Puerto Rico status referendum - June 11

[Shadows]

Independence! Statehood is a trash right-wing idea.

Considering they cannot make payments on their debt, don't know how independence would work for them

Which is not their own fault when they are in the middle on nowhere, not a country, not a state, disproportionately paying taxes & receiving little in return from the government. There is no metric to judge unless they are an independent state or a country, there are too many institutional voids in this arrangement to succeed !

[Rjjr77]

Independence! Statehood is a trash right-wing idea.

Considering they cannot make payments on their debt, don't know how independence would work for them

Which is not their own fault when they are in the middle on nowhere, not a country, not a state, disproportionately paying taxes & receiving little in return from the government. There is no metric to judge unless they are an independent state or a country, there are too many institutional voids in this arrangement to succeed !

I mean there's a LOT more to it than that (other territories do just fine) they've had terrible fiscal mismanagement and corruption there, regardless if they were to go independent they'd have to solidify their financial situation, at this stage they can't.

Tax income made on the island is not federally taxable, they pay about 5 billion in taxes to the US and receive about 20 billion in federal funding. They are actually receiving way more than they pay.

[KingSweden]

I support unconditional statehood for PR, and I do not support statehood for D.C.

Puerto Rico has 3 and a half million people and a terrible financial crisis. If they want to be a state, they should be one. The "but Dems!" argument holds zero water. For all we know PR could be a GOP stronghold in 30 years.

[Dr. Arch]

Puerto Rico isn't becoming a state until they fix their financial mess.

And on an interesting note Puerto Rico has had as many republican governors over the past twenty years as WV

No, most of the members from both of the mainstream parties are Democrats. The most right wing of the two is more religiously conservative, but both of them are essentially different wings of the D party, with few exceptions.

Gov. Alejandro Javier García Padilla    Puerto Rico    (2013 - 2017 )
   PDP of Puerto Rico
Gov. Luis G. Fortuño    Puerto Rico    (2009 - 2013 )
   Republican
Gov. Anibal Acevedo Vilá    Puerto Rico    (2005 - 2009 )
   Democrat
Gov. Sila M. Calderon    Puerto Rico    (2001 - 2005 )
   Popular Democrat
Gov. Pedro Rossello    Puerto Rico    (1993 - 2001 )
   New Progressive Party
Gov. Carlos Romero-Barcelo    Puerto Rico    (1977 - 1985 )
   New Progressive Party
Gov. Rafael Hernandez-Colon    Puerto Rico    (1973 - 1977 )
(1985 - 1993 )
   Popular Democrat
Gov. Luis A. Ferre    Puerto Rico    (1969 - 1973 )
   New Progressive Party
Gov. Roberto Sanchez-Vilella    Puerto Rico    (1965 - 1969 )
   Popular Democrat

[Tintrlvr]

Puerto Rico isn't becoming a state until they fix their financial mess.

And on an interesting note Puerto Rico has had as many republican governors over the past twenty years as WV

No, most of the members from both of the mainstream parties are Democrats. The most right wing of the two is more religiously conservative, but both of them are essentially different wings of the D party, with few exceptions.

Gov. Alejandro Javier García Padilla    Puerto Rico    (2013 - 2017 )
   PDP of Puerto Rico
Gov. Luis G. Fortuño    Puerto Rico    (2009 - 2013 )
   Republican
Gov. Anibal Acevedo Vilá    Puerto Rico    (2005 - 2009 )
   Democrat
Gov. Sila M. Calderon    Puerto Rico    (2001 - 2005 )
   Popular Democrat
Gov. Pedro Rossello    Puerto Rico    (1993 - 2001 )
   New Progressive Party
Gov. Carlos Romero-Barcelo    Puerto Rico    (1977 - 1985 )
   New Progressive Party
Gov. Rafael Hernandez-Colon    Puerto Rico    (1973 - 1977 )
(1985 - 1993 )
   Popular Democrat
Gov. Luis A. Ferre    Puerto Rico    (1969 - 1973 )
   New Progressive Party
Gov. Roberto Sanchez-Vilella    Puerto Rico    (1965 - 1969 )
   Popular Democrat

You're saying the same thing. West Virginia has only had one Republican governor in the last twenty years.

[Rjjr77]

Puerto Rico isn't becoming a state until they fix their financial mess.

And on an interesting note Puerto Rico has had as many republican governors over the past twenty years as WV

No, most of the members from both of the mainstream parties are Democrats. The most right wing of the two is more religiously conservative, but both of them are essentially different wings of the D party, with few exceptions.

Gov. Alejandro Javier García Padilla    Puerto Rico    (2013 - 2017 )
   PDP of Puerto Rico
Gov. Luis G. Fortuño    Puerto Rico    (2009 - 2013 )
   Republican
Gov. Anibal Acevedo Vilá    Puerto Rico    (2005 - 2009 )
   Democrat
Gov. Sila M. Calderon    Puerto Rico    (2001 - 2005 )
   Popular Democrat
Gov. Pedro Rossello    Puerto Rico    (1993 - 2001 )
   New Progressive Party
Gov. Carlos Romero-Barcelo    Puerto Rico    (1977 - 1985 )
   New Progressive Party
Gov. Rafael Hernandez-Colon    Puerto Rico    (1973 - 1977 )
(1985 - 1993 )
   Popular Democrat
Gov. Luis A. Ferre    Puerto Rico    (1969 - 1973 )
   New Progressive Party
Gov. Roberto Sanchez-Vilella    Puerto Rico    (1965 - 1969 )
   Popular Democrat

You're saying the same thing. West Virginia has only had one Republican governor in the last twenty years.

^yup.

Also Luis Ferre was a republican.

[Dr. Arch]

Puerto Rico isn't becoming a state until they fix their financial mess.

And on an interesting note Puerto Rico has had as many republican governors over the past twenty years as WV

No, most of the members from both of the mainstream parties are Democrats. The most right wing of the two is more religiously conservative, but both of them are essentially different wings of the D party, with few exceptions.

Gov. Alejandro Javier García Padilla    Puerto Rico    (2013 - 2017 )
   PDP of Puerto Rico
Gov. Luis G. Fortuño    Puerto Rico    (2009 - 2013 )
   Republican
Gov. Anibal Acevedo Vilá    Puerto Rico    (2005 - 2009 )
   Democrat
Gov. Sila M. Calderon    Puerto Rico    (2001 - 2005 )
   Popular Democrat
Gov. Pedro Rossello    Puerto Rico    (1993 - 2001 )
   New Progressive Party
Gov. Carlos Romero-Barcelo    Puerto Rico    (1977 - 1985 )
   New Progressive Party
Gov. Rafael Hernandez-Colon    Puerto Rico    (1973 - 1977 )
(1985 - 1993 )
   Popular Democrat
Gov. Luis A. Ferre    Puerto Rico    (1969 - 1973 )
   New Progressive Party
Gov. Roberto Sanchez-Vilella    Puerto Rico    (1965 - 1969 )
   Popular Democrat

You're saying the same thing. West Virginia has only had one Republican governor in the last twenty years.

^yup.

Also Luis Ferre was a republican.

Oh, just re-read it. Yeah, you're saying what I said earlier. Sorry about that. Posting while on a bus can be distracting.

[DrScholl]

Independence! Statehood is a trash right-wing idea.

You really ought to be more informed. Puerto Rico doesn't want independence and it's always has low support in referendums. Not everything is about left and right.

[Dr. Arch]

Someone everyone here should watch on Puerto Rico and its current fiscal issues:

https://www.facebook.com/perolike/videos/1171383482949041/

Note: I don't condone the idea that PR's status should be decided on the fiscally detrimental effects of its rigged market relations with the mainland. Puerto Rico should be given statehood because it is big enough, population-wise, and because its citizens are natural-born Americans who, overall, want statehood. There should not be a lesser class of American citizens depending on what U.S. soil they're standing on. It's as simple as that.

[Rjjr77]

Someone everyone here should watch on Puerto Rico and its current fiscal issues:

https://www.facebook.com/perolike/videos/1171383482949041/

Note: I don't condone the idea that PR's status should be decided on the fiscally detrimental effects of its rigged market relations with the mainland. Puerto Rico should be given statehood because it is big enough, population-wise, and because its citizens are natural-born Americans who, overall, want statehood. There should not be a lesser class of American citizens depending on what U.S. soil they're standing on. It's as simple as that.

The jones act is a real issue for inflated prices, but it's a drop in the bucket for their problems. This is a beautiful place with no federal income tax, it should do far better. Their problems are not the jones act, their problems are horrific mismanagement and rampant corruption.

We need to talk about the fact that even with billions in aid and a decent GDP, they can't stop spending. They were continuing to issue bonds after practically defaulting on their payments, they have about 100 billion in debt (including unfunded pensions) their treasury is unable to collect 44% of their sales taxes. They need to just admit the debt is bad, and restructure with negotiated payouts to bond holders, cut salaries of government employees, refinance their pension debt, and fix their Medicare/Medicaid issues

[Dr. Arch]

Someone everyone here should watch on Puerto Rico and its current fiscal issues:

https://www.facebook.com/perolike/videos/1171383482949041/

Note: I don't condone the idea that PR's status should be decided on the fiscally detrimental effects of its rigged market relations with the mainland. Puerto Rico should be given statehood because it is big enough, population-wise, and because its citizens are natural-born Americans who, overall, want statehood. There should not be a lesser class of American citizens depending on what U.S. soil they're standing on. It's as simple as that.

The jones act is a real issue for inflated prices, but it's a drop in the bucket for their problems. This is a beautiful place with no federal income tax, it should do far better. Their problems are not the jones act, their problems are horrific mismanagement and rampant corruption.

The Jones act is a horrifically large part of the problem. Yes, there is administrative mismanagement and corruption, but that is all over many states as well.

Imagine having to pay $7 for a gallon of milk (not kidding here) or much more for gas, etc. because of it. It just dampers the entire flow of the economy from the bottom up.

Not paying Federal taxes is actually hindering the island's economy because Puerto Rico is not considered a part of the general budget, as the states are, which means it can't fully benefit from federal funds. (Think of states that receive more than they pay, e.g. Alabama).

There is also the fact that a great number of mega chains, like Walmart and Walgreen's, have put all the local small businesses out of business, which leaves few other options from where residents can get their products. What does this mean? It means that almost all of the profit made by these companies does not circulate in the local economy, but is rather exported as if it were foreign capital back to the mainland. This also slows down the economy because it's like poking a hole in a bag of sand that's almost out of sand to begin with.

[Rjjr77]

Someone everyone here should watch on Puerto Rico and its current fiscal issues:

https://www.facebook.com/perolike/videos/1171383482949041/

Note: I don't condone the idea that PR's status should be decided on the fiscally detrimental effects of its rigged market relations with the mainland. Puerto Rico should be given statehood because it is big enough, population-wise, and because its citizens are natural-born Americans who, overall, want statehood. There should not be a lesser class of American citizens depending on what U.S. soil they're standing on. It's as simple as that.

The jones act is a real issue for inflated prices, but it's a drop in the bucket for their problems. This is a beautiful place with no federal income tax, it should do far better. Their problems are not the jones act, their problems are horrific mismanagement and rampant corruption.

The Jones act is a horrifically large part of the problem. Yes, there is administrative mismanagement and corruption, but that is all over many states as well.

Not paying Federal taxes is actually hindering the island's economy because Puerto Rico is not considered a part of the general budget, as the states are, which means it can't fully benefit from federal funds. (Think of states that receive more than they pay, e.g. Alabama).

Imagine having to pay $7 for a gallon of milk (not kidding here) or much more for gas, etc. because of it. It just dampers the entire flow of the economy from the bottom up.

There is also the fact that a great number of mega chains, like Walmart and Walgreen's, have put all the local small businesses out of business, which leaves few other options from where residents can get their products. What does this mean? It means that almost all of the profit made by these companies does not circulate in the local economy, but is rather exported as if it were foreign capital back to the mainland. This also slows down the economy because it's like poking a hole in a bag of sand that's almost out of sand to begin with.

Part of the 7$ for milk isn't the jones act, it's the 11% sales tax.

Islands are more expensive, hawaii deals with the jones act and isn't Defaulting on its debt

They are so inept they can't collect almost half of their taxes, while overpaying public employees and continuing to issue bonds

Puerto CANT COLLECT OVER 40% OF ITS TAXES. It's an ineptly run mess, it's easy to blame the US but it isn't the US that has done this, it's horrific money management.

[Dr. Arch]

Someone everyone here should watch on Puerto Rico and its current fiscal issues:

https://www.facebook.com/perolike/videos/1171383482949041/

Note: I don't condone the idea that PR's status should be decided on the fiscally detrimental effects of its rigged market relations with the mainland. Puerto Rico should be given statehood because it is big enough, population-wise, and because its citizens are natural-born Americans who, overall, want statehood. There should not be a lesser class of American citizens depending on what U.S. soil they're standing on. It's as simple as that.

The jones act is a real issue for inflated prices, but it's a drop in the bucket for their problems. This is a beautiful place with no federal income tax, it should do far better. Their problems are not the jones act, their problems are horrific mismanagement and rampant corruption.

The Jones act is a horrifically large part of the problem. Yes, there is administrative mismanagement and corruption, but that is all over many states as well.

Not paying Federal taxes is actually hindering the island's economy because Puerto Rico is not considered a part of the general budget, as the states are, which means it can't fully benefit from federal funds. (Think of states that receive more than they pay, e.g. Alabama).

Imagine having to pay $7 for a gallon of milk (not kidding here) or much more for gas, etc. because of it. It just dampers the entire flow of the economy from the bottom up.

There is also the fact that a great number of mega chains, like Walmart and Walgreen's, have put all the local small businesses out of business, which leaves few other options from where residents can get their products. What does this mean? It means that almost all of the profit made by these companies does not circulate in the local economy, but is rather exported as if it were foreign capital back to the mainland. This also slows down the economy because it's like poking a hole in a bag of sand that's almost out of sand to begin with.

Part of the 7$ for milk isn't the jones act, it's the 11% sales tax.

Islands are more expensive, hawaii deals with the jones act and isn't Defaulting on its debt

They are so inept they can't collect almost half of their taxes, while overpaying public employees and continuing to issue bonds

11% sales tax for $7 is just 77 cents; come on now.

Yes, islands are more expensive, but Hawai'i is a state so you can't possibly make a fair comparison.

They have no other option but to issue bonds since they can't do anything to restructure or renegotiate the debt. They can't even default. They could fire every single employee, and it wouldn't change a thing other than destroying whatever is left of the economy.

[NOVA Green]

I'm surprised that nobody on the thread has mentioned the giant tax loophole whereby US MNCs have set up shop in Puerto Rico to evade corporate income taxes....

Essentially in the '70s/'80s/'90s there were a ton of MNCs including household names in the Technology Sector, pharmaceutical sector, and many others that fled to a low wage (US minimum wage does not apply in Puerto Rico), looser regulations when it comes to environmental regulations, as well as a means of taxing advantage of tax loopholes to essentially avoid paying *any Federal taxes* for assets located in Puerto Rico.

Lest anyone jumps to conclusions about where I am coming from on my post, in no way shape or form is it saying that US companies should not invest in manufacturing operations and jobs in Puerto Rico.

What I do have an issue with, is US based companies gaming the system in order to avoid paying prevailing Federal Minimum Wage, avoid paying any taxes for their operations in Puerto Rico to either the Federal Government, nor to the Great Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.

Anyone who wants to whine and complain about how Puerto Rico doesn't deserve their own choice and right to be the 51st State of the Union, because of "Fiscal mismanagement" appears to neglect the "offshore" revenue slipping out of the Island to benefit Fortune 100 Companies that would otherwise go into supporting the local economy and social services.

Personally, I believe that Puerto Ricans have a choice, and I will support both the votes for Independence and the votes for Statehood. This is not my choice to make.

What is clear, is that the status quo has failed our fellow citizens in Puerto Rico, and the policies of various Administrations over the decades, regardless of a (D) or (R) behind their names have essentially been shills that kept teasing Puerto Rico, in order to enable their corporate and manufacturing paymasters, while jobs were being shifted from Union cities and States, to line to greedy pockets of US Corporations, Wall Street, and International investors....

Bottom Line: If Puerto Rico decides to become the 51st State of Union, the fiscal situation will improve dramatically..... MNCs like Hewlett-Packard and Big Pharma will have to pay their fair share.

Sure.... was their local economic mismanagement that happened in Puerto Rico a partial contributor---- Yes.   Were the citizens of Puerto Rico basically screwed over as a result of greedy MNCs playing the same games of "divide and conquer" as always---- absolutely 100% . Puerto Rico has been literally deprived of Billions of dollars in Revenue over the past 5 decades, that has gone to line to pockets of the "Fat Cats", and done very little to help our Island friend to the South

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_industry_in_Puerto_Rico

https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/15/puerto-rico-turns-to-tech-and-entrepreneurialism-to-revitalize-the-economy/

[adrac]

Just to be clear: why did they remove the status quo option from the ballot?

I believe it's because the 2012 referendum voted against the status quo already.

[Rjjr77]

Someone everyone here should watch on Puerto Rico and its current fiscal issues:

https://www.facebook.com/perolike/videos/1171383482949041/

Note: I don't condone the idea that PR's status should be decided on the fiscally detrimental effects of its rigged market relations with the mainland. Puerto Rico should be given statehood because it is big enough, population-wise, and because its citizens are natural-born Americans who, overall, want statehood. There should not be a lesser class of American citizens depending on what U.S. soil they're standing on. It's as simple as that.

The jones act is a real issue for inflated prices, but it's a drop in the bucket for their problems. This is a beautiful place with no federal income tax, it should do far better. Their problems are not the jones act, their problems are horrific mismanagement and rampant corruption.

The Jones act is a horrifically large part of the problem. Yes, there is administrative mismanagement and corruption, but that is all over many states as well.

Not paying Federal taxes is actually hindering the island's economy because Puerto Rico is not considered a part of the general budget, as the states are, which means it can't fully benefit from federal funds. (Think of states that receive more than they pay, e.g. Alabama).

Imagine having to pay $7 for a gallon of milk (not kidding here) or much more for gas, etc. because of it. It just dampers the entire flow of the economy from the bottom up.

There is also the fact that a great number of mega chains, like Walmart and Walgreen's, have put all the local small businesses out of business, which leaves few other options from where residents can get their products. What does this mean? It means that almost all of the profit made by these companies does not circulate in the local economy, but is rather exported as if it were foreign capital back to the mainland. This also slows down the economy because it's like poking a hole in a bag of sand that's almost out of sand to begin with.

Part of the 7$ for milk isn't the jones act, it's the 11% sales tax.

Islands are more expensive, hawaii deals with the jones act and isn't Defaulting on its debt

They are so inept they can't collect almost half of their taxes, while overpaying public employees and continuing to issue bonds

11% sales tax for $7 is just a little over 7 cents; come on now.

Yes, islands are more expensive, but Hawai'i is a state so you can't possibly make a fair comparison.

They have no other option but to issue bonds since they can't do anything to restructure or renegotiate the debt. They can't even default. They could fire every single employee, and it wouldn't change a thing other than destroying whatever is left of the economy.

11% sales tax on 7 dollars is 77 cents.
Yes milk is expensive, it's only 60 cents cheaper in the Virgin Islands, who doesn't have a jones act requirement...

And they have tons of options on their debt... Nothing is stopping Puerto Rico from restructuring their debt. Nothing. In fact the federal government had to force a committee to do it for them (they did not need federal permission to restructure their debt)
Nothing is stopping Puerto Rico from renegotiating their debt (they did it with most loans in 2014, but of course they did it by issuing more bonds)

You also say they cannot default, Odd they've defaulted twice on debt (2014, 2016).

The problem is Puerto Rico's solution to their fiscal woes has been to borrow more money and now they have no cash to pay the bills.

[Rjjr77]

I'm surprised that nobody on the thread has mentioned the giant tax loophole whereby US MNCs have set up shop in Puerto Rico to evade corporate income taxes....

Essentially in the '70s/'80s/'90s there were a ton of MNCs including household names in the Technology Sector, pharmaceutical sector, and many others that fled to a low wage (US minimum wage does not apply in Puerto Rico), looser regulations when it comes to environmental regulations, as well as a means of taxing advantage of tax loopholes to essentially avoid paying *any Federal taxes* for assets located in Puerto Rico.

Lest anyone jumps to conclusions about where I am coming from on my post, in no way shape or form is it saying that US companies should not invest in manufacturing operations and jobs in Puerto Rico.

What I do have an issue with, is US based companies gaming the system in order to avoid paying prevailing Federal Minimum Wage, avoid paying any taxes for their operations in Puerto Rico to either the Federal Government, nor to the Great Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.

Anyone who wants to whine and complain about how Puerto Rico doesn't deserve their own choice and right to be the 51st State of the Union, because of "Fiscal mismanagement" appears to neglect the "offshore" revenue slipping out of the Island to benefit Fortune 100 Companies that would otherwise go into supporting the local economy and social services.

Personally, I believe that Puerto Ricans have a choice, and I will support both the votes for Independence and the votes for Statehood. This is not my choice to make.

What is clear, is that the status quo has failed our fellow citizens in Puerto Rico, and the policies of various Administrations over the decades, regardless of a (D) or (R) behind their names have essentially been shills that kept teasing Puerto Rico, in order to enable their corporate and manufacturing paymasters, while jobs were being shifted from Union cities and States, to line to greedy pockets of US Corporations, Wall Street, and International investors....

Bottom Line: If Puerto Rico decides to become the 51st State of Union, the fiscal situation will improve dramatically..... MNCs like Hewlett-Packard and Big Pharma will have to pay their fair share.

Sure.... was their local economic mismanagement that happened in Puerto Rico a partial contributor---- Yes.   Were the citizens of Puerto Rico basically screwed over as a result of greedy MNCs playing the same games of "divide and conquer" as always---- absolutely 100% . Puerto Rico has been literally deprived of Billions of dollars in Revenue over the past 5 decades, that has gone to line to pockets of the "Fat Cats", and done very little to help our Island friend to the South

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_industry_in_Puerto_Rico

https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/15/puerto-rico-turns-to-tech-and-entrepreneurialism-to-revitalize-the-economy/

So much in this post is wrong.
1. Companies USED to receive tax breaks for being in Puerto Rico, those tax breaks have been slowly wound down since the mid 1990s and ended in 2006.
2. Puerto Rico is subject to a minimum wage. Any company that is FLSA eligible pays federal rate, any that isn't may not pay less tha 70% of the fed min.
3. These corporations still had to pay Puerto Rico taxes.

In your rush to blame large evil corporations, you missed too many facts.

Again the reason is fiscal mismanagement. The worst thing the US government did was in 1914 they made all bonds issued by Puerto Rico 100% tax free (fed, state, municipal) which is not uncommon for municipal bonds, but they made them tax free regardless of if you lived on US soil. This has made Puerto Rican bonds incredibly prized on the bond market. The PR government saw some economic downturn and rather than work on problems (Crime, Corruption, inability to collect taxes, bloated government salaries) they borrowed, then they borrowed more to pay off that debt, and the market for PR bonds, because of the tax breaks, made them desirable despite the cash flow issues PR has.

[NOVA Green]

I'm surprised that nobody on the thread has mentioned the giant tax loophole whereby US MNCs have set up shop in Puerto Rico to evade corporate income taxes....

Essentially in the '70s/'80s/'90s there were a ton of MNCs including household names in the Technology Sector, pharmaceutical sector, and many others that fled to a low wage (US minimum wage does not apply in Puerto Rico), looser regulations when it comes to environmental regulations, as well as a means of taxing advantage of tax loopholes to essentially avoid paying *any Federal taxes* for assets located in Puerto Rico.

Lest anyone jumps to conclusions about where I am coming from on my post, in no way shape or form is it saying that US companies should not invest in manufacturing operations and jobs in Puerto Rico.

What I do have an issue with, is US based companies gaming the system in order to avoid paying prevailing Federal Minimum Wage, avoid paying any taxes for their operations in Puerto Rico to either the Federal Government, nor to the Great Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.

Anyone who wants to whine and complain about how Puerto Rico doesn't deserve their own choice and right to be the 51st State of the Union, because of "Fiscal mismanagement" appears to neglect the "offshore" revenue slipping out of the Island to benefit Fortune 100 Companies that would otherwise go into supporting the local economy and social services.

Personally, I believe that Puerto Ricans have a choice, and I will support both the votes for Independence and the votes for Statehood. This is not my choice to make.

What is clear, is that the status quo has failed our fellow citizens in Puerto Rico, and the policies of various Administrations over the decades, regardless of a (D) or (R) behind their names have essentially been shills that kept teasing Puerto Rico, in order to enable their corporate and manufacturing paymasters, while jobs were being shifted from Union cities and States, to line to greedy pockets of US Corporations, Wall Street, and International investors....

Bottom Line: If Puerto Rico decides to become the 51st State of Union, the fiscal situation will improve dramatically..... MNCs like Hewlett-Packard and Big Pharma will have to pay their fair share.

Sure.... was their local economic mismanagement that happened in Puerto Rico a partial contributor---- Yes.   Were the citizens of Puerto Rico basically screwed over as a result of greedy MNCs playing the same games of "divide and conquer" as always---- absolutely 100% . Puerto Rico has been literally deprived of Billions of dollars in Revenue over the past 5 decades, that has gone to line to pockets of the "Fat Cats", and done very little to help our Island friend to the South

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_industry_in_Puerto_Rico

https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/15/puerto-rico-turns-to-tech-and-entrepreneurialism-to-revitalize-the-economy/

So much in this post is wrong.
1. Companies USED to receive tax breaks for being in Puerto Rico, those tax breaks have been slowly wound down since the mid 1990s and ended in 2006.
2. Puerto Rico is subject to a minimum wage. Any company that is FLSA eligible pays federal rate, any that isn't may not pay less tha 70% of the fed min.
3. These corporations still had to pay Puerto Rico taxes.

In your rush to blame large evil corporations, you missed too many facts.

Again the reason is fiscal mismanagement. The worst thing the US government did was in 1914 they made all bonds issued by Puerto Rico 100% tax free (fed, state, municipal) which is not uncommon for municipal bonds, but they made them tax free regardless of if you lived on US soil. This has made Puerto Rican bonds incredibly prized on the bond market. The PR government saw some economic downturn and rather than work on problems (Crime, Corruption, inability to collect taxes, bloated government salaries) they borrowed, then they borrowed more to pay off that debt, and the market for PR bonds, because of the tax breaks, made them desirable despite the cash flow issues PR has.

Thanks for the correction Rjjr77...

I stand humbly corrected, and am apparently still stuck back in a timewarp from several decades ago.

That being said--- it still appears that Puerto Rico has been robbed of a significant amount of revenue from preceding decades, regardless of economic mismanagement from various political parties/leaders on the Island.

[MeanBeanMachine]

In a way I'd like to see Puerto Rico become a state because I think it would be interesting, but statistically they'd contribute nothing but debt and unemployment.  For those of you unfamiliar with the numbers and only interested in demographics at the ballot box, Puerto Rico has a 12.4% unemployment rate and is $70,000,000,000 in debt.  Their island is also over a thousand miles from Miami let alone the rest of the country.  Facts can be stubborn things, but when you get your head out of the sand from obsessing over ballot box demographics you get to see the whole picture.  Still I'd like to see them get a chance at statehood if they want.

[Rjjr77]

In a way I'd like to see Puerto Rico become a state because I think it would be interesting, but statistically they'd contribute nothing but debt and unemployment.  For those of you unfamiliar with the numbers and only interested in demographics at the ballot box, Puerto Rico has a 12.4% unemployment rate and is $70,000,000,000 in debt.  Their island is also over a thousand miles from Miami let alone the rest of the country.  Facts can be stubborn things, but when you get your head out of the sand from obsessing over ballot box demographics you get to see the whole picture.  Still I'd like to see them get a chance at statehood if they want.

70 billion plus 24 billion in unfunded pension liability, so 94 billion.

[Dr. Arch]

Someone everyone here should watch on Puerto Rico and its current fiscal issues:

https://www.facebook.com/perolike/videos/1171383482949041/

Note: I don't condone the idea that PR's status should be decided on the fiscally detrimental effects of its rigged market relations with the mainland. Puerto Rico should be given statehood because it is big enough, population-wise, and because its citizens are natural-born Americans who, overall, want statehood. There should not be a lesser class of American citizens depending on what U.S. soil they're standing on. It's as simple as that.

The jones act is a real issue for inflated prices, but it's a drop in the bucket for their problems. This is a beautiful place with no federal income tax, it should do far better. Their problems are not the jones act, their problems are horrific mismanagement and rampant corruption.

The Jones act is a horrifically large part of the problem. Yes, there is administrative mismanagement and corruption, but that is all over many states as well.

Not paying Federal taxes is actually hindering the island's economy because Puerto Rico is not considered a part of the general budget, as the states are, which means it can't fully benefit from federal funds. (Think of states that receive more than they pay, e.g. Alabama).

Imagine having to pay $7 for a gallon of milk (not kidding here) or much more for gas, etc. because of it. It just dampers the entire flow of the economy from the bottom up.

There is also the fact that a great number of mega chains, like Walmart and Walgreen's, have put all the local small businesses out of business, which leaves few other options from where residents can get their products. What does this mean? It means that almost all of the profit made by these companies does not circulate in the local economy, but is rather exported as if it were foreign capital back to the mainland. This also slows down the economy because it's like poking a hole in a bag of sand that's almost out of sand to begin with.

Part of the 7$ for milk isn't the jones act, it's the 11% sales tax.

Islands are more expensive, hawaii deals with the jones act and isn't Defaulting on its debt

They are so inept they can't collect almost half of their taxes, while overpaying public employees and continuing to issue bonds

11% sales tax for $7 is just a little over 7 cents; come on now.

Yes, islands are more expensive, but Hawai'i is a state so you can't possibly make a fair comparison.

They have no other option but to issue bonds since they can't do anything to restructure or renegotiate the debt. They can't even default. They could fire every single employee, and it wouldn't change a thing other than destroying whatever is left of the economy.

11% sales tax on 7 dollars is 77 cents.
Yes milk is expensive, it's only 60 cents cheaper in the Virgin Islands, who doesn't have a jones act requirement...

And they have tons of options on their debt... Nothing is stopping Puerto Rico from restructuring their debt. Nothing. In fact the federal government had to force a committee to do it for them (they did not need federal permission to restructure their debt)
Nothing is stopping Puerto Rico from renegotiating their debt (they did it with most loans in 2014, but of course they did it by issuing more bonds)

You also say they cannot default, Odd they've defaulted twice on debt (2014, 2016).

The problem is Puerto Rico's solution to their fiscal woes has been to borrow more money and now they have no cash to pay the bills.

Yes on the taxes, fixed the number above.

Your argument for denying statehood to PR is nil to begin with anyways. American citizens on American soil that is not D.C. want statehood. They should get it. If we're going to start precluding statehood to fiscal prosperity, then we should start jettisoning fiscally-challenged states from the union. Do we start with Kansas?

[Virginiá]

Yes on the taxes, fixed the number above.

Your argument for denying statehood to PR is nil to begin with anyways. American citizens on American soil that is not D.C. want statehood. They should get it. If we're going to start precluding statehood to fiscal prosperity, then we should start jettisoning fiscally-challenged states from the union. Do we start with Kansas?

It baffles me how many people are so willing to disenfranchise fellow American citizens for any number of perceived shortcomings. Debt. Location. You name it. DC "shouldn't" get it because some time ago people decided it be a federal district and that means some guy's decision hundreds of years ago means it should never be changed and hundreds of thousands of citizens should never get representation. Never mind the fact that at least 2 states with less people than DC get full representation.

Or how Puerto Rico shouldn't get statehood because they have economic problems, despite the island being full of American citizens. Really? Any other excuses to throw out there? They are Americans and they deserve the right to give input into our federal government. It doesn't matter how bad the economic situation is. This should be a fundamental right that transcends all of that.

And no doubt most of the time these excuses come from people who already enjoy full voting rights and representation. Just the usual "i got mine, so screw you" attitude.

[KingSweden]

Yes on the taxes, fixed the number above.

Your argument for denying statehood to PR is nil to begin with anyways. American citizens on American soil that is not D.C. want statehood. They should get it. If we're going to start precluding statehood to fiscal prosperity, then we should start jettisoning fiscally-challenged states from the union. Do we start with Kansas?

It baffles me how many people are so willing to disenfranchise fellow American citizens for any number of perceived shortcomings. Debt. Location. You name it. DC "shouldn't" get it because some time ago people decided it be a federal district and that means some guy's decision hundreds of years ago means it should never be changed and hundreds of thousands of citizens should never get representation. Never mind the fact that at least 2 states with less people than DC get full representation.

Or how Puerto Rico shouldn't get statehood because they have economic problems, despite the island being full of American citizens. Really? Any other excuses to throw out there? They are Americans and they deserve the right to give input into our federal government. It doesn't matter how bad the economic situation is. This should be a fundamental right that transcends all of that.

And no doubt most of the time these excuses come from people who already enjoy full voting rights and representation. Just the usual "i got mine, so screw you" attitude.

Puerto Rico, if it votes for statehood, should be accepted as our 51st state. Full stop. I think there are fair arguments against statehood for D.C. and some of the smaller Pacific territories, primarily that we already have too many tiny states who wield outsized influence in the Senate over more populous ones

[Virginiá]

Puerto Rico, if it votes for statehood, should be accepted as our 51st state. Full stop. I think there are fair arguments against statehood for D.C. and some of the smaller Pacific territories, primarily that we already have too many tiny states who wield outsized influence in the Senate over more populous ones

I can understand some arguments against statehood for DC but I am 100% behind 2 Senators/1 Rep for the district. If they can't get that, which would take a Constitutional amendment, then statehood is the only option and it shouldn't be denied. Although, reasonable levels of autonomy for DC is also an issue statehood would solve. Right now, Congress meddles far too much in their business.

As for the various territories - that is a good point, and I would argue that maybe they deserve representation as a whole, meaning 2 Senators / 1 Rep to represent all the territories. I'm unsure if Puerto Rico should be lumped in together with them, but looking at the combined population of the other territories - Roughly ~375,000 going by Wikipedia, I can see an argument for it at least.

Either way, I still think something should be done. I don't think anyone in America should be deprived of representation like this.

[Dr. Arch]

Puerto Rico, if it votes for statehood, should be accepted as our 51st state. Full stop. I think there are fair arguments against statehood for D.C. and some of the smaller Pacific territories, primarily that we already have too many tiny states who wield outsized influence in the Senate over more populous ones

I can understand some arguments against statehood for DC but I am 100% behind 2 Senators/1 Rep for the district. If they can't get that, which would take a Constitutional amendment, then statehood is the only option and it shouldn't be denied. Although, reasonable levels of autonomy for DC is also an issue statehood would solve. Right now, Congress meddles far too much in their business.

As for the various territories - that is a good point, and I would argue that maybe they deserve representation as a whole, meaning 2 Senators / 1 Rep to represent all the territories. I'm unsure if Puerto Rico should be lumped in together with them, but looking at the combined population of the other territories - Roughly ~375,000 going by Wikipedia, I can see an argument for it at least.

Either way, I still think something should be done. I don't think anyone in America should be deprived of representation like this.

Certainly. Puerto Rico has more citizens than a good number of states and more than 4 states combined if you choose the right ones. There is no need to break down or merge any other states to annex PR either. Recognize what is long due and be done with it.