Governor NeverAgain's Office (NEW OFFICE)

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

A fantastic choice - congratulations, SG!

[NeverAgain]

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I feel it is silly, and not needed, but if we genuinely want to add flavor to the Region, I am fine with it.

[NeverAgain]

My decision and explanation on the Southern Heritage Act will be explained here tomorrow afternoon.

(We've had IB exams all this week and I was working last weekend, my sincere apologies folks)

[NeverAgain]

  This is a bill (of which it's meaning and ideals) I have grappled with, and be sure to understand I do not take this decision lightly.

   First off, I want to discuss the history underlying my decision, and then move on to what this bill will do. But, first first, for those who are seeing this bill for the first time, this bill authorizes and mandates that our regional government shall fly the Flag of the Confederacy, the flag from March 4, 1861 which was changed to the one shown more prominently at the end of the war after May 1, 1863, dubbed: "The Stainless Banner or The Bloodstained Banner".

   The Civil War, as is commonly termed today, was effectively started by the secession of South Carolina on December 20th, 1860, and you are more than welcome to read their declaration here. After that, and the firing on the South Carolinian military base, Fort Sumter, ignited the secession of many other Southern States, and all are welcome and encouraged to hear their declarations, here.

   I will note that if you do read these declarations, you will see a sparkling clear rationale for these governments' decisions - the issue of, a word none other can describe, slavery.

   Now, getting back to the flag. There are two historical arguments that I have seen, and addressed,
 but they are part of the rationale for this bill. The first being that whereas the Southern States fought on the issue of states' rights, and the perception of an overbearing government, and not slavery, this flag is to represent a fight of state's rights and not of bigotry and hate.

   To respond to this, I will go back to the declarations of the states as shown above. I see and entirely agree that Confederate states did claim the right to secede as a justification, but no state claimed to be seceding for that right. In fact, many Confederates opposed states’ rights — that is, the right of Northern states not to support slavery, and to abolish it.

   On Dec. 24, 1860, delegates at South Carolina’s secession convention adopted a “Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union.” It noted “an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery” and protested that Northern states had failed to “fulfill their constitutional obligations” by interfering with the return of fugitive slaves to bondage. Slavery, and states’ rights only as it relates to slavery, birthed the Civil War.

   South Carolina was further upset that New York no longer allowed “slavery transit.” In the past, if Charleston gentry wanted to spend August in the Hamptons, they could bring their cook along. No longer — and South Carolina’s delegates were outraged. In addition, they objected that New England states let black men vote and tolerated abolitionist societies. According to South Carolina, states should not have the right to let their citizens assemble and speak freely when what they said threatened slavery. Now, this ideal, is not representative of all Southern States, but it does underscore the paradox that is assumed with stating that the Confederacy was based around the basics of liberty. But a state without speech, has no liberty.

   But again, we saw other seceding states echoing South Carolina. “Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery — the greatest material interest of the world,” proclaimed Mississippi in its own secession declaration, passed Jan. 9, 1861. “Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of the commerce of the earth. . . . A blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization.”

   The South’s opposition to states’ rights prior to the lead-up to the Civil War is not surprising. Until the Civil War, Southern presidents and lawmakers had dominated the federal government. The people in power in (Nyman) D.C. would always oppose states’ rights. Doing so preserves their own and this ideal that they seceded on.

   Now, to a different argument, and one that is so crucial to the basis around this bill and the ideal of the modern preservation of the Confederacy. It being: that the vast majority of white Southerners didn’t own slaves, so they wouldn’t secede for slavery, but rather for different reasons. Therefore the flag only represents their lives lost, in that their secession was obviously for non-slavery reasons.

   Indeed, most white Southern families had no slaves. Less than half of white Mississippi households owned one or more slaves, for example, and that proportion was smaller still in whiter states such as Virginia and Tennessee. It is also true that, in areas with few slaves, most white Southerners did not support secession. West Virginia broke away from Virginia to stay with the Union (and became a state of under the Union flag in 1863), and Confederate troops had to occupy parts of eastern Tennessee and northern Alabama to hold them in line.

   However, two ideological factors caused most Southern whites, including those who were not slave-owners, to defend slavery. First, Americans are wondrous optimists, looking to the upper class and expecting to join it someday. In 1860, many subsistence farmers aspired to become large slave-owners. So poor white non-slave-owning Southerners supported slavery then, just as many low-income people today, support the massive tax cutting for the wealthy.

   Second and more important, belief in white supremacy provided a rationale for slavery. As the French political theorist Montesquieu observed wryly in 1748: “It is impossible for us to suppose these creatures [enslaved Africans] to be men; because allowing them to be men, a suspicion would follow that we ourselves are not Christians.” Given this belief, most white Southerners — and many Northerners, too — could not envision life in black-majority states such as South Carolina and Mississippi unless blacks were in chains. Georgia Supreme Court Justice Henry Benning, trying to persuade the Virginia Legislature to leave the Union, predicted race war if slavery was not protected. “The consequence will be that our men will be all exterminated or expelled to wander as vagabonds over a hostile earth, and as for our women, their fate will be too horrible to contemplate even in fancy.” Thus, secession would maintain not only slavery but the prevailing ideology of white supremacy as well.

   So, here is where we stand, this bill before my desk is one that will raise a flag that is representative of the theft and decimation of millions of African-Americans' basic human rights and dignity based solely on the color of their skin. My friends, I do recognize the sacrifice given by hundreds of thousands of men and women, grey or blue, black or white, in this fight. But with this flag, we do not honor their sacrifice, or our great region with all it's people. We will be honoring the hate and bigotry that forced these individuals to give their lives rather than honoring their sacrifice.

   And so, I, on this night, do veto this piece of legislation. I have no doubts that this decision will be attempted to be overturned by our legislature, but I ask these legislators to remember that the cause that these men and women died for was not a flag. Their deaths were not for the same reason, nor the same fight. They were all unique, and I ask that we attempt to remember them, each and everyone, by protecting, preserving, and advancing our history, beyond the abhorrence of those who governed here before us. I encourage these men and wom(an) of our legislature to change this bill to protect the cemeteries of all those fallen, build and renew the historical culture of our region through new museums, and to birth a new generation of the South.

   While I am saddened that this flag may still rise in contrast to the values of millions of our citizens, it must be our job to rise against the hate and bigotry that this flag stands for, until we can all be free of it. I promise you, that whether this bill fails or succeeds against this veto, I will fight for that.

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VETO

[JustinTimeCuber]

Thank you, Governor, for making the correct decision here.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Thank you, governor, for standing against revisionist history and the forces of reaction.

[diptheriadan]

The bill only wants the flag to be flown on Confederate Memorial Day. I don't see how flying a flag for the purposes of honoring dead Confederate soldiers on a day for honoring dead Confederate soldiers is defending hate and bigotry.

[Wisconsin+17]

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First off. We have a bill here that Governor Neveragain said that he would support if his amendment were taken up. Does this strike you as a particularly principled opposition to this bill? No. Nev will tell you that it's all about righting historical wrongs. Why then would he support an amended bill if it were about righting wrongs? Obviously it has nothing to do with what has happened in the past and has everything to do with Nev not getting what he wants.

Nev is pissed for the same reason he's always been angry. That someone had the temerity to say no. We've seen this behavior before. We saw it in Ego in Guardian of the Galaxy II. When his son that he supposedly loved more than anything else did not go along with his plan, Ego instantly tried to kill him. Nev is the exact same way here. It doesn't fit on the planet of Nev, so he's decided he will veto it. Nothing more nor less.

Nev has forgotten that this bill has the bipartisan support of 4 delegates, myself, fhtagn, Southern Gothic and Celtic empire. We amended the bill and hammered out an acceptable compromise that would represent the wishes of the delegates as a whole.

I have on hand, a long PM from Nev where he expresses his concern with the lack of activity in the delegates. Funny that. It's clear now that Nev wasn't actually concerned about lack of activity. In short Nev was angry that his plan for the delegates was being thwarted. Why, if Nev sincerely believed in activity is he vetoing this bill? Isn't he concerned about obstruction. Obviously not.

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Actually, nobody made this argument. The argument that was actually made is that there is one flag that represents the southern united states - the Stars and Bars. Ergo, we should be able to fly that flag to represent the South as a whole.

Why not argue against the arguments already set forth, Nev?

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LOL. Only three percent of Southerners owned slaves. Clearly the majority of Southerners fought the war for other reasons, which, ironically, Nev avoids addressing.

Why would someone who didn't own a slave fight in the Civil War? The reason is as obvious as Nev will not tell you. These men had families, homes and their livelihoods. They protected their families and homes and livelihoods in the South just as they did in the North. Would they have preferred no war at all? Yes. But they did not have that option. Once the North invaded the South, then we see that these young men (Nev forgets that most who fought were under 30), felt they had no other option than to fight.

Should the Chamber of Delegates honor their sacrifice? Absolutely. Nev would tell you that the desire of these young men to better their station is an abhorrent desire. Why? Should we not be encouraging our citizens to work hard and improve their lives and the lives of their families?

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Is Never again unaware that there were black slaveowners in the South? If the ideology were about white supremacy, then how does he explain that? Surely the South would have barred blacks from owning slaves. They did not.

Ergo, Nev's argument does not hold water.

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Yet, Nev is willing to veto the voice of a woman and a minority. How does he justify that? If it were so that Never again did in fact represent women and minorities, why is he suppressing their vote.

It's clear to me that Nev thinks that he speaks for people when he does not. Nev should probably check his privilege before insisting that his paternalism speaks for everyone.

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Then what did they die for Nev? You smear their sacrifice and piss on their graves and then attempt to turn around and say that you support their sacrifice.

[Donerail]

I thank the Governor for his well-reasoned veto.

[Classic Conservative]

This is abhorrent to the sacrifice of our ancestors and is a rightly deplorable decision. The South Will Rise Again!

[Donerail]

This is abhorrent to the sacrifice of our ancestors and is a rightly deplorable decision. The South Will Rise Again!

aren't you from massachusetts

[Classic Conservative]

This is abhorrent to the sacrifice of our ancestors and is a rightly deplorable decision. The South Will Rise Again!

aren't you from massachusetts

I am and a large portion of my mothers family fought in the Union Army. One of my direct ancestors was a prisoner of war at Andersonville.

[Donerail]

This is abhorrent to the sacrifice of our ancestors and is a rightly deplorable decision. The South Will Rise Again!

aren't you from massachusetts

I am and a large portion of my mothers family fought in the Union Army. One of my direct ancestors was a prisoner of war at Andersonville.

"our"

[fhtagn]

This is abhorrent to the sacrifice of our ancestors and is a rightly deplorable decision. The South Will Rise Again!

aren't you from massachusetts

I don't really see how asking where he is from is relevant. Paying respect for fallen soldiers and protecting cemeteries and monuments is something any decent person should agree with.

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

This is abhorrent to the sacrifice of our ancestors and is a rightly deplorable decision. The South Will Rise Again!

aren't you from massachusetts

I don't really see how asking where he is from is relevant. Paying respect for fallen soldiers and protecting cemeteries and monuments is something any decent person should agree with.

"our" is the key word, I guess.

[fhtagn]

This is abhorrent to the sacrifice of our ancestors and is a rightly deplorable decision. The South Will Rise Again!

aren't you from massachusetts

I don't really see how asking where he is from is relevant. Paying respect for fallen soldiers and protecting cemeteries and monuments is something any decent person should agree with.

"our" is the key word, I guess.

I think it's safe to assume he meant "our" collectively.

[NeverAgain]

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[NeverAgain]

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[diptheriadan]

Very nonpartisan move by the Governor.

[NeverAgain]

Very nonpartisan move by the Governor.

I believe that our region must value ability to serve over partisanship, as I do.

[diptheriadan]

Very nonpartisan move by the Governor.

I believe that our region must value ability to serve over partisanship, as I do.

As do I, Mr. Governor. I think Ben would applaud this honorable action.

[JustinTimeCuber]

Great choice by the Governor. Congrats on your appointment, West_Midlander.

[fhtagn]

Congratulations on your appointment, West_Midlander! I look forwarding to serving the greatest region in Atlasia with you

[West_Midlander]

Congratulations on your appointment, West_Midlander! I look forwarding to serving the greatest region in Atlasia with you

Thank you for those kind words, fhtagn. Cheers!

[West_Midlander]

Great choice by the Governor. Congrats on your appointment, West_Midlander.

Thanks, JTC. I look forward to working with you on the minimum wage!