I thought Congres. GOP were supposed to be lapdogs, who’d always vote with Trump

[Mr. Morden]

Wasn’t that the Atlas forum meme of just ~1 month ago, when Betsy DeVos was confirmed?  That Republicans in Congress would never actually go against Trump except when they were given permission by leadership because it was something that was going to pass anyway?  That even opposition from folks like Amash was phony?  Trump is supposed to be uniquely popular with the base, and because the Congressional Republicans are terrified of crossing the base, they’ll follow him anywhere, right?

I guess that was wrong.

[ApatheticAustrian]

depends on the topic.

republicans surely would kill ideological point of views in a second if the alternative would be more popular.....

but...this was THE MAJOR REASON of 2010 and many freedom caucusers are in congress cause of Ocare.

and...most of all....the republican caucus isn't on the same page.....as the democrats were, by comparison.

[BlueSwan]

There's one thing that any politician fears more intensely than anything else: the wrath of the voters.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

The Trump Administration, and maybe more importantly the reputation/perception of the Trump administration among everyone but his devout cultists, has gone down perceptibly since a month ago.


I think any and all members of the GOP bear the guilt of supporting and electing Trump, but its clear that there is a line between people (in and out of government) who are part of the cult, and those who just don't see anything wrong with him or working with him. The latter seem to be figuring out that while Candidate Trump had a degree of success, President Trump is a bumbling yet despicable idiot-clown.

[Deblano]

As long as they get to keep their cushy jobs and their nice pensions, they will vote with Trump and kiss his feet.

[Shadows]

Trump may pass it before the mid-terms when premiums hike further & he will blame the Freedom Caucus for ACA. He will even threaten to work with Dems, primary them if they don't cooperate ! They can get 20 out of the say 40 holdouts, its quite difficult but not impossible.

One good thing about Pelosi & the Dem administration was they worked on ACA for a long while & brought it only after they had the votes while Trump/Ryan rushed it totally! It is incompetence from Trump & him being a clueless novice !

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

St. Jude, the patron saint of the lost causes
St. Jude, we were lost before she started
St. Jude, we lay in bed as she whipped around us
St. Jude, maybe I've always been more comfortable in chaos

(emphasis mine)

[I Won - Get Over It]

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Yeah, but since they knew he hated the bill it doesn't count

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Well, did all those who voted Trump in the primary vote with him?
The point is that there weren't very many.

[Mr. Morden]

I also remember when some folks here were doubting that #NeverTrump Republicans would manage to hold out until the election without endorsing him.  E.g.:

I wonder how many of "never Trump" crowd would eventually fall in line if he's nominated: "well yes, I had some doubts but the most important thing now is to unite and prevent Obama's third term".

Of course, between that post being written in March and the actual election in November, the #NeverTrump list of Republican politicians grew significantly more than it shrank, with ultimately nearly a quarter of Senate Republicans refusing to endorse him.

So yes, the majority of the GOP caucus is (presumably) always going to go along with him, which is how it works for every president.  But the minority of the caucus that will defect on certain issues (including the issue of whether he should have been elected in the first place ) is enough to give him headaches.

Well, did all those who voted Trump in the primary vote with him?
The point is that there weren't very many.

Weren’t very many what?  Congressional Republicans who endorsed Trump in the primary?  That is true, he got few endorsements from Congress when the nomination was contested.  Or did you mean something else?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I also remember when some folks here were doubting that #NeverTrump Republicans would manage to hold out until the election without endorsing him.  E.g.:

I wonder how many of "never Trump" crowd would eventually fall in line if he's nominated: "well yes, I had some doubts but the most important thing now is to unite and prevent Obama's third term".

Of course, between that post being written in March and the actual election in November, the #NeverTrump list of Republican politicians grew significantly more than it shrank, with ultimately nearly a quarter of Senate Republicans refusing to endorse him.

So yes, the majority of the GOP caucus is (presumably) always going to go along with him, which is how it works for every president.  But the minority of the caucus that will defect on certain issues (including the issue of whether he should have been elected in the first place ) is enough to give him headaches.

Well, did all those who voted Trump in the primary vote with him?
The point is that there weren't very many.

Weren’t very many what?  Congressional Republicans who endorsed Trump in the primary?  That is true, he got few endorsements from Congress when the nomination was contested.  Or did you mean something else?

Yes, not that many supported him in the primary, and some didn't support him in the general election, while others only supported him because of Mike Pence.

[Mr. Morden]

Sorry to do this guys, but examples of what I’m talking about…

Bold Prediction - zero Republicans cross over to vote against Puzder, Puzder makes it through 52-48.

It really doesn't matter if there are crossovers now.  Today's vote shows that fifty Republicans are cowards who will happily vote in lockstep with their Fuhrer regardless of how unwise it is, and that's all that's needed.

Bold Prediction - zero Republicans cross over to vote against Puzder, Puzder makes it through 52-48.

Better question, will any Republican vote against any of the remaining nominees?

Better question yet, will any of the 50 cowards ever oppose Trump in any meaningful way? (i.e. not just talk it abstractly, a la "maaaaaaaaybe I'll have to vote against Tillerson ")

Of course, this was a failure in the House rather than the Senate, but the same thing would’ve happened if the Senate had gone first.  The fact that they were willing to approve his entire Cabinet except Puzder didn’t actually mean that they’d always go along with him on policy.

The argument some folks seemed to be buying into was that Trump had some sort of unique mind meld with the GOP base, and that would insulate him from defections.  The fact that he spoke with a 4th grade level vocabulary and insulted people made him some kind of working class hero, which made his support from the base more "authentic"....or something.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Sorry to do this guys, but examples of what I’m talking about…

Bold Prediction - zero Republicans cross over to vote against Puzder, Puzder makes it through 52-48.

It really doesn't matter if there are crossovers now.  Today's vote shows that fifty Republicans are cowards who will happily vote in lockstep with their Fuhrer regardless of how unwise it is, and that's all that's needed.

Bold Prediction - zero Republicans cross over to vote against Puzder, Puzder makes it through 52-48.

Better question, will any Republican vote against any of the remaining nominees?

Better question yet, will any of the 50 cowards ever oppose Trump in any meaningful way? (i.e. not just talk it abstractly, a la "maaaaaaaaybe I'll have to vote against Tillerson ")

Of course, this was a failure in the House rather than the Senate, but the same thing would’ve happened if the Senate had gone first.  The fact that they were willing to approve his entire Cabinet except Puzder didn’t actually mean that they’d always go along with him on policy.

The argument some folks seemed to be buying into was that Trump had some sort of unique mind meld with the GOP base, and that would insulate him from defections.  The fact that he spoke with a 4th grade level vocabulary and insulted people made him some kind of working class hero, which made his support from the base more "authentic"....or something.

It's much more common to vote against your party on legislation than on a cabinet appointment.

[Sumner 1868]

They voted for DeVos because they like her agenda. Not much more needs to be said.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Sorry to do this guys, but examples of what I’m talking about…

Bold Prediction - zero Republicans cross over to vote against Puzder, Puzder makes it through 52-48.

It really doesn't matter if there are crossovers now.  Today's vote shows that fifty Republicans are cowards who will happily vote in lockstep with their Fuhrer regardless of how unwise it is, and that's all that's needed.

Bold Prediction - zero Republicans cross over to vote against Puzder, Puzder makes it through 52-48.

Better question, will any Republican vote against any of the remaining nominees?

Better question yet, will any of the 50 cowards ever oppose Trump in any meaningful way? (i.e. not just talk it abstractly, a la "maaaaaaaaybe I'll have to vote against Tillerson ")

Of course, this was a failure in the House rather than the Senate, but the same thing would’ve happened if the Senate had gone first.  The fact that they were willing to approve his entire Cabinet except Puzder didn’t actually mean that they’d always go along with him on policy.

The argument some folks seemed to be buying into was that Trump had some sort of unique mind meld with the GOP base, and that would insulate him from defections.  The fact that he spoke with a 4th grade level vocabulary and insulted people made him some kind of working class hero, which made his support from the base more "authentic"....or something.

It's much more common to vote against your party on legislation than on a cabinet appointment.

     It still makes the point that Congressional Republicans are something more than a rubber-stamp to the Trump Administration agenda. Many of them showed less sense than would be desirable (not that this is anything new out of the House), but it does hurt the "Trump as fascist dictator" meme that some people have been pushing. A fascist dictator would have had more success doing something of this sort.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

The Betsy DeVos vote appeared to be a perfect signal of whether republicans would be willing to oppose Trump - As she was plainly unqualified for the position. She didn't understand basic concepts like Proficiency, she didn't understand disability laws, she was objectively incoherent on guns in schools, and she had never even set foot in a public school, yet wanted to run the nation's public schools. THERE IS NO POSSIBLE SANE WAY TO VIEW HER AS EVEN REMOTELY QUALIFIED. Unless you're a partisan Trumplican, there was no reason to vote for her.

It may have been a red Herring, but it's also noteworthy that both Puzder and TrumpCare were pulled, not actually voted on. I will need republicans to formally vote down something Trump wants before I believe they're willing to oppose him in large numbers.

[Mr. Morden]

It may have been a red Herring, but it's also noteworthy that both Puzder and TrumpCare were pulled, not actually voted on. I will need republicans to formally vote down something Trump wants before I believe they're willing to oppose him in large numbers.

Problem with that is that the party leadership is capable of counting votes before the vote is held, and will not bother holding a vote if something is going to lose, as we saw in the cases mentioned above.  So unless Democrats are going to start siding with Trump on certain issues, then on any vote for which more than a couple of Republicans are going to defect, there just won't be a vote held at all.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Sorry to do this guys, but examples of what I’m talking about…

Bold Prediction - zero Republicans cross over to vote against Puzder, Puzder makes it through 52-48.

It really doesn't matter if there are crossovers now.  Today's vote shows that fifty Republicans are cowards who will happily vote in lockstep with their Fuhrer regardless of how unwise it is, and that's all that's needed.

Bold Prediction - zero Republicans cross over to vote against Puzder, Puzder makes it through 52-48.

Better question, will any Republican vote against any of the remaining nominees?

Better question yet, will any of the 50 cowards ever oppose Trump in any meaningful way? (i.e. not just talk it abstractly, a la "maaaaaaaaybe I'll have to vote against Tillerson ")

Of course, this was a failure in the House rather than the Senate, but the same thing would’ve happened if the Senate had gone first.  The fact that they were willing to approve his entire Cabinet except Puzder didn’t actually mean that they’d always go along with him on policy.

The argument some folks seemed to be buying into was that Trump had some sort of unique mind meld with the GOP base, and that would insulate him from defections.  The fact that he spoke with a 4th grade level vocabulary and insulted people made him some kind of working class hero, which made his support from the base more "authentic"....or something.

It's much more common to vote against your party on legislation than on a cabinet appointment.

     It still makes the point that Congressional Republicans are something more than a rubber-stamp to the Trump Administration agenda. Many of them showed less sense than would be desirable (not that this is anything new out of the House), but it does hurt the "Trump as fascist dictator" meme that some people have been pushing. A fascist dictator would have had more success doing something of this sort.

Angry rants aside, the point is not that Trump IS a fascist dictator, it is that he WANTS to be a fascist dictator. (Or at least be free to act like one.) Our saving grace is that Trump is not merely evil, he is grossly incompetent at everything save conning suckers.

That incompetence may come to hurt the nation badly, but it also means his efforts at turning the Presidency of the United States in a corrupt autocracy are as pathetic as they are petty. That doesn't mean they cannot be dangerous, just that Trump is more likely to end up like Commodus than Augustus.

While repeal/replacing Obamacare might have met the same fate with any of Trump's primary opponents in the White House, I am very skeptical any of them (even Rubio or Carson) would have so much ostentatious and uncoordinated ineptitude in execution. That the "winner" and "master of the deal" responded to setbacks by throwing tantrums and pointing fingers does a better job discrediting him than anything else I can say.

[Associate Justice PiT]

It may have been a red Herring, but it's also noteworthy that both Puzder and TrumpCare were pulled, not actually voted on. I will need republicans to formally vote down something Trump wants before I believe they're willing to oppose him in large numbers.

Problem with that is that the party leadership is capable of counting votes before the vote is held, and will not bother holding a vote if something is going to lose, as we saw in the cases mentioned above.  So unless Democrats are going to start siding with Trump on certain issues, then on any vote for which more than a couple of Republicans are going to defect, there just won't be a vote held at all.

     Indeed, it is hilarious in a sense. The party leadership wants to avoid a situation where the rank and file rebels against them and works to prevent that scenario. On the other hand, Wulfric demands that the rank and file rebels against them to prove that they are capable of independent action. As it happens, the party leadership is working (coincidentally of course) to ensure that Wulfric will never consider the rank and file as being capable of independent action.

[hopper]

The bill was bad and it was even worse than ObamaCare. It deserved to be pulled from the House Floor.