538: Liberals Would Be Foolish To Primary Joe Manchin
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  538: Liberals Would Be Foolish To Primary Joe Manchin
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Poll
Question: Should Manchin be primaried, even if it runs a huge risk of losing the seat to a Republican and thus weakening prospects for gaining back Senate control in 2020 or 2022?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 116

Author Topic: 538: Liberals Would Be Foolish To Primary Joe Manchin  (Read 16729 times)
ProgressiveCanadian
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« Reply #75 on: March 28, 2017, 06:51:16 PM »

BUMP! Looks like Manchin isn't rulling out voting for Gorsuch. Still want this guy in your party?
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President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
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« Reply #76 on: March 28, 2017, 06:53:17 PM »

BUMP! Looks like Manchin isn't rulling out voting for Gorsuch. Still want this guy in your party?
I sure hope they do.
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ProgressiveCanadian
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« Reply #77 on: March 28, 2017, 06:55:16 PM »

BUMP! Looks like Manchin isn't rulling out voting for Gorsuch. Still want this guy in your party?
I sure hope they do.
They wont.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
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« Reply #78 on: March 28, 2017, 06:59:17 PM »

BUMP! Looks like Manchin isn't rulling out voting for Gorsuch. Still want this guy in your party?
I sure hope they do.
They wont.
Well I for one am glad Atlas forum does not have the same demographics as the WV Dem primary. Tongue
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jfern
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« Reply #79 on: March 28, 2017, 06:59:55 PM »

BUMP! Looks like Manchin isn't rulling out voting for Gorsuch. Still want this guy in your party?

1.) His state voted for Trump by 40+ points.
2.) His vote won't be the deciding one anyway.
3.) Go primary him and see what happens.

Who cares? The only 2 Democrats to get primaried for decades didn't cost any seats. In the case of Lieberman, he won anyways as an independent, with the Republican getting only 10%, and in the case of Specter he never was elected as a Democrat, and Sestak didn't do any worse than he would have. That's it, the only 2 Democratic Senators to be primaried for a long time, both of whom were elected as non Democrats either before or after anyways.
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publicunofficial
angryGreatness
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« Reply #80 on: March 28, 2017, 07:04:59 PM »

Time would be better spend primarying Feinstein, Carper, or Menendez. Maybe Cantwell too just to put a flame under her ass.
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ProgressiveCanadian
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« Reply #81 on: March 28, 2017, 07:25:31 PM »

BUMP! Looks like Manchin isn't rulling out voting for Gorsuch. Still want this guy in your party?
I sure hope they do.
They wont.
Well I for one am glad Atlas forum does not have the same demographics as the WV Dem primary. Tongue

WV Democrats voted for Bernie. Either way Manchin will lose, if he wins the primary they will vote Republican because it would be a choice of a Republican-lite and a Republican. Just look at 2014 to see how this worked in Kentucky.
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heatcharger
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« Reply #82 on: March 28, 2017, 08:01:57 PM »


Irrelevant.

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West Virginia also had a choice of Republican and Republican-lite in their gubernatorial election in 2016, and they chose the latter by a pretty decent margin.
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ProgressiveCanadian
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« Reply #83 on: March 28, 2017, 08:33:12 PM »


Irrelevant.

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West Virginia also had a choice of Republican and Republican-lite in their gubernatorial election in 2016, and they chose the latter by a pretty decent margin.

Sounds like your proud to have a corporatist like Joe Manchin in office. Sadly for you he will not be in their for much longer.
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heatcharger
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« Reply #84 on: March 28, 2017, 09:12:09 PM »

Sounds like your proud to have a corporatist like Joe Manchin in office. Sadly for you he will not be in their for much longer.

Neat diversion tactic. Why did a literal ex-Republican Jim Justice win the governor's race in 2016, and why doesn't that mean Manchin can win again?

And no, I do not like Joe Manchin, but I'd rather be a majority party than the alternative.
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Warren 4 Secretary of Everything
Clinton1996
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« Reply #85 on: March 28, 2017, 09:12:22 PM »


Irrelevant.

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West Virginia also had a choice of Republican and Republican-lite in their gubernatorial election in 2016, and they chose the latter by a pretty decent margin.

Sounds like your proud to have a corporatist like Joe Manchin in office. Sadly for you he will not be in their for much longer.

Your way of thinking f-cked over the Republican Party and will do the same thing to the Democrats. Ha being 50+ votes is more important than ideological purity. Stop whining and targeting other progressives.
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jfern
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« Reply #86 on: March 28, 2017, 09:15:24 PM »


Irrelevant.

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West Virginia also had a choice of Republican and Republican-lite in their gubernatorial election in 2016, and they chose the latter by a pretty decent margin.

Sounds like your proud to have a corporatist like Joe Manchin in office. Sadly for you he will not be in their for much longer.

Your way of thinking f-cked over the Republican Party and will do the same thing to the Democrats. Ha being 50+ votes is more important than ideological purity. Stop whining and targeting other progressives.

The Democratic party f-cked itself quite well without us. I think Democrats currently control the fewest state governments since the party was founded.
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SWE
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« Reply #87 on: March 28, 2017, 09:21:24 PM »


Irrelevant.

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West Virginia also had a choice of Republican and Republican-lite in their gubernatorial election in 2016, and they chose the latter by a pretty decent margin.

Sounds like your proud to have a corporatist like Joe Manchin in office. Sadly for you he will not be in their for much longer.

Your way of thinking f-cked over the Republican Party and will do the same thing to the Democrats. Ha being 50+ votes is more important than ideological purity. Stop whining and targeting other progressives.
"f-cked over" is an interesting way to describe a party that has virtually unchecked control over both the federal, and vast majority of state, governments.
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ProgressiveCanadian
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« Reply #88 on: March 28, 2017, 09:34:09 PM »


Irrelevant.

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West Virginia also had a choice of Republican and Republican-lite in their gubernatorial election in 2016, and they chose the latter by a pretty decent margin.

Sounds like your proud to have a corporatist like Joe Manchin in office. Sadly for you he will not be in their for much longer.

Your way of thinking f-cked over the Republican Party and will do the same thing to the Democrats. Ha being 50+ votes is more important than ideological purity. Stop whining and targeting other progressives.
"f-cked over" is an interesting way to describe a party that has virtually unchecked control over both the federal, and vast majority of state, governments.

This. Also Jim Justice is also a another DINO who is obviously better than his opponent but that isn't saying much. Probably won due to his coal miners support with the same lies Trump used that coal jobs will come back, which they won't.

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Intell
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« Reply #89 on: March 29, 2017, 07:12:22 PM »

I love how the republicans won 2010, with that tactic, and have control of the house, senate, presidency, state legislatures, while having a tea party. Worked the worst!
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #90 on: March 30, 2017, 10:52:02 AM »

BUMP! Looks like Manchin isn't rulling out voting for Gorsuch. Still want this guy in your party?
I sure hope they do.
They wont.
Well I for one am glad Atlas forum does not have the same demographics as the WV Dem primary. Tongue

WV Democrats voted for Bernie.

They didn't vote for Bernie because they were TRUE PROGRESSIVES: they voted for Bernie because of the opposite. The alternative was "that coal-hating, power-hungry bitch". Turns out you can learn a lot by looking at what the actual voters of WV said in their Democratic primary:


40% of Bernie voters in the primary said explicitly that they were voting for Trump in November, ffs.
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ProgressiveCanadian
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« Reply #91 on: March 30, 2017, 02:50:17 PM »

Yes let's disregard the recent Town Hall in WV with Bernie where he got Trump supporters to agree with him. Nothing Hillary could have even gotten close to do.
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Fusionmunster
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« Reply #92 on: March 30, 2017, 10:10:36 PM »

Yes let's disregard the recent Town Hall in WV with Bernie where he got Trump supporters to agree with him. Nothing Hillary could have even gotten close to do.

Im not sure what your aruging. A town hall doesnt negate the fact that alot of WV dems vote Republican and only voted in the dem primary because its semi closed. Bernie won because he wasn't Hillary, not because WV dems love socialism or progressive causes. 
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Virginiá
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« Reply #93 on: April 04, 2017, 12:34:47 PM »

Only somewhat related, but I didn't want to make a new thread for this:

https://newrepublic.com/article/141821/democrats-wont-pay-opposing-neil-gorsuch
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As far as those Trump state Senators go, I still think the biggest problems they would have had would have been from primary challenges should they vote for Gorsuch, of which a few have chosen to do (including Manchin obviously). I suppose it is one thing if Manchin legitimately wanted to vote for Gorsuch, but to think that it would be a big issue for him to vote No seems misguided. Voters don't pay much attention to the Supreme Court, and while many recognize the importance of it, it doesn't seem to play out that way in their heads.

Not that there isn't a case to be made that it might hurt him, but the way things are going, 2018 might be toxic enough that Manchin would have cover to avoid pander votes like this.
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Shadows
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« Reply #94 on: April 04, 2017, 03:02:29 PM »

BUMP! Looks like Manchin isn't rulling out voting for Gorsuch. Still want this guy in your party?
I sure hope they do.
They wont.
Well I for one am glad Atlas forum does not have the same demographics as the WV Dem primary. Tongue

WV Democrats voted for Bernie.

They didn't vote for Bernie because they were TRUE PROGRESSIVES: they voted for Bernie because of the opposite. The alternative was "that coal-hating, power-hungry bitch". Turns out you can learn a lot by looking at what the actual voters of WV said in their Democratic primary:


40% of Bernie voters in the primary said explicitly that they were voting for Trump in November, ffs.

That doesn't say a lot. IN many states, where people thought Dems should continue Obama's policies, Bernie got good votes too. In Oklahoma, the people who said it should be more liberal & more conservatives both went big for Bernie while people in the middle stayed.

40% would anyways go for Trump in WV. Trump got 9% of the total Dem vote. That number will have to be high among Bernie Sanders supporters (16% odd i read somewhere). There were many Bernie/Trump voters in many states.

Not everyone voted to stop Clinton, many did. Many did because they supported it. You continue to take straw examples & paint a whole picture which isn't fair. Issues are mostly complex & are influenced by a myriad of factors & it rarely is 1 thing only !
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #95 on: April 04, 2017, 03:54:40 PM »

That doesn't say a lot. IN many states, where people thought Dems should continue Obama's policies, Bernie got good votes too. In Oklahoma, the people who said it should be more liberal & more conservatives both went big for Bernie while people in the middle stayed.

40% would anyways go for Trump in WV. Trump got 9% of the total Dem vote. That number will have to be high among Bernie Sanders supporters (16% odd i read somewhere). There were many Bernie/Trump voters in many states.

Not everyone voted to stop Clinton, many did. Many did because they supported it. You continue to take straw examples & paint a whole picture which isn't fair. Issues are mostly complex & are influenced by a myriad of factors & it rarely is 1 thing only !

Y'all just don't get it.

Tons 👏 of Bernie voters 👏 in WV 👏 protest 👏 voted 👏 for him.

I'm not painting any other picture than what is fair, and I'm certainly not using "isolated examples: 40 percent of the Democratic primary electorate always planned on voting for Trump. Of the remaining sixty percent or so, 35 percent legitimately supported Sanders and 25 percent legitimately supported Clinton. The overall group of Trump supporters was the plurality among those three groups, and 25% of all WV Democratic primary voters were Trump supporters who voted Bernie despite never supporting him.

They didn't vote for him because they liked him or wanted to see him as President: they voted for him because he wasn't Hillary Clinton - just like a huge portion of the love for Clinton there in the 2008 primary was fueled by her not being Blacky McBlackface.

They are conservatives who are registered Democrats because the Democratic Party has and still does rule WV local politics with an iron fist: they have closed primaries and if you want any say whatsoever over who ultimately runs your local and state politics, you register as a Democrat. This stuff isn't hard: a majority of registered voters in WV are registered Democrats but WV hasn't given a majority of its votes to a Democrat since 1996; in the past four elections, it hasn't even been in the single-digits.

It's not an outlier, it's not an exception: the difference between the picture you and others are trying to paint versus what is the reality is the difference between a solidly-progressive state and a heavily-conservative one; the difference between a legitimate Sanders rout (in both primary and general) and a victory where the primary's margin was fueled solely by protest voting.
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Technocracy Timmy
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« Reply #96 on: April 04, 2017, 05:07:41 PM »

This guy should be primaried for supporting most of Trumps picks and for his plan to vote to confirm Gorsuch, a seat that was stolen from Obama and Garland.

At least Republicans understand the advantage of falling in line and actually commit to it.
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I’m not Stu
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« Reply #97 on: April 08, 2017, 11:38:54 PM »

Primarying him with a progressive would obviously be nonsensical, and I wouldn't support it anyways. But primarying him with someone with views similar to say, Nelson, would be a good move and I don't think it would totally ruin everything for Ds, and I would support it.
Even a candidate similar to Nelson would still lose to the GOP in WV. If any Democrat has a chance to defeat Moore-Capito in 2020, it's Tomblin or Justice.
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jfern
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« Reply #98 on: April 08, 2017, 11:42:38 PM »

Primarying him with a progressive would obviously be nonsensical, and I wouldn't support it anyways. But primarying him with someone with views similar to say, Nelson, would be a good move and I don't think it would totally ruin everything for Ds, and I would support it.
Even a candidate similar to Nelson would still lose to the GOP in WV. If any Democrat has a chance to defeat Moore-Capito in 2020, it's Tomblin or Justice.

Jay Rockefeller was definitely to Bill Nelson's left.
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ERM64man
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« Reply #99 on: April 08, 2017, 11:45:33 PM »

Primarying him with a progressive would obviously be nonsensical, and I wouldn't support it anyways. But primarying him with someone with views similar to say, Nelson, would be a good move and I don't think it would totally ruin everything for Ds, and I would support it.
Even a candidate similar to Nelson would still lose to the GOP in WV. If any Democrat has a chance to defeat Moore-Capito in 2020, it's Tomblin or Justice.

Jay Rockefeller was definitely to Bill Nelson's left.
WV is far more Republican than it was when Rockefeller was in office. That kind of candidate couldn't win today.
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