Trumpcare Megathread: It's dead (for now)

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Probably a bit exaggerated, but the overall finding is clear: The right path is to revise ObamaCare, not tear apart its core tenets.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Meh...this bill is DOA anyway

Also...Dean Heller - NV said he's not voting for it and even said "the ACA is not all bad"

I'll believe Heller's against this when I see him vote against it on the senate floor, and not before. He voted for 100% of Trump's cabinet. Doesn't look very moderate/pragmatic/sensible.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Well, GOP, good luck winning anything if you pass this - you will lose the senior vote by YUGE landslides in every state.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Maybe we should just keep ObamaCare...oh right, we can't support anything that's done by a black guy...except when he wants to expand Medicaid in red states.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

That uninsured # has gone down 1 mil with each new version, so I guess all we have to do is get to TrumpCare 25.0 to have a helpful bill.


Anyways, it is very clear now that this bill is terrible and should not be supported by any sane person or politician. Enough said.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Repeal and replace with nothing.

And watch 23 million people die on the street.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Repeal and replace with nothing.

And watch 23 million people die on the street.

Those people did not die on the street before Obamacare.

Freedom isn't free.

They certainly did, remember even McCain had a decent health care reform plan - no one truly wanted to remain on the current system. ObamaCare prevented numerous deaths, but if repeal only occurs, those deaths will no longer be prevented.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Nice straw man argument, jfern.

So where's the plan?

Dems have wanted to restore the risk corridors that Rubio sabotage, add a public option, and increase the subsides. Just doing those three things could improve the ACA dramatically.

Seriously, they have been talking about this for the last couple of years now.

Why didn't they add a public option or even better single payer in the first place? Even single payer might not be far enough. The UK has a national health system, and spends less than half as much per capita as the US. They really should have done healthcare right in the first place, rather than copying some Republican idea. Democrats have had 7 years to come up with a better system, and I don't hear much about it from them, except for the few who are progressive enough to support single payer, which Hillary said would never happen.

Single Payer is Socialist, unamerican, and unaffordable

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Nice straw man argument, jfern.

So where's the plan?

Dems have wanted to restore the risk corridors that Rubio sabotage, add a public option, and increase the subsides. Just doing those three things could improve the ACA dramatically.

Seriously, they have been talking about this for the last couple of years now.

Why didn't they add a public option or even better single payer in the first place? Even single payer might not be far enough. The UK has a national health system, and spends less than half as much per capita as the US. They really should have done healthcare right in the first place, rather than copying some Republican idea. Democrats have had 7 years to come up with a better system, and I don't hear much about it from them, except for the few who are progressive enough to support single payer, which Hillary said would never happen.

Single Payer is Socialist, unamerican, and unaffordable

Roads and schools are socialist, and the UK spends only 43% as much as the US on healthcare.

Roads are built by private companies and thus are not socialism. Even public schools are largely under local/state control - without complete control by the federal government, it is not socialism. Single payer health care is solely controlled by the federal government and destroys an industry by banning private insurance, which is what makes it socialist. Single Payer health care is also likely increase the deficit, and inevitably results in long, unconsciable waits for surgeries and other time sensitive procedures.

In fact, you can see how terrible single payer is without going overseas. It's called the Veterans Hospitals. Tons of ethics scandals, no accountability, huge backlogs and wait periods, people literally dying due to lack of care. And now I'm supposed to believe that single payer is good for the whole country?

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Nice straw man argument, jfern.

So where's the plan?

Dems have wanted to restore the risk corridors that Rubio sabotage, add a public option, and increase the subsides. Just doing those three things could improve the ACA dramatically.

Seriously, they have been talking about this for the last couple of years now.

Why didn't they add a public option or even better single payer in the first place? Even single payer might not be far enough. The UK has a national health system, and spends less than half as much per capita as the US. They really should have done healthcare right in the first place, rather than copying some Republican idea. Democrats have had 7 years to come up with a better system, and I don't hear much about it from them, except for the few who are progressive enough to support single payer, which Hillary said would never happen.

Lieberman killed the public option in the senate bill in 2009. Obama let it go because he didn't have enough votes to spare. As for single-payer, they didn't go that route because they aren't stupid. Over 60% of Americans get their health insurance through their employers and most are content with their coverage. Single-payer would have upended that, just look how much grief Obama took when one million of Americans lost their plans after the ACA passage (and the majority of those plans were junk plans!), now imagine the backlash the Democrats would face for kicking people of their plans, which they like, and slapping on a tax-hike to pay for it? On top of that, there is the whole issue of the impact a single-payer system would have on the health industry in terms of jobs.

The Democrats mistake (besides the lack of a public option) was the subsides were too low in the ACA. It is a pity, they really should have passed the house bill, which was far stronger then the senate bill.

The reconciliation bill only needed 50 votes, and so really didn't need Lieberman's vote. They should have gotten 50 senators to support a stronger bill. This bill was passed after Scott Brown took office, so there's no way they were getting 60 votes, anyways.

Roads are built by private companies and thus are not socialism. Even public schools are largely under local/state control - without complete control by the federal government, it is not socialism. Single payer health care is solely controlled by the federal government and destroys an industry by banning private insurance, which is what makes it socialist. Single Payer health care is also likely increase the deficit, and inevitably results in long, unconsciable waits for surgeries and other time sensitive procedures.

In fact, you can see how terrible single payer is without going overseas. It's called the Veterans Hospitals. Tons of ethics scandals, no accountability, huge backlogs and wait periods, people literally dying due to lack of care. And now I'm supposed to believe that single payer is good for the whole country?

Roads can be built by the state. Why does it matter who builds them? And the state and local governments are still governments. The idea that they can't be socialist is ridiculous. In California, most of the school funding comes from the state, which would be one of the largest economies in the world if it was its own country. Gosh, there's some poorly run program, that proves that nothing can be run correctly.

The bulk of ObamaCare was passed under normal legislative rules in December 2009, before Brown was elected, on a party line 60 to 39 vote. The reconciliation bill was composed of fairly minor amendments and passed by a narrower margin (several conservadems voted against it).

Okay, believe that single payer wouldn't be like the veterans hospitals, or that its wait times wouldn't mirror the unconsciable wait times that exist in the UK. Just don't come crying to me when you realize your beliefs are incorrect.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

The bulk of ObamaCare was passed under normal legislative rules in December 2009, before Brown was elected, on a party line 60 to 39 vote. The reconciliation bill was composed of fairly minor amendments and passed by a narrower margin (several conservadems voted against it).

Okay, believe that single payer wouldn't be like the veterans hospitals, or that its wait times wouldn't mirror the unconsciable wait times that exist in the UK. Just don't come crying to me when you realize your beliefs are incorrect.

The reconciliation bill could have been much more major. And LOL at the idea that no one ever waits for healthcare in the US.

They wait far less than they would under single payer

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Time may be running out for Republicans in the Senate as well. They are currently on a week long holiday for July the 4th, and won't be back until July 10th. They will also then be on their summer vacation starting on the 28th of July until early September. That only gives them 18 days to try to hammer out a deal. There is supposed to be a big nasty fight over the budget and debt limit in September that will occupy their time as well. Each month closer to the 2018 election Republicans keep their disastrous health care plan alive, the more people will remember in November 2018.

FWIW, Ben Sasse has been suggesting that the August Recess could be canceled if a health care bill doesn't pass congress in July.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Time may be running out for Republicans in the Senate as well. They are currently on a week long holiday for July the 4th, and won't be back until July 10th. They will also then be on their summer vacation starting on the 28th of July until early September. That only gives them 18 days to try to hammer out a deal. There is supposed to be a big nasty fight over the budget and debt limit in September that will occupy their time as well. Each month closer to the 2018 election Republicans keep their disastrous health care plan alive, the more people will remember in November 2018.

FWIW, Ben Sasse has been suggesting that the August Recess could be canceled if a health care bill doesn't pass congress in July.

There is 0 chance McConnell cancels August recess. 0. None.

What makes you so convinced? I doubt most Rs would care, I don't think they enjoy getting yelled at at town halls.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

BREAKING: McConnell delays the vote.

http://politi.co/2tWbafA

Congratulations, Atlas! You won one more week of ObamaCare!

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

It's so sad that so many people are lying about the negative implications of the bill in order to push their partisan agenda. Over 20 million losing their health insurance, and they don't care. And for what? What are they gaining? It's sad.

They were elected on a promise to repeal and replace ObamaCare.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

They were elected on a promise to repeal and replace ObamaCare.

I thought a lot of GOP Senators ran on just repealing it - such as those from 2012 and 2014. Didn't repeal and replace come later?

If you go by what they said for years prior to 2017, it was mostly just repealing ObamaCare. It was quite foolish to think that alone would fly, but politicians rarely favor practical long-term solutions when it is not convenient.

Maybe for some congressional people, but both Romney and Trump had the "replace".

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

They were elected on a promise to repeal and replace ObamaCare.

I thought a lot of GOP Senators ran on just repealing it - such as those from 2012 and 2014. Didn't repeal and replace come later?

If you go by what they said for years prior to 2017, it was mostly just repealing ObamaCare. It was quite foolish to think that alone would fly, but politicians rarely favor practical long-term solutions when it is not convenient.

Maybe for some congressional people, but both Romney and Trump had the "replace".

Donald Trump explicitly stated "We're going to take care of everybody" and promised no Medicare or Medicaid cuts.

So, no, there is no overwhelming mandate to repeal and replace the ACA.

Trump also stated "We're going to repeal Obamacare and replace it something so much better."

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

These are links to the official statements:

https://www.lee.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=press-releases&id=988195A6-7C42-4878-A59F-3FA344D170C9

https://mobile.twitter.com/JerryMoran/status/887108026246803456

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Moran does not surprise me. He had been hearing from rural Kansas and I mentioned a couple of pages back he was a potential vote to look at it. Lee surprises me though.

Moran, from what I know of his concerns, is a hard no if he came out. It's not that the bill is too liberal or whatever. He is more worried about Kansas hospitals.

TrumpCare is probably dead if they stick to their guns.

It's actually kind of admirable of Moran to be so concerned for his constituents.

Sam Brownback proved there is no electoral price to be paid in Kansas for running your state into the ground.

Brownback had the advantage of running for reelection in 2014.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Moran is claiming ideological issues with it, aka Lee. But any movement towards lee would cost them Heller and more moderate expansion state Republicans.

Yeah, I think McConnell's gonna pull it but we'll see what Mitch does.

Question is if McConnell wants to give up/go bipartisan, or if he wants to try yet another draft of the BCRA. If the former, I imagine he holds a vote even knowing it will fail, as a way to bring closure on the issue. If the latter, no vote will be held on this specific draft.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

#repealanddelay is a very poor strategically economically. Republicans  know this because they rejected that strategy in February, and nothing has changed since then.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I think alot of people on here are looking at this the wrong way...Lee and Moron are using this as leverage to push Trumpcare even further to the right because they expect the moderates will cave. If the so called moderates didnt speak up last week then they know they could probably cuck some more demands out of them.

McCain seems to be a no, just called for the Senate to start over and hold open meetings

Graham is also calling to start over

I dont think they can start over...they basically have a month and a half till the window for reconciliation closes and McCain's neurosurgeon says he'll be out for weeks

A bipartisan bill, which is what Graham and McCain want, would be passed under the normal legislative process, with at least 60 votes.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

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They are going to start hearings on ACA market stabilization.

Wow.

I must say that I was really thinking that some version of ObamaCare repeal would pass, as this is a republican caucus who approved DeVos, who is objectively and extremely unqualified for her position. Based on that, they should be lapdogs for Trump.  But they have decided not to be, and that is very admirable. I thank them and God for getting us to a place where the conversation has turned from repeal/replace to revision, which is where I have always believed the conversation should be.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Would there be any value in Democrats voting Yes on the MTP to force a vote on the actual thing, with the idea being that a bill officially voted down is more "dead" than one that just had an MTP fail, or more likely, pulled?

Or would that backfire spectacularly?

What the MTP passing would do is launch an open amendment process, through which a deal republicans like enough could possibly be reached. Too risky.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

^ That should act as an important trial of Paul Ryan's theory: That while the caucus may say this or that before the vote, they will vote yes when they are forced to actually vote.