Is suicide wrong in this hypothetical?

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Suppose there is a person who lives a rather healthy, but barren life.  He has no family and no real friends, and no one who'd ever known him would care if he died and they knew about it.  This man, who has spent most of his years isolated from society, is very self-reliant and owes no duties or obligations to anyone.  He has no family to support and makes his own modest living doing freelance work for clients with whom he never associates again.  The man, finding no real purpose in his life and having no desire to go about changing it, commits suicide.

Has a moral wrong been done?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

That he has no desire for change and yet is considering suicide seems contradictory to me. As the old song goes, "suicide ... brings on many changes". Also, while modern society does make it easier to live a less connected life, we all have connections.

So, because I find your hypothetical inconsistent, I refuse to answer it.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

That he has no desire for change and yet is considering suicide seems contradictory to me. As the old song goes, "suicide ... brings on many changes". Also, while modern society does make it easier to live a less connected life, we all have connections.

So, because I find your hypothetical inconsistent, I refuse to answer it.

That was sloppy phrasing on my part.  It's a quarter to 8 and I haven't had any sleep.

By that I mean he has no desire to change his life so that he no longer feels suicidal, whether it's talking to a psychiatrist or reaching out to people he can build personal relationships with (as a psychiatrist likely would advise him to do).

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I have and feeling you're alluding to yourself--to at least some extent--and recommend you cease this line of thought immediately.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

I have and feeling you're alluding to yourself--to at least some extent--and recommend you cease this line of thought immediately.

I did not intend and I do not want to make this thread about me in any way.

[RI]

Suicide is always wrong.

[Mopsus]

I have and feeling you're alluding to yourself--to at least some extent--and recommend you cease this line of thought immediately.

I did not intend and I do not want to make this thread about me in any way.

Every post we make is about us, in one way or another.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

No, it isn't wrong

[Beet]

Uh Scott, your questions are making me start to worry about you

I have always enjoyed your contributions to this board. I am rooting for you man.

[CatoMinor]

G.K. Chesterton had this gem of wisdom to say on the matter.

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[Antonio the Sixth]

G.K. Chesterton had this gem of wisdom to say on the matter.

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To put it politely, what a load of despicable, self-righteous bullsh*t.

Here's a revolutionary idea: what if, instead of guilting and shaming people who feel so desperate from their existence as to take the ultimate leap into the dark, we tried to build a society that doesn't push people into such desperation?

[The_Doctor]

Suicide is bad. But on the other hand ...

Let me ask a question. Shouldn't suicide be acceptable if say, you developed Alzheimer's and knew that this disease, with no cure, would rob you of your autonomy and independence, isn't death a better option?

the point is suicide is not always irrational and we shouldn't treat it as such. Fwiw, I don't know enough information about the hypothetical presented so I can't comment in detail.

Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread, I can make my own if needed.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Uh Scott, your questions are making me start to worry about you

I have always enjoyed your contributions to this board. I am rooting for you man.

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to worry anyone.  As I told Tony in a PM, I've just been contemplating life a lot lately.  I don't like talking about my own problems with this stuff on a public forum.  But I will be okay.


And yes, that Chesterton quote has to be the most asinine thing I've ever read anyone say about this subject, ever.  Just what kind of pompous, uncompassionate scumbag would tell someone who genuinely wishes to end their life, someone who is at a point of such grave desperation that they see no other escape from the pain they experience every waking moment of their life, that acting on their desire makes them morally inferior to a rapist or a thief or a murderer?  What a bunch of pretentious, unadulterated nonsense.

[Mopsus]

And yes, that Chesterton quote has to be the most asinine thing I've ever read anyone say about this subject, ever.  Just what kind of pompous, uncompassionate scumbag would tell someone who genuinely wishes to end their life, someone who is at a point of such grave desperation that they see no other escape from the pain they experience every waking moment of their life, that acting on their desire makes them morally inferior to a rapist or a thief or a murderer?  What a bunch of pretentious, unadulterated nonsense.

Why does it even matter what he tells them? The only reason you'd want to avoid being compared to a rapist or a thief or a murderer, is if you still cared for the things of this world.

[CatoMinor]

I don't think Chesterton was trying to degrade the person in any way, but highlight how serious and awful the act is. It was also written in the era of the overly-manly-man meme and his language probably reflects that a bit, but I really don't think it should be read as just trying to belittle the people going through those issues.

[Torie]

No, it's tragic, but it is not a sin.

[Frodo]

People who commit suicide find no peace in death either.  And even if you don't believe in God, would you really want to find out if that is true or not? 

[Santander]

Suicide is always wrong, unnatural, and cowardly. (other than perhaps for a greater purpose such as to protect state secrets after being captured by an enemy)

[dead0man]

No

(though how you do it might be)

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

The right to life can only be ended by one's own self, yes, but while it may be moral (or at least, in this extreme hypothetical) that still does not make it a rational action if other means to improve one's life are still availiable.

Suicide is justified when the dust keeps falling into your hair because the bunker took it's fourth direct hit from a Soviet tank and the Reichstag is burning above you. I don't see anything in this scenario given that seems to indicate a need to end one's life, and the only problem (loneliness) can be overcome with greater socialization. Easier said than done, I know. I tire of hearing that too. But even then, medication is still an option. Therapy is still an option. Talking to the mail man is an option.

I shared Cathcon's concerns though I accept your explanation, Scott. Are there rational reasons to commit suicide? Yes. But they are exceedingly rare. You'd have to be in the same sort of situation as those trapped in the upper floors of the World Trade Center, or if the demon that was inside of little Reagan MacNeil has been transferred to you like in The Exorcist.

Suicide is always wrong, unnatural, and cowardly. (other than perhaps for a greater purpose such as to protect state secrets after being captured by an enemy)

It can be a revolutionary act. Case in point, the monks who immolated themselves. You can call it wrong, unnatural, immoral, etc, but I've always thought that it takes a lot of balls to do it. I don't know what comes next for sure and I know that I'll never know that. Why would anyone want to take the chance?

Plus, it generally speaking isn't a very pleasant thing to do. Hanging oneself sounds horrible, especially if they get cold feet after kicking the chair out from under them. Shooting oneself can end with the victim surviving but crippled physically. Imagine trying to kill yourself and ending up as a quadriplegic for God's sake!

Frankly, though I've grappled with depression my entire life, and while I've certainly wanted to die in a few particularly bad (but also brief and few and far between) phases, I've never once actually seriously considered suicide. I couldn't then, can't now, and won't ever be able to do it. I just can't. I can't put my family through it, even if I were blaming them for the hypothetical. I can't leave the guys who work at the liquor store across the street from me who I barely know, so just imagine how I think about this subject having a disabled brother who will need me to be his guardian after my parents go. Just not an option. 

I wish we would be able to have a serious discussion on the ethics of suicide, but I'm extremely paranoid of being misinterpreted. It's happened before on this subject and it almost got me sent to a hospital in the third grade, so I can't highlight that enough.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Now a days since the shooting of Gabby Giffords the mortality rate has gone up for attempted shootings.

The threat of paralysis just like what happened to Giffords outweighs the risk of death.  And to even attempt a suicide is taking that risk of paralysis. So, yes it is wrong.