Something-gate: Trump claims Obama bugged Trump Tower. (user search)
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  Something-gate: Trump claims Obama bugged Trump Tower. (search mode)
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Author Topic: Something-gate: Trump claims Obama bugged Trump Tower.  (Read 27399 times)
Virginiá
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« on: March 04, 2017, 10:17:14 AM »

"Trump claims [...]," without any evidence is about as credible as The Onion - on a good day.
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Virginiá
Virginia
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Political Matrix
E: -6.97, S: -5.91

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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2017, 06:43:29 PM »

One thing we have to be careful of is automatically assuming that one side is fact and the other is speculation. As far as I'm concerned, both sides are opinions not facts.

Liberals often set up their arguments as facts when, in actuality, they are opinions.

Oh give me a break. If you want to talk about opinions vs facts, how about we talk about how Trump supporters have been taking Donald's words and rambling conspiracies as gospel for over a year now, at almost cult-like levels.
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Virginiá
Virginia
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Posts: 18,884
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Political Matrix
E: -6.97, S: -5.91

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« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2017, 11:42:58 AM »


See, the thing is, one might not be able to come across "powerful evidence" without further investigation. Not every investigation begins with such evidence. If there is a compelling reason to believe that a presidential candidate could be involved with a foreign power in a nefarious way, I think there is an obligation on the part of our intelligence services to find out the truth in a way that doesn't damage the candidate in the event there is nothing there. I'm sorry, but just because he is running for office doesn't mean he is exempt from investigations into wrongdoing. Especially in this case, where if he won, he would have control over these very agencies and the Department of Justice. It is simply too risky to let slide for partisan purposes. And yes, this applies to any party and any candidate.

This article tries to indirectly make the case that so long as you are running for president, you can do anything you want and have investigations into your conduct prohibited unless you are essentially caught red handed. BS. It is not lost on me the risks of this kind of investigatory behavior and that we can't have presidential elections where one party investigates the other, but we also can't have presidents vulnerable to or willing to acquiesce to foreign powers - particularly ones like Russia. Obama saw the risks here, and no doubt he looked at Congress and saw a body of politicians that, if remained intact, would be highly unwilling to investigate Trump for anything. So far, the extreme resistance to investigating Trump's conflicts of interests and other issues proves this, especially when we were able to see just years ago how eager the GOP was to investigate Obama and future presidential candidate Clinton for everything and anything. So I don't want to hear about biased partisan investigations. Give me a break.

The best option would have been for the GOP to not nominate someone like Trump and put us in this situation, but that obviously was not the case.
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Virginiá
Virginia
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Posts: 18,884
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Political Matrix
E: -6.97, S: -5.91

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« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2017, 02:43:38 PM »

Doesn't matter what my standard of evidence is or your standard of evidence is. Various major Republican commentators such as Hugh Hewitt, Mark Levin and Rush Limbaugh all think that the evidence heavily indicates serious wrongdoing on the part of Obama that merits further serious investigation.

Why didn't you say before that many prominent conservative talk radio hosts such as Rush Limbaugh believed this conspiracy was true? This accusation clearly has merit. Congress would be foolish to not act now.
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Virginiá
Virginia
Administratrix
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*****
Posts: 18,884
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.97, S: -5.91

WWW
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2017, 05:15:51 PM »

Trump's history of making stuff up goes way beyond those two stories.   There was a documentary on PBS referencing a story about a horrible rape in New York City in the late 1980s, in which five black men were wrongfully accused by the police of brutally gang-raping, beating, and murdering a white woman doing her evening jog in Central Park -and of course, Trump egged them on in the press, calling them 'animals'.  To this day, even though they were exonerated, he still believes they did it. 

Trump is the personification of confirmation bias. He is not a curious man, at least in the idea that he wants to know how things are. He believes he knows how things are already, and he only is curious about things that confirm what he has deluded himself into believing. It's hard to find a better example that is as comprehensive as The Donald.
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Virginiá
Virginia
Administratrix
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*****
Posts: 18,884
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.97, S: -5.91

WWW
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2017, 11:33:49 PM »
« Edited: March 08, 2017, 11:38:01 PM by Virginia »

Of course he does. Hannity just sticks his finger in the air and sees which way the wind is blowing, and right now it is blowing towards blaming the CIA and this is just the latest in a long line of excuses being peddled on the right.
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Virginiá
Virginia
Administratrix
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*****
Posts: 18,884
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.97, S: -5.91

WWW
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2017, 03:59:51 PM »

He's right. A whole bunch of news outlets have been insinuating that Trump was under surveillance by various three letter agencies. Watching them furiously backpeddle on this when Trump publicly drew the conclusion that they wanted the public to make fully justifies the tweets.

So he's going to call them fake news all day long, then use them as evidence when he comes unhinged and says something he shouldn't have said without actual evidence? Like Rogers quoted, he's the president now - if it happened, he can get the evidence. Instead, he just mindlessly regurgitates chatter from the media / cable news.

He needs to learn how to sit back and be more calculating, instead of indulging these knee-jerk reactions. He ends up looking stupid most of the time, and his supporters / Republican officials have to bend over backwards to find ways to justify whatever crazy stuff he said at any given time. And for what? All of this is just plain stupid, and could have easily been avoided.

If he knew what was good for himself, he'd step away from Twitter for the remainder of his term. Otherwise, this is going to be a long 4 years.
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Virginiá
Virginia
Administratrix
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*****
Posts: 18,884
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.97, S: -5.91

WWW
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2017, 03:35:45 PM »
« Edited: March 22, 2017, 03:37:41 PM by Virginia »

I mean this isnt new, this is what happened to DC Mayor Marion Barry in the 90s. The cops were monitoring and collecting evidence against local drug dealers and incidentally discovered that the Mayor was a customer of one the dealers being surveiled and he was forced out of office and arrested.

This is probably the best way to explain this situation. Trump & allies were not vindicated at all. As usual, they are just desperate for vindication and so they are grasping at anything they can to back up their flimsy side of the story.


Seriously it's horrifying, the amount of "Trump has been vindicated" tweets an comments I've see around social media makes me almost want to give up on this country

People believe what they want to believe. It's not so much an American thing as it is a human thing. Fact is, many of these people already had their minds made up and they were just waiting around for something - anything even, to back up their already preconceived position. Confirmation bias 101.
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