HOUSE BILL: Naturalization Act (Tabled)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor: OneJ_
House Designation HB 1093

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The sponsor has 24 hours to begin advocating for this bill, lest it be deported.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I support requiring English, as well as preserving the history and gov't requirement.

As a former house member I do have something to say regarding this legislation. I support it with the proviso that section 2 clause 4 be changed to require English. As English is the lingua franca of Atlasia it would benefit immigrants to learn the language.

Forcing people to learn a language isn't freedom.

No one is forcing them to become citizens. It is not unreasonable to require citizens to speak the language that most business is conducted in, lest they be essentially turned into second class citizens.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I am afraid I agree with Simossad.


It is not safe for them either. They will be stuck unable to obtain better pay, subject to abuse by employers, tenants and criminals. They won't be able to reach out to the authorities effectively or will be told lies about the authorities to keep them from reaching out to get help.

We are talking about the naturalization process here. If we want all citizens to succeed and be able to have an equal shot at achieving success, understanding the basics of the language and even of the system that will protect them and their rights, is critical.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

That's the thing. I feel that immigrants should be able to learn English at their own pace and not necessarily rush (especially if they've lived in America for such a brief time). On top of this, they have to settle somewhere, take care of children, find work, learn the way of living, etc. That's a lot!

Maybe taking a English-learning (foundations) course for a minimum # of weeks, but that's basically it.

Rushed? This person has to be a green card holder a for a year before they can even apply, according to the underlying text?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I object to the amendment.

I am afraid I agree with Simossad.


It is not safe for them either. They will be stuck unable to obtain better pay, subject to abuse by employers, tenants and criminals. They won't be able to reach out to the authorities effectively or will be told lies about the authorities to keep them from reaching out to get help.

We are talking about the naturalization process here. If we want all citizens to succeed and be able to have an equal shot at achieving success, understanding the basics of the language and even of the system that will protect them and their rights, is critical.

Immigrants who want to succeed in this nation will do so anyway, we don't need government mandates on everything because it would help someone. For once, can we be honest with ourselves and say that people can protect their own interests, and don't need big brother government to hold their hands in every decision? Provide an English course, but make it optional.

I disagree. This an "optional" choice to become a citizen. No one is being forced to become a citizen by this bill. It is perfectly reasonable for the gov't to enforce laws that ensure a certain amount of community cohesion by stipulating regulations for the naturalization process. Requiring a uniform language and knowledge of the system is not just about protecting their interest, but also ours. It is of mutual benefit to to have an integrated society.

People want to speak whatever language they want, fine. But if you want to become a citizen here, there are rules must be followed in order to do so. I have not, nor have I ever believed in the complete, unregulated freedom of travel between countries and I certainly don't believe that we should bestow citizenship on people who will be disconnected from society. Anyone regardless of origin, should be able to become a citizen, but only if they follow the rules. 

The alternative will be the alienation of large pockets of society, which will become hot beds of terrorism and separatism.

We are united by our values and unless we can communicate with one another and know those values, the unity they bring is hollow.

I cannot support this bill without an English mandate.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Objection filed by Enduro. A vote is now open on the above amendment, Representatives, please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

AYE!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Vote on Amendment H5:14 by OneJ_

Aye (3): Heisenberg, NC Yankee and Potus
Nay (4): 1184AZ, Enduro, Peebs, OneJ_
Abstain (2): Simossad and Ted


The amendment has failed to pass.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I could support the bill in its current (amended) form.  If there were a language requirement to this bill, I have a feeling that it would end up in court pretty quickly.

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There is no other portion of the Constitution that would preclude us setting a language requirement for people to become citizens. We couldn't establish a religious test for instance, but that is entirely different.

It is not a requirement that they use a language, it would merely be a requirement that they know it. And there is good reason for that to be a requirement. Having a group of people who cannot speak English is dangerous for them and would lead to abuse by employers, landlords, and merchants. Enduro at least stated his motivation was a desire to remove Gov't mandates, I can understand that. However, unless the rest of you have suddenly become Libertarians, I fail to see the justification for intentionally leaving new citizens defenseless against corrupt business people, who will take advantage of their inability to speak English.

I don't get why suddenly there is some great outrage at the prospect of making sure that new citizens have the same equal footing to succeed as everyone else. Comprehensive immigration bills in the past required the undocumented to learn English before being given permanent legal status.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Also considering how Potus voted on the last amendment, I highly doubt this is what he had in mind when he recommended it be "rewritten".

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Representatives have 24 hours to object.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Okay, while it would seem clear that enduro was objecting to OneJ's latest amendment, it was within the last three hours of the objection period of H5:21. Therefore just to be safe, am I correct in assuming the objection is aimed at the latest amendment and not the previous one? 

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Okay, H5:21 is adopted. Subsequent amendment, which preserves said changes will be updated.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Objection Filed by Enduro. A Vote is now open on the above amendment, Representatives, please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

AYE


Though it is hardly a preferred situation.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What happened to Labor? OneJ always votes!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Well, at least we got quorum now.


5 hrs before time expires. Terrible! Sad! Its Horrible!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Nay.

Take that Yankee. lol

You make that sound like I expected anything different.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Vote on Amendment H5:23 by OneJ_ 

Aye (2): NC Yankee and Potus
Nay (6): Enduro, Heisenberg, OneJ_, Peebs, Simossad and Ted
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (1): Drew

With time having expired, the amendment is not adopted.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I guess I'll advocate for the right for immigrants to not be forced to take the test in English.

Then why offer both amendments?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Sorry for the amount of time this bill has been up as I was busy with other things.

Amendment offered:

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Wait what is being changed here?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

But you are reversing a previous successful amendment H5:21.

Here is the current text:

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[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

OneJ? 


I need clarification on the amendment situation before proceeding. Do you wish to proceed with the amendment as written, which reverses portions of a previous one, or is something else going on?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

OneJ? 


I need clarification on the amendment situation before proceeding. Do you wish to proceed with the amendment as written, which reverses portions of a previous one, or is something else going on?

Oh yes. I just assumed that you knew I wanted to move forward with this.

I just kind of assumed you lost track of what amendments you had offered that past, considering how many of them you voted against.

Okay, I will process it as is, but I don't think restoring the "suggestion style phrasing" ("community service would be nice"...) that Potus demanded to be removed, is going to improve the bill.