🏼]

FFS, do you people really believe tht Russia is the reason Trump carried the Rust Belt? lol

No, but read the OP. This is without Comey's interference. Without Comey's interference in the election, Hillary would've obviously beaten Donald Trump.

[hopper]

FFS, do you people really believe tht Russia is the reason Trump carried the Rust Belt? lol

No, but read the OP. This is without Comey's interference. Without Comey's interference in the election, Hillary would've obviously beaten Donald Trump.

Even filmmaker Michael Moore doesn't believe lost the election because of Comey.

[White Trash]

FFS, do you people really believe tht Russia is the reason Trump carried the Rust Belt? lol

No, but read the OP. This is without Comey's interference. Without Comey's interference in the election, Hillary would've obviously beaten Donald Trump.

Even filmmaker Michael Moore doesn't believe lost the election because of Comey.

I would say most folks who aren't armchair political analysts would agree with that.

[🕴🏼Melior🕴🏼]

Do you guys realize how close this election was? This election was decided by a total of ~100,000 votes in 3 states (MI, WI, and PA). This was one of the closest elections in history. Before Comey's interference, Clinton was ahead of Donald Trump nationally by an average of around 5 points. After Comey's interference, Hillary's nationwide polling average dropped to around a 2 point lead. Her polling average dropped by around 3 points nationwide after Comey.

Donald Trump would've obviously lost if it weren't for Comey. Anyone who believes otherwise is a delusional hack.

[nicholas.slaydon]

[Mr. Morden]

Before Comey's interference, Clinton was ahead of Donald Trump nationally by an average of around 5 points. After Comey's interference, Hillary's nationwide polling average dropped to around a 2 point lead. Her polling average dropped by around 3 points nationwide after Comey.

But how much of that was Clinton dropping as opposed to Trump gaining at the expense of Johnson and Undecided?  What's unclear to me is how much movement from Johnson and Undecided to Trump was going to happen as the election approached regardless of what campaign events were occurring.

[Mr. Smith]

This.

NC is screwed for Hillary 'cuz of Hurricane Matthew, Obamacare hikes stop AZ from going the whole way.

[Pericles]

Trump won the Rust Belt by less than 1%. A 1% swing to Clinton would have given her the presidency.

[Deblano]

Trump won the Rust Belt by less than 1%. A 1% swing to Clinton would have given her the presidency.

[Badger]

Trump won the Rust Belt by less than 1%. A 1% swing to Clinton would have given her the presidency.

[Confused Democrat]

[NOVA Green]

FFS, do you people really believe tht Russia is the reason Trump carried the Rust Belt? lol

No, but read the OP. This is without Comey's interference. Without Comey's interference in the election, Hillary would've obviously beaten Donald Trump.

Even filmmaker Michael Moore doesn't believe lost the election because of Comey.

I would say most folks who aren't armchair political analysts would agree with that.

I'm actually in a bit of agreement with White Trash on this one....

Clinton lost the election most fundamentally, because despite the plethora of policy positions that in many ways would have benefited many of the Obama 1x/2x voters in key swing states, she wasn't able to close the deal on fundamental economic based items in a region where it mattered the most.

Fuzzy Bear and Mr Morden throw up a few interesting items for discussion as well, but regardless of the WI/PA flip and MI being Dem, it still would be a Trump EC victory....

I for one, am not convinced the Russian interference in the elections (Which definitely happened in a variety of ways) changed the electoral outcome in the 2016 Presidential General Election.

It's easy to blame Comey for his BS interference in a Presidential Election, and considering how the founder of the FBI was known to manipulate/blackmail, etc it is obviously 100% inappropriate to jump in knowing that the very integrity and post Church Hearings era to move from a perceived "Non-Partisan" office could/would impact the election results in 2016.

It is a dramatic stretch to say that Comey was somehow on the take of the Russians.

Now the OP's question involved "no foreign interference"....  I think outside of a few partisan hacks it is indisputable that Russia hacked the DNC. Emails were released as part of that hacking that were deliberately designed to enhance existing divisions within the Democratic Party between the Clinton and Bernie factions of the Party....

We can all debate and argue until the cows come home about the results of all that.... but I think it would definitely have pushed Clinton over the edge in Wisconsin and Michigan, and even possibly in AZ,NC, & FL.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

A Pyhrric victory for HRC who would quickly sink to François Hollande like levels in the polls, and lose the 2018 midterms in a blowout that would make 2010 and 2014 look like walks in the park.

[Phony Moderate]

Maybe she would have won, but then maybe Trump would have won the PV without Pussygate. Events happen in election campaigns.

[Inmate Trump]

Maybe she would have won, but then maybe Trump would have won the PV without Pussygate. Events happen in election campaigns.

No he wouldn't have.

[elcorazon]

^^

LOL you guys are delusional

Hillary Clinton: 308 EV's
Donald Trump: 230 EV's

Maybe give or take FL

give or take NC as well

[Kingpoleon]

How do you think the election would've played out had Trump not made a deal with Putin to win the election, and also if Comey hadn't attempted his own election hijack?

Clinton: 323
Trump: 209
McMullin: 6

Neither of those happened.

[Inmate Trump]

How do you think the election would've played out had Trump not made a deal with Putin to win the election, and also if Comey hadn't attempted his own election hijack?

Clinton: 323
Trump: 209
McMullin: 6

Neither of those happened.

Uh, yea they both did. Have you been living under a rock? Or is Breitbart the only place you get your news from? There is a general consensus among people who aren't insane Trump voters that these absolutely did happen.