Remember the post-2012 Republican "autopsy?"

[All Along The Watchtower]

Yeah...

[catographer]

Reason to be skeptical of calls for Dems to appeal to white-working class again. GOP doubled-down on their white base with Trump and won instead of appealing to more diverse voters.

[Sumner 1868]

Reason to be skeptical of calls for Dems to appeal to white-working class again. GOP doubled-down on their white base with Trump and won instead of appealing to more diverse voters.

Yes, they doubled-down through the primaries, but Trump also made inroads with people who had previously not been in their base. Democrats can both boost turnout among minorities and improved their standing with white voters, but this would require a coherent vision instead of data-driven nonsense.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

Reason to be skeptical of calls for Dems to appeal to white-working class again. GOP doubled-down on their white base with Trump and won instead of appealing to more diverse voters.

The election came down to less than 1% margins in three rust belt states. You honestly don't think democrats could've swayed just a few more of this demographic to pull out a victory in 2016?

Hillary Clinton never even stepped foot in Wisconsin during the general election. Democrats took these states and these voters for granted.

I can understand democrats trying to increase minority turnout for 2020; this makes sense. But trying to win over moderate upper class suburbanites to replace the WWC voters that are bleeding from their Party? Forget about it.

-But upper class suburbanites have more money to donate than the WWC.

[Pericles]

Reason to be skeptical of calls for Dems to appeal to white-working class again. GOP doubled-down on their white base with Trump and won instead of appealing to more diverse voters.

The election came down to less than 1% margins in three rust belt states. You honestly don't think democrats could've swayed just a few more of this demographic to pull out a victory in 2016?

Hillary Clinton never even stepped foot in Wisconsin during the general election. Democrats took these states and these voters for granted.

I can understand democrats trying to increase minority turnout for 2020; this makes sense. But trying to win over moderate upper class suburbanites to replace the WWC voters that are bleeding from their Party? Forget about it.

-But upper class suburbanites have more money to donate than the WWC.

That was so helpful for Hillary Clinton.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The post 2012 autopsy was a strategy for how to win the popular vote, not the electoral college, and do so in a way that keeps the big donors happy.

Turns out, the best strategy for winning the EC was to flip the big donors off.

[catographer]

Reason to be skeptical of calls for Dems to appeal to white-working class again. GOP doubled-down on their white base with Trump and won instead of appealing to more diverse voters.

The election came down to less than 1% margins in three rust belt states. You honestly don't think democrats could've swayed just a few more of this demographic to pull out a victory in 2016?

Hillary Clinton never even stepped foot in Wisconsin during the general election. Democrats took these states and these voters for granted.

I can understand democrats trying to increase minority turnout for 2020; this makes sense. But trying to win over moderate upper class suburbanites to replace the WWC voters that are bleeding from their Party? Forget about it.

There is room to grow among the voters that swung to Clinton; more upper-class suburban whites to win in the Midwest. Kent, Waukesha, Ozaukee for example. Also Chester and Bucks in PA.
Though I see your point. Dems need to find an opening somewhere.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The post 2012 autopsy was a strategy for how to win the popular vote, not the electoral college, and do so in a way that keeps the big donors happy.

Turns out, the best strategy for winning the EC was to flip the big donors off.

I can't wait to see how the dividends of this pyrrhic victory pay off

This implies that the donor driven GOP (aka Paul Ryan) is any better at appealing a wider audience. It is not, because it is too ideologically driven and to aloof about the plight of struggling Americans. That is why Romney/Ryan lost.

The difference with and the lesson from Trump, is that he "talked" a good game on the subject. It wasn't just "we need to do this, because of x philosophical reason", it was "we need to do y because people are getting killed out there".

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

The fundamentals have always been the same: non-college Whites are always the swingiest vote, and they formed a solid third of the Obama coalition (more than college Whites):
https://twitter.com/xenocryptsite/status/788800872423821312

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

The fundamentals have always been the same: non-college Whites are always the swingiest vote, and they formed a solid third of the Obama coalition (more than college Whites):
https://twitter.com/xenocryptsite/status/788800872423821312

2007: The fundamentals have always been the same: a white male is always elected President.

-Don't see what that has to do with anything I said. Everyone knew in 08 either HRC or Barry would be elected prez.

[White Trash]

The fundamentals have always been the same: non-college Whites are always the swingiest vote, and they formed a solid third of the Obama coalition (more than college Whites):
https://twitter.com/xenocryptsite/status/788800872423821312

2007: The fundamentals have always been the same: a white male is always elected President.

Not an argument

[All Along The Watchtower]

Upper income moderate whites are the most underrated group in this forum.. and poor rural whites are the most overrated.  Suburban whites and minorities are growing segments of the population, rural whites are not.  Republicans "win" one Presidential election and everyone acts like the fundamentals have been radically altered.

How many of those "upper income moderate whites" voted for Democrats downballot?

Anecdotally, I have a couple of friends down in Orange County, CA. While they are both Democrats*, most of the (white) people they know are not - far from it. Of the many Republican voters down there, both of these friends of mine said that most either voted for Trump (some enthusiastically, others who "held their noses") or Johnson. In fact, between the two of them, they knew of only one Republican voter who "bit the bullet" for Clinton, and it's extremely unlikely that that person voted Democratic for any other office. Take that for what it's worth.

EDIT: One of them is a reliable Democrat as far as I know, while the other has voted for both major parties but usually votes for Democrats; he might have voted for Johnson, though I'm not positive on that.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

Trump won the White vote in Orange County, no doubt, but he did much worse than Romney or downballot Republicans.

[Technocracy Timmy]

Upper income moderate whites are the most underrated group in this forum.. and poor rural whites are the most overrated.  Suburban whites and minorities are growing segments of the population, rural whites are not.  Republicans "win" one Presidential election and everyone acts like the fundamentals have been radically altered.

How many of those "upper income moderate whites" voted for Democrats downballot?

Anecdotally, I have a couple of friends down in Orange County, CA. While they are both Democrats*, most of the (white) people they know are not - far from it. Of the many Republican voters down there, both of these friends of mine said that most either voted for Trump (some enthusiastically, others who "held their noses") or Johnson. In fact, between the two of them, they knew of only one Republican voter who "bit the bullet" for Clinton, and it's extremely unlikely that that person voted Democratic for any other office. Take that for what it's worth.

EDIT: One of them is a reliable Democrat as far as I know, while the other has voted for both major parties but usually votes for Democrats; he might have voted for Johnson, though I'm not positive on that.

This is accurate. I've lived in Orange County since I was two years old and this description is solid.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

Trump won the White vote in Orange County, no doubt, but he did much worse than Romney or downballot Republicans.

He probably won the white vote in Fairfax County as well, or at least came pretty close to winning it.  The problem is, the main argument I hear promoted for why the GOP can ignore demographic changes is because they can increase their share of the white vote.  OK... well they've increased it about as much as they can in rural areas.  So then these are the areas where they need to start upping their margins... Orange, Fairfax, Fairfield... how is that going to happen with such conservative positions?

-No; NonSwing, winning exactly a third of the White vote in Fairax is not even remotely equivalent to winning it or coming close. And Fairfax, like CA, actually lost White people between 2000 and 2010.

Last time I heard, Trump lost Maine -not a state known for its large nonwhite or urban population. The GOP has not come close to maxing out rural areas.

See; NonSwing, you gotta get your facts straight.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

Trump won the White vote in Orange County, no doubt, but he did much worse than Romney or downballot Republicans.

He probably won the white vote in Fairfax County as well, or at least came pretty close to winning it.  The problem is, the main argument I hear promoted for why the GOP can ignore demographic changes is because they can increase their share of the white vote.  OK... well they've increased it about as much as they can in rural areas.  So then these are the areas where they need to start upping their margins... Orange, Fairfax, Fairfield... how is that going to happen with such conservative positions?

-No; NonSwing, winning exactly a third of the White vote in Fairax is not even remotely equivalent to winning it or coming close. And Fairfax, like CA, actually lost White people between 2000 and 2010.

Last time I heard, Trump lost Maine -not a state known for its large nonwhite or urban population. The GOP has not come close to maxing out rural areas.

See; NonSwing, you gotta get your facts straight.

Do you have a source regarding the fact that Trump won exactly a third of the white vote in Fairfax btw?  I'd be genuinely interested to see this info.

-Do you even read this forum?
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=258343.0