Do you think the Dems are focusing too much on the Russia narrative?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I mean come on guys, it's starting to get silly. I never understand why partisans do this thing, where they pretend to adopt their opponents positions to be impressive or something. Obviously they should call for inquiries, but they're losing valuable time and political capital which should be spent focused on undermining the plutocratic nature of the GOP, not going on a Beltway hunt that few potential Dem voters care about. (At least, they didn't seem to care about the Russia links in the election, I don't see why they'll suddenly start caring now)

[Torie]

Yes, I agree. The Dems should wait until Trump actually take some policy action that is soft on Russia, and otherwise sucks. I tend to doubt that Trump the macho man would do that. He's already mad that Russia is selling missiles to Iran.

[ApatheticAustrian]

i can only speak for myself but i as a progressive leftist have always hated putin for different reasons since about 2005.

till 2013 i thought, cooperating on technocratic levels and treaties like START could be enough to wait until he is gone......which is why i supported obama's taunt regarding romney.

but ukraine 2013 and everything which followed changed the game in a fundamental way....putin is actively trying to kill liberal democracies and let them vote for the most radical elements, which today are always also funded and supported by the russian banks and information shadow empire.

russia stand against everything i believe in, on a global base and is as hostile as possible and the republicans have given in, like most far-right parties all over the world and feel more threatened by obama than by a russian autocrat.....

something happened during the election of 2016 and we could ofc just ignore it but that wouldn't make that truth go away. you could also call it bad politics but imho it's a question of principle.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Oh please with that Glenn Greenwald bs the "dems" aren't making this a story it's an actual story. It's like saying Watergate was "the dems focusing too much on Watergate" no it's am actual story being reported in the news

[ApatheticAustrian]

in fact, this plays out like watergate...after all nixon WON that election.

biggest difference...imagine nixon would have won through information he got from the plumbers. that literally happened in 2016.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

The thing is, Russia is such a paper tiger of a state. Its people are probably the unhealthiest in the developed world, its economy is nothing to brag about, it's largely disliked by its neighbours, its environment is wrecked, the population is stagnant and probably will start declining again and the whole system is kept afloat by increasingly cheap appeals to rabid nationalism and to the personality cult of Putin. I don't really see why people are so goddamned frightened of the country - unless you're from Latvia or something.

[Hindsight was 2020]

The thing is, Russia is such a paper tiger of a state. Its people are probably the unhealthiest in the developed world, its economy is nothing to brag about, it's largely disliked by its neighbours, its environment is wrecked, the population is stagnant and probably will start declining again and the whole system is kept afloat by increasingly cheap appeals to rabid nationalism and to the personality cult of Putin. I don't really see why people are so goddamned frightened of the country - unless you're from Latvia or something.

Ask Trump and his "Hillary will start WW3 with no fly zones in Syria so we must vote Trump for peace in our time" fans

[Virginiá]

I do agree that Democrats should make major efforts to undermine the GOP's agenda and highlight just how hard they are trying to stack the system against workers and in favor of corporations / the wealthy, but Democrats are not manipulating time and space to create meetings between Trump administration officials and Russian officials. These are all things Trump's circle has engaged in, and at this point there is a real question of whether there was deals made between Trump and the Russians. With all this thick smoke, there is probably a fire. Democrats can't really stop these tidbits from coming out and dominating the headlines. In fact, Trump himself seems to constantly make things worse as well.

So I wonder what exactly Democrats can do to reduce the focus on Russia short of actually defending Trump or being a party of Trump apologists/rationalizers like the GOP is right now. The bigger question is how Democrats begin to take control of the conversation and shift it to policy issues that will undermine the Republican Party. Right now, the news cycles are like one storm after another, the Democratic Party is just a boat in it, trying to stay the course.

[ApatheticAustrian]

The thing is, Russia is such a paper tiger of a state. Its people are probably the unhealthiest in the developed world, its economy is nothing to brag about, it's largely disliked by its neighbours, its environment is wrecked, the population is stagnant and probably will start declining again and the whole system is kept afloat by increasingly cheap appeals to rabid nationalism and to the personality cult of Putin. I don't really see why people are so goddamned frightened of the country - unless you're from Latvia or something.

you are practically right...and i thought like that in the past.

but 2013 changed my mind...putin is holding all his neighbouring countries as hostages, if they are not atm part of bigger organizations or powerful enough not to fear it.

since i am not knowledgeable enough yet and many users here are using the avatar feature in cute ways, i don't know if you are really living in the UK ,......but it's one of the few european countries, thanks to the majority voting system, which is in less risk of a pro-russian power grab and thanks to brexit it still can't counter Moscow's plans.

All over western europe, Russia - through information, rumor, money and ideological networking - is playing as a hostile superpower, trying to undermine all trust in democracy, liberalism, capitalism and democracy.,...and keeps winning, winning, winning, even while it is in crisis and decline itself.

Wounded predators may be not taken literally...but it is deadly to ignore them, imho.

[Beet]

There's nothing to be frightened of of any country.

[Crumpets]

I think they're focusing on the evil empire/old Cold War resentment aspect of it too much at the expense of the much more compelling "Trump has something to hide"/cover-up/perjury aspect.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Of course. Is the goal to make the Republicans who yelled "BENGHAZI" seem sane in comparison? It's time to talk about the issues.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Of course. Is the goal to make the Republicans who yelled "BENGHAZI" seem sane in comparison? It's time to talk about the issues.

As Virginia said "Democrats are not manipulating time and space to create meetings between Trump administration officials and Russian officials. These are all things Trump's circle has engaged in, and at this point there is a real question of whether there was deals made between Trump and the Russians."

[ApatheticAustrian]

Of course. Is the goal to make the Republicans who yelled "BENGHAZI" seem sane in comparison? It's time to talk about the issues.

this is in fact one of the most important issues for anyone interested in liberalism but i guess, if you think foreign policy is only a method to ignore all possible conflict areas, one can easily ignore it.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Of course. Is the goal to make the Republicans who yelled "BENGHAZI" seem sane in comparison? It's time to talk about the issues.

this is in fact one of the most important issues for anyone interested in liberalism but i guess, if you think foreign policy is only a method to ignore all possible conflict areas, one can easily ignore it.

No, it's not an important issue. Healthcare, the environment, and social security are important issues that the Democrats should be talking about.

[Trapsy]

I think they're focusing on the evil empire/old Cold War resentment aspect of it too much at the expense of the much more compelling "Trump has something to hide"/cover-up/perjury aspect.

I disagree, they are really focused on the "hiding" aspect. You can't turn on a news program without a democrat calling for a independent investigation. I like the way Maddow has been covering it lately, It makes more sense on that Trump is colluding with the Russians on a corruption is mostly driven by financial/oil corrupt incentives rather than a realignment for american foreign policy

[ApatheticAustrian]

No, it's not an important issue. Healthcare, the environment, and social security are important issues that the Democrats should be talking about.

they should and they are.

doesn't mean the undermining of all your liberal allies and trying to change your commitment to democracy is a good thing.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

No, it's not an important issue. Healthcare, the environment, and social security are important issues that the Democrats should be talking about.

they should and they are.

doesn't mean the undermining of all your liberal allies and trying to change your commitment to democracy is a good thing.

Yelling Russia to try to distract people from the Podesta e-mails is undermining progressives. The Democratic party needs to stop throwing progressives under the bus.

[ApatheticAustrian]

Yelling Russia to try to distract people from the Podesta e-mails is undermining progressives. The Democratic party needs to stop throwing progressives under the bus.

in fact the useless information inside the podesty nothingburgers was used to confuse people with the real actual critical missing hillary emails and obtained by a conspiracy of far-right or anarchistic groups, who try to undermine liberalism and democracy.

progressives are jumping themselves sometimes, cause they think more about their social-democratic "traitor" allies than their actual enemies.

[Crumpets]

I think they're focusing on the evil empire/old Cold War resentment aspect of it too much at the expense of the much more compelling "Trump has something to hide"/cover-up/perjury aspect.

I disagree, they are really focused on the "hiding" aspect. You can't turn on a news program without a democrat calling for a independent investigation. I like the way Maddow has been covering it lately, It makes more sense on that Trump is colluding with the Russians on a corruption is mostly driven by financial/oil corrupt incentives rather than a realignment for american foreign policy

Maddow's coverage has been particularly good recently, I agree.

[pbrower2a]

I think they're focusing on the evil empire/old Cold War resentment aspect of it too much at the expense of the much more compelling "Trump has something to hide"/cover-up/perjury aspect.

I disagree, they are really focused on the "hiding" aspect. You can't turn on a news program without a democrat calling for a independent investigation. I like the way Maddow has been covering it lately, It makes more sense on that Trump is colluding with the Russians on a corruption is mostly driven by financial/oil corrupt incentives rather than a realignment for American foreign policy

Maddow's coverage has been particularly good recently, I agree.

She (which really mean that she has some good accountants on her staff)  has followed the money.  Money is the truth behind many high-value crimes because a crime involving big money is tricky to hide.

[Blue3]

The problem is that there's been a bunch of non-stop developments in the Russia story for the last 2-3 weeks.

And in that same time, Trump hasn't done anything policy-wise that's a big story like the Ban was.

Let's not kid ourselves. This Russia/Trump story is a huge crisis in public confidence in government... and possibly in national security... in unprecedented ways.

Also, from the purely political perspective, the only thing to come out against Trump so far that actually bothers a majority of Trump supporters is the Russia story.

[Hindsight was 2020]

The problem is that there's been a bunch of non-stop developments in the Russia story for the last 2-3 weeks.

And in that same time, Trump hasn't done anything policy-wise that's a big story like the Ban was.

Let's not kid ourselves. This Russia/Trump story is a huge crisis in public confidence in government... and possibly in national security... in unprecedented ways.

Also, from the purely political perspective, the only thing to come out against Trump so far that actually bothers a majority of Trump supporters is the Russia story.

^This^ Seriously how are the dems not suppose to talk about it the president of the United States may have worked with a foreign power to hack his political enemies in order to win. Just because some here felt "they deserved it" doesn't mean it is not the worst scandal since Watergate

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Yes, and in the long run voters really not going to care much.

[Sumner 1868]

It's their own version of Whitewater at this point.