Something-gate: Trump claims Obama bugged Trump Tower.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

This is a man who has believed every conspiracy theory about Obama that he has ever heard.

It's funny that this thread has more personal attacks on the messenger because the other side is still trying to form a consensus: is Trump a lying idiot who is simply making this up? Or is it true and should be defended as a good thing?

Either way, he has a consistent track record of being proven right in phony scandal after scandal, so I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

Are you high or suffering from a head injury? Serious question.

Oh, you seem to have gone completely silent in this thread. Are you tucking tail and crawling away in admission you once again defended the unhinged loon in chief, or is your mouth just full with Trump's balls again?

I really don't get what I'm ducking. I posted Trump's allegations. What about this story has so many of you guys obsessed with me? I've got classes to attend, papers to write, and midterms to study for.The media constantly accuses Trump of twisting the facts or making them up all together. The usual suspects sneered and jeered as the very suggestion of "alternate facts.' They hold a monopoly on fact and aren't held to the same standards when called to defend their "facts."

Of course, I'll humor you at this point. What evidence has the media shown to prove that this isn't true? Because I've seen plenty, including from literal Senators, that suggests the bugging not only occurred but that evidence collected exists, and that the content of which has been disseminated among the top brass in Washington.

So, while the media decided that this is a big fat nothingburger, the rest of the entrenched opposition in Washington is still trying to decide whether Trump is a pro-Russian plant or a lying idiot who just made this up. They can't make up their minds. It's hard to respond to posts across a thirteen page thread when the green and red (and a few self-righteous, unimportant blue guys too) avatars can't decide if he's a cold calculating threat or a blustering idiot.

Let's look at what we know. We know that a court had originally rejected a request to bug Trump, the very pro-Trump NYT is reporting that the White House Counsel is actively trying to get a hold of a copy of the warrant issued. The Justice Department, which likes to pretend it has a history of relative autonomy within the executive branch (lol), has reacted by putting up a pretense of concern.

Of course, as we know, the Justice Department is no den of angels. Not. At. All.

So right now, we're awaiting the warrant being dug up. There is probably a lot of internal resistance in the Justice Department as the middle tier Obama appointees held over to keep the Department operational until the Deputy/Under-Secretaries are appointed. Trump obviously isn't happy over some of these issues. Which by the way, leads me to another point: how is it that every major or minor internal disturbance somehow finds it's ways into the papers and
TV broadcasts, complete with transcripts and videos?

While the media seems to enjoy the Trump tapes leaking from the West Wing, Senator Chris Coons (D-DE) quietly confirmed that the wiretaps were in place. According to Senator Chris Coons:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

So, Trump was wiretapped and transcripts exist according to Chris Coons, though he walked back those statements yesterday. The Senate Intelligence Committee, according to Coons, will be receiving the relevant intelligence but these hearings will be held behind closed doors. So, in other words, Coons has once again basically confirmed that Trump was indeed bugged, though he keeps wavering over whether or not there are any transcripts.

The New York Times says there is no confirmed evidence. Chris Coons is basically saying that a wiretap was conducted and that something apparently is there. Seeing as how Flynn fell, how every single thing that happens in the White House leaks to the press, and how just this weekend literal video of Trump raging around the Oval Office surfaced, I think it is safe to say that there is a very complex and most likely informal ring of spies around Trump reporting their findings to rogue elements of the intelligence community, which historically has long operated independently and has pursued their own agenda in defiance of President after President. I see no reason why I should believe them over Trump, aside from the media and Badger telling me "because you have too!"

Something is coming out.

Trump would not have reacted like this unless he had some inside info.

LOL

Trump reacts like this when he sees something on Fox News and likes it. He's like a dog chasing a car.

Quoted for posterity. I am not a betting man, but I think Trump has the inside info on this one revealing information on the locations that have been tapped. He probably asked if Trump Tower was ever tapped and found out it was.

We will just have to wait and see.

He tried to find out..

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Probably it was Trumps famous instincts. He knew that an investigation was coming. The FISA order would eventually be leaked to the media and they would likely use it as evidence or indication of collaboration with Russia. The best defense is a [good] offense. Instead Trump could use this order now, if exists, as "evidence" of Nixonian "witch-hunt". Right or not, fair or not, America is so polarized that it could work [perceived that way] fairly well for Trump.

With "instincts" like the ones on display during the past week, I can see how he went bankrupt so many times.  Btw, if McGahn was doing that then he's probably gonna find himself in serious legal trouble as well since that'd be a pretty blatant example of interfering with an active investigation (presumably with the intention to tamper with evidence).

[Hermit For Peace]

What. a. disgrace. Every. single. day. I hope the investigations on Russia and Drumpf’s conflicts of interest move on quickly to find grounds for impeachment. Let Pence take over. As much as I disagree on his positions, he knows how to handle the presidency and does not question our democracy.

America’s first orange president is in no regard up to the job. Instead of working on behalf of us, the citizens, he’s tweeting about Schwarzenegger’s ratings like a five-year old schoolyard bully and making all sorts of crap up (Obama wiretapped me, election was rigged, Sweden was attacked, media doesn’t report on attacks, courts are rigged, I’m the most successful prez in first four weeks (LOL!), most attendees on inauguration etc. (have I forgotten something since Jan. 20?)).
The faker-in-chief should focus on real problems like climate change (oh sorry for mentioning, it doesn’t exist, I forgot), income inequality (but I guess it will trickle down, just like under Reagan), restoring our relation with Mexico instead of building a stupid wall (sorry, forgot that Mexicans are ripping us really big league. On trade and at the border, they laugh at us, at our stupidity), improve our health care (I assume everything is just fine by repealing Obamacare and a “phenomenal plan”) or a nuclear disarm treaty (forgot that everything will just be fine when we increase our nuclear arsenal. We have to, since the current one doesn’t even work (according to Drumpf, announcement speech-June 16, 2015)). Not to mention answering questions on Russia (but I suppose that’s all fake news made up by the dishonest and corrupt media). I seriously question: How low have we gone with this president? Bad (or sick) guy! Sad!

Nice rant. I agree with you!

[EnglishPete]

The New York Times and the rest of the liberal media say there's no evidence the Trump campaign was wiretapped. Where on earth could he have got such an idea from?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

The New York Times and the rest of the liberal media say there's no evidence the Trump campaign was wiretapped. Where on earth could he have got such an idea from?

And why is Chris Coons requesting transcripts, presumably of the same information that leaked to the Times?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

This is a man who has believed every conspiracy theory about Obama that he has ever heard.

It's funny that this thread has more personal attacks on the messenger because the other side is still trying to form a consensus: is Trump a lying idiot who is simply making this up? Or is it true and should be defended as a good thing?

Either way, he has a consistent track record of being proven right in phony scandal after scandal, so I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

The man launched his political career by being wrong about an Obama conspiracy theory.

Trump launched his career with obnoxious media stunts. I'm not going to pretend to condone that stuff. Does that mean I should have voted for career criminal and literally evil person Hillary Clinton instead?

Don't for a second pretend you're in the reluctant Trump supporter camp.
[/quote]
Missed this one. Far from it, though. Trump is exactly the type of match we needed to throw on the increasingly large pile of gunpowder that the outgoing world order represented. I'm not going to pretend for a minute that he's going to be a traditional statesmen. To me, his purpose is to serve as a transitional figure to ensure that the GOP becomes a party of national conservatism and America becomes a regional powerhouse as opposed to an overstretched, crumbling empire.

[Reaganfan]

This is a man who has believed every conspiracy theory about Obama that he has ever heard.

It's funny that this thread has more personal attacks on the messenger because the other side is still trying to form a consensus: is Trump a lying idiot who is simply making this up? Or is it true and should be defended as a good thing?

Either way, he has a consistent track record of being proven right in phony scandal after scandal, so I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

The man launched his political career by being wrong about an Obama conspiracy theory.

Trump launched his career with obnoxious media stunts. I'm not going to pretend to condone that stuff. Does that mean I should have voted for career criminal and literally evil person Hillary Clinton instead?

Don't for a second pretend you're in the reluctant Trump supporter camp.

Missed this one. Far from it, though. Trump is exactly the type of match we needed to throw on the increasingly large pile of gunpowder that the outgoing world order represented. I'm not going to pretend for a minute that he's going to be a traditional statesmen. To me, his purpose is to serve as a transitional figure to ensure that the GOP becomes a party of national conservatism and America becomes a regional powerhouse as opposed to an overstretched, crumbling empire.
[/quote]

Exactly. Globalism was getting out of hand. We needed Trump to stop the slide.

[President Johnson]

What. a. disgrace. Every. single. day. I hope the investigations on Russia and Drumpf’s conflicts of interest move on quickly to find grounds for impeachment. Let Pence take over. As much as I disagree on his positions, he knows how to handle the presidency and does not question our democracy.

America’s first orange president is in no regard up to the job. Instead of working on behalf of us, the citizens, he’s tweeting about Schwarzenegger’s ratings like a five-year old schoolyard bully and making all sorts of crap up (Obama wiretapped me, election was rigged, Sweden was attacked, media doesn’t report on attacks, courts are rigged, I’m the most successful prez in first four weeks (LOL!), most attendees on inauguration etc. (have I forgotten something since Jan. 20?)).
The faker-in-chief should focus on real problems like climate change (oh sorry for mentioning, it doesn’t exist, I forgot), income inequality (but I guess it will trickle down, just like under Reagan), restoring our relation with Mexico instead of building a stupid wall (sorry, forgot that Mexicans are ripping us really big league. On trade and at the border, they laugh at us, at our stupidity), improve our health care (I assume everything is just fine by repealing Obamacare and a “phenomenal plan”) or a nuclear disarm treaty (forgot that everything will just be fine when we increase our nuclear arsenal. We have to, since the current one doesn’t even work (according to Drumpf, announcement speech-June 16, 2015)). Not to mention answering questions on Russia (but I suppose that’s all fake news made up by the dishonest and corrupt media). I seriously question: How low have we gone with this president? Bad (or sick) guy! Sad!

Nice rant. I agree with you!

Agreed. But impeachment is wishful thinking. At least as of now. I don't like to say it, but it is.

[Torie]

This is a man who has believed every conspiracy theory about Obama that he has ever heard.

It's funny that this thread has more personal attacks on the messenger because the other side is still trying to form a consensus: is Trump a lying idiot who is simply making this up? Or is it true and should be defended as a good thing?

Either way, he has a consistent track record of being proven right in phony scandal after scandal, so I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

The man launched his political career by being wrong about an Obama conspiracy theory.

Trump launched his career with obnoxious media stunts. I'm not going to pretend to condone that stuff. Does that mean I should have voted for career criminal and literally evil person Hillary Clinton instead?

Don't for a second pretend you're in the reluctant Trump supporter camp.

Missed this one. Far from it, though. Trump is exactly the type of match we needed to throw on the increasingly large pile of gunpowder that the outgoing world order represented. I'm not going to pretend for a minute that he's going to be a traditional statesmen. To me, his purpose is to serve as a transitional figure to ensure that the GOP becomes a party of national conservatism and America becomes a regional powerhouse as opposed to an overstretched, crumbling empire.

Exactly. Globalism was getting out of hand. We needed Trump to stop the slide.
[/quote]

Globalism is going to deal with Trump the way a tsunami deals with driftwood. The idea that he can do much about it, other than bitch about it, and the largely non-existent good old days, is just ludicrous. Granted, a couple of nasty trade wars, and a bunch of jobs lost, and so forth, might happen before Trump gets the memo, and/or his fans dump him and move on to the next demagogue. We shall see.

[Hermit For Peace]

Here's my question: WHY would Obama even want to wiretap Trump's offices?

Obama treated Trump as a big JOKE the whole way through the campaign.

What possible reason was there for Obama to fear Trump, who is the biggest con and jokster of all time?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

This is a man who has believed every conspiracy theory about Obama that he has ever heard.

It's funny that this thread has more personal attacks on the messenger because the other side is still trying to form a consensus: is Trump a lying idiot who is simply making this up? Or is it true and should be defended as a good thing?

Either way, he has a consistent track record of being proven right in phony scandal after scandal, so I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

The man launched his political career by being wrong about an Obama conspiracy theory.

Trump launched his career with obnoxious media stunts. I'm not going to pretend to condone that stuff. Does that mean I should have voted for career criminal and literally evil person Hillary Clinton instead?

Don't for a second pretend you're in the reluctant Trump supporter camp.

Missed this one. Far from it, though. Trump is exactly the type of match we needed to throw on the increasingly large pile of gunpowder that the outgoing world order represented. I'm not going to pretend for a minute that he's going to be a traditional statesmen. To me, his purpose is to serve as a transitional figure to ensure that the GOP becomes a party of national conservatism and America becomes a regional powerhouse as opposed to an overstretched, crumbling empire.

Exactly. Globalism was getting out of hand. We needed Trump to stop the slide.

Globalism is going to deal with Trump the way a tsunami deals with driftwood. The idea that he can do much about it, other than bitch about it, and the largely non-existent good old days, is just ludicrous. Granted, a couple of nasty trade wars, and a bunch of jobs lost, and so forth, might happen before Trump gets the memo, and/or his fans dump him and move on to the next demagogue. We shall see.
[/quote]

I'm not so confident. Sure, Trump can't turn the globalism train around, but he can run it off the rails, crash it, or blow it up. That (hundreds of) millions of people would suffer isn't going to concern him or his cult one little bit.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I see notorious poltroon Badger has gone silent

[MasterJedi]

Trump trying to manufacture a way to arrest Obama. He has nothing, FBI should be working on the Trump file now.

[Hermit For Peace]

What in hell is Trump's game? The guy is a confirmed sicko for sure.

This guy is not going to last a full term in office. It's not even been two months and he's already acting like a deranged idiot.

[Hindsight was 2020]

What in hell is Trump's game? The guy is a confirmed sicko for sure.

This guy is not going to last a full term in office. It's not even been two months and he's already acting like a deranged idiot.

Check twitter sadly many of his supporters/RWers are now convinced that Obama is sabotaging him. All the man is is a bomb thrower, he leads through revenge politics an "us vs them". He pretty much is a walking RW comment section

[Hermit For Peace]

What in hell is Trump's game? The guy is a confirmed sicko for sure.

This guy is not going to last a full term in office. It's not even been two months and he's already acting like a deranged idiot.

Check twitter sadly many of his supporters/RWers are now convinced that Obama is sabotaging him. All the man is is a bomb thrower, he leads through revenge politics an "us vs them". He pretty much is a walking RW comment section

Does anyone ever give any reasoning as to why they think Obama is after Trump? I mean, Trump is a nobody compared to Obama. Trump has nothing. Especially why would anyone want to wiretap him? There's nothing there to see.

[Hindsight was 2020]

What in hell is Trump's game? The guy is a confirmed sicko for sure.

This guy is not going to last a full term in office. It's not even been two months and he's already acting like a deranged idiot.

Check twitter sadly many of his supporters/RWers are now convinced that Obama is sabotaging him. All the man is is a bomb thrower, he leads through revenge politics an "us vs them". He pretty much is a walking RW comment section

Does anyone ever give any reasoning as to why they think Obama is after Trump? I mean, Trump is a nobody compared to Obama. Trump has nothing. Especially why would anyone want to wiretap him? There's nothing there to see.

Because MAGA or something stupid like that

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

What in hell is Trump's game? The guy is a confirmed sicko for sure.

This guy is not going to last a full term in office. It's not even been two months and he's already acting like a deranged idiot.

Check twitter sadly many of his supporters/RWers are now convinced that Obama is sabotaging him. All the man is is a bomb thrower, he leads through revenge politics an "us vs them". He pretty much is a walking RW comment section

Does anyone ever give any reasoning as to why they think Obama is after Trump? I mean, Trump is a nobody compared to Obama. Trump has nothing. Especially why would anyone want to wiretap him? There's nothing there to see.

Because, were their places reversed, Trump would absolutely have illegally ordered some underlings to spy on Obama.

And while it in no way counts as proof, it makes one more tic-mark for me in the "Trump actively colluded with the Russians" column.

[Badger]

Trump would not have reacted like this unless he had some inside info.

Did he also have inside info on Ted Cruz's dad assassinating JFK?

Or Obama's Birth Certificate?

Or the "Millions of illegal voters in California" that robbed him of his popular vote majority?

Or the bused in Massachusetts voters who stole Kelly Ayotte's re-election?

Or the Bowling Green Massacre?

Or the non-existent Swedish terrorist attack?

Or literally 95% of everything he has ever said at anytime?

Get his balls out of your mouth and recognize the harsh reality that he is an unhinged narcissistic paranoid conspiracy-monger, whom if he was living in a trailer park instead of the White House would likely have the county Adult Protective Services checking up on him. 

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

This is a very serious accusation which could land a president behind bars.  I don't know if he was really spied on, but if so there would have to be significant evidence of very serious crimes.  It's going to look really bad if Trump calls for an investigation now and nothing is found.  However, the skeptics who are calling Trump a flat out liar must reason with the following.


"Wiretapped data used in inquiry of Trump aides.  Examining Russian ties.  Business dealings of campaign Advisers are investigated."  (New York Times Jan.20, 2017)

No. The problem with Sessions relations with the Russian Ambassador was that he LIED to Congress about it, not the conversations themselves. There is nothing wrong with the FBI, CIA, NSA, and Treasury wire-tapping Trump and/or his associates shady contacts with Russia as part of an ongoing investigation. The problem would come in if Obama ORDERED an illegal investigation of his opponent. Something for which there is NO EVIDENCE.

Trumpy's claim is the equivalent to me saying that because some children were taken from their parents, YOU must be a kidnapper. And that if you want to try to refute the claim that you're guilty of kidnapping and human trafficking, you must reason with the following:

"Separated from their parents and families. Alone, scared and severely distressed. No idea where their parents are.
More than 14,000 children have been separated from their parents." (ITV, Feb. 8, 2017)

Trump is a flat out liar, on this and many, many other topics. Where are his taxes?

[Inmate Trump]

Are you actually dumb enough to not realise that this if this were true it'd be extremely damning for Comrade Trump

You don't find a presidential candidate being bugged by the President in the name of "national security" and the CIA a little familiar? You haven't heard this story before?

This is just another conspiracy theory with zero evidence, and it is not being backed by the intelligence community.

You know what IS being backed by the intelligence community? That Trump and his team colluded with Russia to win the election.

And anyway, even if the wiretapping did happen, you just said it was in the name of national security. Wouldn't a presidential campaign working with a foreign power to hack our election system be a threat to our national security?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Are you actually dumb enough to not realise that this if this were true it'd be extremely damning for Comrade Trump

You don't find a presidential candidate being bugged by the President in the name of "national security" and the CIA a little familiar? You haven't heard this story before?

This is just another conspiracy theory with zero evidence, and it is not being backed by the intelligence community.

You know what IS being backed by the intelligence community? That Trump and his team colluded with Russia to win the election.

And anyway, even if the wiretapping did happen, you just said it was in the name of national security. Wouldn't a presidential campaign working with a foreign power to hack our election system be a threat to our national security?

Finks the intelligence agencies. Remember this place called Iraq? The intelligence agencies have already borderline flirted with treason numerous times before and they will do so again if not reigned in.

[EnglishPete]

Are you actually dumb enough to not realise that this if this were true it'd be extremely damning for Comrade Trump

You don't find a presidential candidate being bugged by the President in the name of "national security" and the CIA a little familiar? You haven't heard this story before?

This is just another conspiracy theory with zero evidence, and it is not being backed by the intelligence community.

Well James Comey and James Clapper have assured us that no such bugging of Trump or his campaign or Trump Tower took place. What a relief to learn from them that all those breathless reports in the likes of New York Times and the Guardian about Trump associates being wiretapped as part of ongoing investigations into links with Russia were just fake news.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Wow, that's a huge charge to make! Presumably if the intelligence community had good reason to believe this was going on they would have been duty bound to investigate it further. If this were the case then they should have gone to a FISA court and got permission to start wiretapping/bugging the campaign. It would have been incredibly remiss of them to fail to do this if they really believed that such a conspiracy was going on. So were they remiss at their jobs in this way or was it perhaps there was no good reason for them to think that such a conspiracy was going on?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Wow. You think that Comey and Clapper might be lying about there being no such wiretapping. Why would they do that? If they are lying in order to try to refute President Trump's accusation then who might they be covering up for with those lies? If they're not lying then that would imply that they thought that there was no such threat to US national security. So which do you think it is?

[Hermit For Peace]

What in hell is Trump's game? The guy is a confirmed sicko for sure.

This guy is not going to last a full term in office. It's not even been two months and he's already acting like a deranged idiot.

Check twitter sadly many of his supporters/RWers are now convinced that Obama is sabotaging him. All the man is is a bomb thrower, he leads through revenge politics an "us vs them". He pretty much is a walking RW comment section

Does anyone ever give any reasoning as to why they think Obama is after Trump? I mean, Trump is a nobody compared to Obama. Trump has nothing. Especially why would anyone want to wiretap him? There's nothing there to see.

Just read an article from NPR that answers my question. It's Trump's possible Russian ties that have captured the interest of the intelligence community.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/06/518797121/faq-on-alleged-wire-taps-of-trump-communications

[EnglishPete]

Are you actually dumb enough to not realise that this if this were true it'd be extremely damning for Comrade Trump

You don't find a presidential candidate being bugged by the President in the name of "national security" and the CIA a little familiar? You haven't heard this story before?

This is just another conspiracy theory with zero evidence, and it is not being backed by the intelligence community.

Well James Comey and James Clapper have assured us that no such bugging of Trump or his campaign or Trump Tower took place. What a relief to learn from them that all those breathless reports in the likes of New York Times and the Guardian about Trump associates being wiretapped as part of ongoing investigations into links with Russia were just fake news.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Wow, that's a huge charge to make! Presumably if the intelligence community had good reason to believe this was going on they would have been duty bound to investigate it further. If this were the case then they should have gone to a FISA court and got permission to start wiretapping/bugging the campaign. It would have been incredibly remiss of them to fail to do this if they really believed that such a conspiracy was going on. So were they remiss at their jobs in this way or was it perhaps there was no good reason for them to think that such a conspiracy was going on?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Wow. You think that Comey and Clapper might be lying about there being no such wiretapping. Why would they do that? If they are lying in order to try to refute President Trump's accusation then who might they be covering up for with those lies? If they're not lying then that would imply that they thought that there was no such threat to US national security. So which do you think it is?

This whole absurd narrative about Trump and the Russians getting together to 'hack the election' is based on what exactly? Various 'leaks' and stories about 'wiretapping' investigations of key Trump people who were being investigated by various security agencies? Well the likes of Comey and Clapper have just tried to persuade us that no such 'bugging' took place, and even in the original stories it said that these investigations found no evidence of criminality.

Then there's all those 'meetings' between Trump people and Russians. Those turned out to be nothingburgers all.

What what about the DNC hacking itself. Weren't Russian 'fingerprints' all over those



Oh dear. This bogus story seems to be falling apart quite quickly. I think we can forget about impeachment or 25A.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

You are 100% right, EnglishPete. The whole charade is folding quicker than Badger at a poker game.