Russia deploying forces in Libya, Egypt
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 06:27:40 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  International General Discussion (Moderators: afleitch, Hash)
  Russia deploying forces in Libya, Egypt
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Russia deploying forces in Libya, Egypt  (Read 596 times)
Blue3
Starwatcher
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,035
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: March 13, 2017, 11:58:17 PM »

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-libya-exclusive-idUSKBN16K2RY

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/14/russian-special-forces-deployed-in-egypt-near-libyan-border-report
Logged
ApatheticAustrian
ApathicAustrian
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,603
Austria


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2017, 12:04:58 AM »

winter is coming.

well...quite an obvious result....this is what empires do....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIFZsbEuMXE


and i guess the US has effectively ended its mayor role in the non-monarchistic states of the middle east/northern africa. only the kingdoms hold..for now.
Logged
○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,615


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2017, 12:08:04 AM »

In 1956, some wanted the US to be involved militarily in Egypt to reduce Russian influence, but a Republican President said no.
Logged
ApatheticAustrian
ApathicAustrian
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,603
Austria


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2017, 12:15:31 AM »

In 1956, some wanted the US to be involved militarily in Egypt to reduce Russian influence, but a Republican President said no.

may i humbly ask you about your opinion of the daily growing reactionary empire russia is in our days and time?

since you usually only comment about russia somehow annoyed re: the 2016 election, i am kind of curious.
Logged
○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,615


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2017, 12:20:44 AM »
« Edited: March 14, 2017, 12:24:02 AM by ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ »

In 1956, some wanted the US to be involved militarily in Egypt to reduce Russian influence, but a Republican President said no.

may i humbly ask you about your opinion of the daily growing reactionary empire russia is in our days and time?

since you usually only comment about russia somehow annoyed re: the 2016 election, i am kind of curious.

Obviously the Putin regime is a terrible regime, but there are worse regimes, such as Saudi Arabia, and the United States has more important issues to worry about.
Logged
ApatheticAustrian
ApathicAustrian
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,603
Austria


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2017, 12:26:15 AM »

Obviously the Putin regime is not a good regime, but there are worse regimes, such as Saudi Arabia, and the United States has more important issues to worry about.

ah....well, i can somehow understand and respect that as the view of an US inhabitant, who is not in any way directly threatened by putin and would - i guess - prefer letting the russians handle global crisis if they want to, as long as US streets and bridges are financed to a higher level.

if i am getting this right....like i said....i can understand your view...i am just, especially as a center-european progressive threatened on a daily basis by moscow ....not at all able to agree in any meaningful way.
Logged
○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,615


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2017, 12:29:21 AM »

Obviously the Putin regime is not a good regime, but there are worse regimes, such as Saudi Arabia, and the United States has more important issues to worry about.

ah....well, i can somehow understand and respect that as the view of an US inhabitant, who is not in any way directly threatened by putin and would - i guess - prefer letting the russians handle global crisis if they want to, as long as US streets and bridges are financed to a higher level.

if i am getting this right....like i said....i can understand your view...i am just, especially as a center-european progressive threatened on a daily basis by moscow ....not at all able to agree in any meaningful way.

The Democratic party is talking about Russia and nothing else. And I don't see why you're so worried, you're a couple of NATO members away from Russia.
Logged
ApatheticAustrian
ApathicAustrian
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,603
Austria


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2017, 12:40:56 AM »
« Edited: March 14, 2017, 12:43:18 AM by ApatheticAustrian »

The Democratic party is talking about Russia and nothing else. And I don't see why you're so worried, you're a couple of NATO members away from Russia.

Imagine, the State of Texas would become even more cartoonish right-wing, kind of a brain-child of Ted Cruz, Steve King and Paul Ryan, then secede from the union...and starting to influence the worldview of other US states, supporting other secession parties, funding roll-back-strategies against progressive goals and equality......and while i think of it, the Confederary, with all its military power, would be an even better example.

Those people are spreading their military each day, undermining each state who dares to follow the concept of liberal democracy, undermining our elections, undermining our flow of information, undermining our way of life. The worst ways of the US intelligence and military activities during the COLD WAR...this time controlled from Moscow.

I was against the US imperialism in the past and even that one was less unhinged than the upcoming russian empire, trying to swallow its neighbouring countries....

Like i said, i understand if you as an US citizen don't care as much, but an European progressive wouldn't have that choice.
Logged
○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,615


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2017, 12:45:09 AM »

The Democratic party is talking about Russia and nothing else. And I don't see why you're so worried, you're a couple of NATO members away from Russia.

Imagine, the State of Texas would become even more cartoonish right-wing, kind of a brain-child of Ted Cruz, Steve King and Paul Ryan, then secede from the union...and starting to influence the worldview of other US states, supporting other secession parties, funding roll-back-strategies against progressive goals and equality......and while i think of it, the Confederary, with all its military power, would be an even better example.

Those people are spreading their military each day, undermining each states who dares to follow the concept of liberal democracy, undermining our elections, undermining our flow of information, undermining our way of life. The worst ways of the US intelligence and military activities during the COLD WAR...this time controlled from Moscow.

I was against the US imperialism in the past and even that one was less unhinged than the upcoming russian empire, trying to swallow its neighbouring countries....

Like i said, i understand if you as an US citizen don't care as much, but an European progressive wouldn't have that choice.

The idea that they are a bigger threat than the Soviet Union during the cold war is laughable. And anyways, it's China that is in danger of eclipsing us, not Russia.

And the idea that the US never conquered to enlarge itself is ridiculous. Ever heard of the Mexican American war or the Overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii? Not to mention all the land stolen from the Native Americans.
Logged
ApatheticAustrian
ApathicAustrian
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,603
Austria


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2017, 01:00:01 AM »
« Edited: March 14, 2017, 01:10:29 AM by ApatheticAustrian »

The idea that they are a bigger threat than the Soviet Union during the cold war is laughable. And anyways, it's China that is in danger of eclipsing us, not Russia.

And the idea that the US never conquered to enlarge itself is ridiculous. Ever heard of the Mexican American war or the Overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii? Not to mention all the land stolen from the Native Americans.

i have not  said anything about the SU but i guess, during the CW everybody knew that a nuclear "accident" could happen all the time...and everybody was...serious. .today there is far more ....inscecurity on a non-nuclear-level.

Ofc if you are looking for a global superpower, which eats the lunch of the US, this would be China, but China is satisfied with being a regional military power and wishes to cooperate with the US....while Moscow is undermining US allies on a daily basis.

and sure, if we are going back far enough in the history, we are ofc finding examples for imperialism....that wasn't my point, i have just compared the "real" results of the Truman doctrin with the realities of 2017.

My final paragraph for now: I totally agree with your detest for Saudi-Arabia, this guilty country has....cause of fear of self-destruction....fed an ideological cancer for years, hoping it wouldn't be eaten itself and unleashed a perversion of islamic teaching into the world, which surely led to many many deaths. Culturally, especially here in Europe, we are struggling with the consequences each day.......but while this is a long-term challenge for all of us, for which SA is finally taking the blame and promises to change its ways.....the struggle with Russia is a short-term obstacle, undermining our laws, our freedom, our future on a whole different level. Not cause Russia isn't a failing state itself.....just cause, other than even SA, Russia really spends the money it has on weakening us, instead of helping its own citizens.

Anyway, i don't want to annoy you at that late hour. Wink That should be enough.
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2017, 01:38:36 AM »

In 1956, some wanted the US to be involved militarily in Egypt to reduce Russian influence, but a Republican President said no.

Do you know why foreign powers got involved in Egypt back then?
Logged
○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,615


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2017, 02:15:06 AM »

The idea that they are a bigger threat than the Soviet Union during the cold war is laughable. And anyways, it's China that is in danger of eclipsing us, not Russia.

And the idea that the US never conquered to enlarge itself is ridiculous. Ever heard of the Mexican American war or the Overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii? Not to mention all the land stolen from the Native Americans.

i have not  said anything about the SU but i guess, during the CW everybody knew that a nuclear "accident" could happen all the time...and everybody was...serious. .today there is far more ....inscecurity on a non-nuclear-level.

Ofc if you are looking for a global superpower, which eats the lunch of the US, this would be China, but China is satisfied with being a regional military power and wishes to cooperate with the US....while Moscow is undermining US allies on a daily basis.

and sure, if we are going back far enough in the history, we are ofc finding examples for imperialism....that wasn't my point, i have just compared the "real" results of the Truman doctrin with the realities of 2017.

My final paragraph for now: I totally agree with your detest for Saudi-Arabia, this guilty country has....cause of fear of self-destruction....fed an ideological cancer for years, hoping it wouldn't be eaten itself and unleashed a perversion of islamic teaching into the world, which surely led to many many deaths. Culturally, especially here in Europe, we are struggling with the consequences each day.......but while this is a long-term challenge for all of us, for which SA is finally taking the blame and promises to change its ways.....the struggle with Russia is a short-term obstacle, undermining our laws, our freedom, our future on a whole different level. Not cause Russia isn't a failing state itself.....just cause, other than even SA, Russia really spends the money it has on weakening us, instead of helping its own citizens.

Anyway, i don't want to annoy you at that late hour. Wink That should be enough.

China isn't our ally. They devalue their currency so that they get lots of imports and not many exports. They have territory disputes with several of their neighbors, even North Korea. They have a worse freedom score than Russia, and they do a lot to prop up the crazy joke that is North Korea. The one thing going for China is that they usually decide by consensus of 7, so aren't quite prone to do the most insane things.

Saudi Arabia and Qatar have done much to export Wahhabi jihadism to Al Qaeda and ISIS, and the results aren't pretty. Did you know that non Muslims aren't allowed in Mecca? Pretty crazy rule there.
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2017, 04:19:49 AM »

Military presence in Syria had already took a heavy toll on Russia's economy. I doubt thet could afford anything more than limited deployment of special forces.
Logged
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,714
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2017, 12:14:13 AM »
« Edited: March 15, 2017, 04:46:01 AM by Zadig »

Military presence in Syria had already took a heavy toll on Russia's economy. I doubt thet could afford anything more than limited deployment of special forces.

Great argument for why the CIA (who clearly don't give a f[inks] about Trump and will operate entirely independently of him) need to step it up in these countries as well. Start funding local groups to hit the Russian special forces and any advisors or diplomats they send HARD. Make them bleed. Make it be like Afghanistan all over again.

And I'll preempt anybody who says that doing that in Afghanistan led to al Qaeda or the Taliban: No it didn't, do your research. The Taliban did not exist at any point during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, nor did any group that could accurately be described as a predecessor of them get US backing (outside of perhaps indirectly, as the US gave Pakistan tons of military aid). Most of the groups the US backed went on to become the Northern Alliance. And al Qaeda was a small, mostly irrelevant group at the time not even on the US's radar, whether to support or oppose, and Osama bin Laden played virtually no role in Afghanistan while the Soviet Union existed.

Honestly if you wanted to accuse the US of supporting al Qaeda, you'd have a better case in the former Yugoslavia than in Afghanistan.
Logged
Technocracy Timmy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,641
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2017, 12:19:19 AM »

Military presence in Syria had already took a heavy toll on Russia's economy. I doubt thet could afford anything more than limited deployment of special forces.

Great argument for why the CIA (who clearly don't give a f[inks] about Trump and will operate entirely independently of him) need to step it up in these countries as well. Start funding local groups to hit the Russian special forces and any advisors or diplomats they send HARD. Make them bleed. Make it be like Afghanistan all over again.

And I'll preempt any idiot who says that doing that in Afghanistan led to al Qaeda or the Taliban: No it didn't, do your research. The Taliban did not exist at any point during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, nor did any group that could accurately be described as a predecessor of them get US backing (outside of perhaps indirectly, as the US gave Pakistan tons of military aid). Most of the groups the US backed went on to become the Northern Alliance. And al Qaeda was a small, mostly irrelevant group at the time not even on the US's radar, whether to support or oppose, and Osama bin Laden played virtually no role in Afghanistan while the Soviet Union existed.

Honestly if you wanted to accuse the US of supporting al Qaeda, you'd have a better case in the former Yugoslavia than in Afghanistan.

I agree with this. Good, solid insight.
Logged
ApatheticAustrian
ApathicAustrian
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,603
Austria


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2017, 12:29:54 AM »

even while the law of unintended consequences and non-supervised funds is always on the point and the US of course "helped" creating a  power vacuum in afghanistan through smashing the russians, the general causality line drawn between the US actions over there and the rise of the Taliban really is overrated and veils the real complexity of the issue.

imho afg-pak is the worst hellhole of the whole world. ofc there are even worse places...somalia....but they are not nearly as dangerous for other people and it's easier ti defeat pirates than an ideology which kills school children, hospitalized persons and other simple bucreaucrats for fun.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.051 seconds with 13 queries.