So apparently Clinton lost because Putin manipulated Sanders supporters.
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  So apparently Clinton lost because Putin manipulated Sanders supporters.
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Author Topic: So apparently Clinton lost because Putin manipulated Sanders supporters.  (Read 963 times)
Confused Democrat
reidmill
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« on: March 13, 2017, 03:59:04 AM »

Heres a long article I couldn't be bothered to finish about it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-fake-news-russia_us_58c34d97e4b0ed71826cdb36

Anyways, I saw this article being spread around in pro-Clinton enclaves of the internet, and the responses I'm seeing are...disheartening.

I mean, you can just take a look at the comment sections, but this crap isn't helpful to your cause Democrats:

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Painting Sanders supporters with a broad brush and calling them "Bernie Bros" and saying that Clinton lost because Sanders supporters were gullible enough believe Russian propaganda is, well, stupid.

Stop making up excuses for why you lost. YOU LOST! Get it through your thick skulls. You didn't lose because of Russia, you didn't lose because of "Bernie Bros", and you didn't lose because of Comey. You lost because Hillary Clinton was a colossally bad candidate.







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Fusionmunster
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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2017, 06:54:05 AM »

You made a thread because you got offended by some random, Huffington Post comments? Okay...
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Chief Justice Keef
etr906
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« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2017, 07:46:16 AM »

The delusion of some of these people is staggering.
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Beet
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2017, 08:00:51 AM »

You made a thread because you got offended by some random, Huffington Post comments? Okay...
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2017, 08:26:18 AM »

We lost because too few people could see through the demagogic appeal of Donald Trump. We have an educational system that teaches no values, and people who believe in nothing noble invariably fall for something base -- economic gain and sundry forms of bigotry. Donald Trump pulled one of the oldest cons, Bait and Switch, and we are all stuck with it. If I could see through the emptiness of the slogan "Make America Great Again", millions saw in  it whatever they wanted to believe that it meant. Donald Trump used his vulgarity as an appeal to people who, lacking any moral value beyond economic gain, naturally share his cultural values. 

Millions are in economic distress because Big Business chose to be importers instead of manufacturers. Now America gets to experiment in a pure, dehumanized plutocracy that enriches the well-connected at the expense of everyone else. I expect to thoroughly hate life except when I can escape it into something outside this world.

String quartets by Franz Josef Haydn, anyone?
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BRTD
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« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2017, 08:43:33 AM »

Hey guys maybe I should find a video on YouTube with stupid comments and go make a thread hand wringing about it.
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Confused Democrat
reidmill
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« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2017, 08:46:16 AM »

You made a thread because you got offended by some random, Huffington Post comments? Okay...
You made a thread because you got offended by some random, Huffington Post comments? Okay...

Yes, I'm a petty person who gets triggered easily. I'm also annoyed at how most democrats blame everybody and everything but Hillary Clinton for the 2016 election result.

That's what this thread is mostly about.
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BRTD
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« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2017, 08:48:56 AM »

You made a thread because you got offended by some random, Huffington Post comments? Okay...
You made a thread because you got offended by some random, Huffington Post comments? Okay...

Yes, I'm a petty person who gets triggered easily. I'm also annoyed at how most democrats blame everybody and everything but Hillary Clinton for the 2016 election result.

That's what this thread is mostly about.

LOL anyone who gets triggered by Huffington Post comments should get off the Internet. This is even more trivial than those "a random local politician somewhere just said something stupid" or "a few students at some university throw a fit about something stupid" threads.
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Confused Democrat
reidmill
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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2017, 09:22:24 AM »

You made a thread because you got offended by some random, Huffington Post comments? Okay...
You made a thread because you got offended by some random, Huffington Post comments? Okay...

Yes, I'm a petty person who gets triggered easily. I'm also annoyed at how most democrats blame everybody and everything but Hillary Clinton for the 2016 election result.

That's what this thread is mostly about.

LOL anyone who gets triggered by Huffington Post comments should get off the Internet. This is even more trivial than those "a random local politician somewhere just said something stupid" or "a few students at some university throw a fit about something stupid" threads.

Yet no one want's to address the broader topic of my initial post.

This thread wasn't about me being triggered by some Huff Post comments, it was about how Democrats are still trying to make excuses for why Hillary lost. Bernie bros brainwashed by Putin, Comey, Russia, third parties! Anything and everything but Queen Hillary.





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Harry
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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2017, 10:01:07 AM »

To be fair, Jill Stein is a KGB agent and/or asset like Trump, so anyone who voted for her fell for Russian propaganda.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2017, 10:31:12 AM »

It's the concern troll.
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Virginiá
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2017, 12:01:36 PM »

Look, a couple things:

1. Not all of us Democrats are blaming everyone but her. She was a terrible candidate, and should have dropped out once the email thing started growing. However, given the margins in rust belt and other trends in the final days, Comey probably did sink her, and the trickle of emails from the DNC/Podesta very clearly generated animosity within the ranks and among some other voters, so Russia definitely did hurt. This could have been avoided if she hadn't gotten the nomination, but it's still a factor in her loss

2. It's only been like 4 months since the election. At least give the party time to come to terms with their loss here. Just because the Bernie wing thinks it has the answers here (maybe it does), doesn't mean everyone is just going to accept it as soon as they lose the election. From their perspective, there is no guarantee other factions on the left are any more correct in their ideas than they (Clinton supporters) thought they were.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2017, 12:18:32 PM »

You made a thread because you got offended by some random, Huffington Post comments? Okay...
You made a thread because you got offended by some random, Huffington Post comments? Okay...

Yes, I'm a petty person who gets triggered easily. I'm also annoyed at how most democrats blame everybody and everything but Hillary Clinton for the 2016 election result.

That's what this thread is mostly about.

LOL anyone who gets triggered by Huffington Post comments should get off the Internet. This is even more trivial than those "a random local politician somewhere just said something stupid" or "a few students at some university throw a fit about something stupid" threads.

Yet no one want's to address the broader topic of my initial post.

This thread wasn't about me being triggered by some Huff Post comments, it was about how Democrats are still trying to make excuses for why Hillary lost. Bernie bros brainwashed by Putin, Comey, Russia, third parties! Anything and everything but Queen Hillary.



     This is something I have noticed as well. Those are just comments on an article, but they are emblematic of a much broader trend where many Democrats are eager to cast aspersions on people with differing views and double down on the same mistakes that cost them the election.

     There are also people, including Virginia in the post right above me, who make the point that the election just happened a few months ago and more time is needed. It is true that the election is still very recent and not everyone has moved on, but it is also worth noting that every day this sort of nonsense continues it hurts the Democrats' image. The New York Times ran an article a few days after the election analyzing the critical strategic flaws that sunk the Clinton campaign, so to still be passing the blame months later is an embarrassing failure of strategic judgment.
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Beet
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2017, 12:23:06 PM »

Except literally no one has been arguing that Clinton ran a flawless campaign, and virtually no one thinks she will run again. The problem is that people take any argument that Clinton wasn't treated fairly in the campaign or any discussion of the underhanded tricks that undermined her, as implying that any criticism towards her is invalid, but that's not the case. The people complaining about this stuff generally accepted the criticism about her and her campaign long ago.
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Eharding
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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2017, 12:27:15 PM »

You made a thread because you got offended by some random, Huffington Post comments? Okay...
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Eharding
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« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2017, 12:28:43 PM »

Look, a couple things:

1. Not all of us Democrats are blaming everyone but her. She was a terrible candidate, and should have dropped out once the email thing started growing. However, given the margins in rust belt and other trends in the final days, Comey probably did sink her, and the trickle of emails from the DNC/Podesta very clearly generated animosity within the ranks and among some other voters, so Russia definitely did hurt. This could have been avoided if she hadn't gotten the nomination, but it's still a factor in her loss

2. It's only been like 4 months since the election. At least give the party time to come to terms with their loss here. Just because the Bernie wing thinks it has the answers here (maybe it does), doesn't mean everyone is just going to accept it as soon as they lose the election. From their perspective, there is no guarantee other factions on the left are any more correct in their ideas than they (Clinton supporters) thought they were.

-Surprisingly reasonable post.
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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2017, 12:30:21 PM »

it is true that comey sunk clinton.

it is true that the russians may have sunk clinton.

it is true that WL ofc sunk clinton.

and so did about a dozen other reasons, each and everyone big enough, that even changing a single one of those variables would have changed the election.

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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2017, 12:41:52 PM »

even while i am pretty sure, stein and trump aren't paid by the russian intelligence, they are - with or without their consent - tools of the russian counter-narrative and have good connections inside of moscow.
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BRTD
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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2017, 10:34:53 PM »

even while i am pretty sure, stein and trump aren't paid by the russian intelligence, they are - with or without their consent - tools of the russian counter-narrative and have good connections inside of moscow.

Which is distinct from the far more line that's been both explicitly and implicitly pushed, in much the same fashion as the Obama-Kenya nonsense. Some Republicans flirted with it more openly than others, while others were completely forward about it. Maybe one of the more vocal celebrities pushing the "Trump is a son of Russia!" line will win the Democratic nomination in seven years. Crazier things have happened.

OK why is it that Putin is the one single major world leader that Trump has not insulted or criticized in any way?
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Xing
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« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2017, 11:27:58 PM »

Lesson #1 of the internet: Whenever reading an article or watching a video online, DO NOT READ THE COMMENTS.

But anyway, from my own experience, there were definitely some people who supported Hillary in the primary who painted Sanders supporters with a broad brush. In their minds, any Sanders supporter who was less than enamored with Clinton must be buying into Republican propaganda against her, and not thinking for themselves. They were too quick to assume that any reservations people had about Hillary must have been due to sexism or being an uninformed idiot. Now, maybe a minority of Sanders supporters disliked Hillary for those reasons, but many voiced legitimate concerns about her, and felt that those concerned were never addressed, and they were instead told to keep quiet.

Don't get me wrong, I was quite fumed on election night, and said some things I'm not proud of and would rather not repeat. But the blame game doesn't help much, in the long run. Sure, there were factors beyond Clinton's control that contributed to her loss, but there are definitely mistakes that her campaign and the Democrats made which can be addressed in the coming years, and we shouldn't waste any time in doing so.
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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2017, 11:31:30 PM »

since i recently read a looooooooot of comments and takes about the DNC leadership race, i would say the "blame"-game is popular on .....both sides. (even while, ofc, sanders supporters are kind of over-represented on sites like atlas.)
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2017, 11:52:33 PM »

Except literally no one has been arguing that Clinton ran a flawless campaign, and virtually no one thinks she will run again. The problem is that people take any argument that Clinton wasn't treated fairly in the campaign or any discussion of the underhanded tricks that undermined her, as implying that any criticism towards her is invalid, but that's not the case. The people complaining about this stuff generally accepted the criticism about her and her campaign long ago.

     Clinton got an advantage from the press, who consistently treated Trump as a joke. Sure it seems to have backfired, but they weren't trying to treat her unfairly. Some things came up that hurt her, granted, and some were more valid than others. But my point still stands: if Democrats accept the criticism of her campaign, why do they engage in some of the same activities that she is criticized for?
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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2017, 12:04:03 AM »

wasn't one definition of intelligence...can't remember whose....to remain functional in the eye of two seemingly contradicting truths which are both valid at the same time?

seems like a good call.
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jfern
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« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2017, 05:01:39 AM »

Putin must have rigged the Democratic primary so that Trump could win.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2017, 05:28:12 AM »

Hey guys maybe I should find a video on YouTube with stupid comments and go make a thread hand wringing about it.

BRTD, please look at your "contributions" on FC.
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