Frank Rich: "No Sympathy for the Hillbilly"

[Deblano]

"These hillbillies need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get a job."

[Deblano]

People like this foolish, classist man make me wonder if Democrats will win back power for the foreseeable future, despite their various advantages.  I've read several articles with this kind of tone, and they all make me simultaneously angry and very worried.

The Republicans are good at campaigning and winning elections, but are terrible at governing.

The Democrats are good at governing, but are terrible at campaigning and winning elections.

[Deblano]

There is a lot of this attitude ("Anyone who disagrees with me a stupid racist sexist Nazi POS!") on the Democratic side, unfortunately. (Let's not pretend that there isn't a similar attitude on the right, but I digress...) This is not a productive attitude, and it's certainly not going to serve any of us well in the future. While it's true that many Trump supporters are not going to be convinced to turn against him, there are certainly some who could potentially be swayed. The type of argument presented in this article is what has pushed many people away from the Democratic Party. Also, maybe convincing people in rural America to pull the lever in the voting booth a certain way shouldn't be our end goal. Perhaps empathy should be about recognizing that we don't have to see each other as enemies, rather than just winning elections.

One thing I do want to point out, though, is that I think that the pain from Trump winning is still very fresh for a lot of people on the left. Lashing out at those who made it possible is the only way some people have of dealing with that pain. I don't defend what Frank Rich said. Of course constantly attacking all Trump voters is not the right way to go. Still, many people saw Trump's election as a giant middle finger being shoved in their face. I know many women who think that the "lesson" from this election is that no matter how qualified and hard-working a woman is, a morally reprehensible man is still preferable. I know immigrants and Muslims who take his election as this country's way of saying "you don't belong here. This is my country. Get out."

I would urge conservatives to try and see why people are so upset about Trump, rather than dismissing them as "sore loser crybabies" or saying that they just have "Trump derangement syndrome." Empathy needs to go both ways, or in other words, "both sides need to do it."

I pretty much agree with all of this.

[Deblano]

Talking about these people like they're hardcore conservatives is a bizarre predilection of many Democrats. Sure there are plenty of conservatives and partisan Republicans in any state, but the Obama-Trump voters who swung these states really aren't a part of that. They would be quite easy to swing back, but it doesn't sound like you're interested in doing that.

It's really remarkable how what will benefit [party that just lost] the most going forward is always whatever best suits the political views of the person talking, isn't it?

     How does this suit my political views? The kinds of things that Democrats would propose to bring these people back into the fold are not policies I would be particularly enthused by.

I'm agreeing with you and being snide about NSV, not being snide about you.

Yes my posts always deserve snide treatment from this board because I don't worship white working class voters and socialism.  Love the "tolerant progressives" here. 

Do you not think that WWC voters in places like McDowell County, West Virginia don't deserve at least A LITTLE more attention?

Or should they all just screw their cousins and huff coal smoke to death because at least lifting a finger to help them is "socialism", "progressivism", and all the other scary -isms that you can name?

[Deblano]

Talking about these people like they're hardcore conservatives is a bizarre predilection of many Democrats. Sure there are plenty of conservatives and partisan Republicans in any state, but the Obama-Trump voters who swung these states really aren't a part of that. They would be quite easy to swing back, but it doesn't sound like you're interested in doing that.

It's really remarkable how what will benefit [party that just lost] the most going forward is always whatever best suits the political views of the person talking, isn't it?

     How does this suit my political views? The kinds of things that Democrats would propose to bring these people back into the fold are not policies I would be particularly enthused by.

I'm agreeing with you and being snide about NSV, not being snide about you.

Yes my posts always deserve snide treatment from this board because I don't worship white working class voters and socialism.  Love the "tolerant progressives" here. 

Do you not think that WWC voters in places like McDowell County, West Virginia don't deserve at least A LITTLE more attention?

Or should they all just screw their cousins and huff coal smoke to death because at least lifting a finger to help them is "socialism", "progressivism", and all the other scary -isms that you can name?

More attention than inner city baltimore, or suburban reston, virginia...?  no not really.  I think everyone should get largely equal attention from politicians, not just whatever voter group is hot at a given time.

I'm very skeptical that the coal miner in McDowell County gets the equal amount of attention from the Democrats as the suburban Reston voters or inner city Baltimore voter. They are ignored by the Democrats and scammed by the Republicans while their quality of life plummets. Giving them equal and much needed sympathy is not the same as worshiping them.

[Deblano]

People like this foolish, classist man make me wonder if Democrats will win back power for the foreseeable future, despite their various advantages.  I've read several articles with this kind of tone, and they all make me simultaneously angry and very worried.

     This is something I've been saying across many threads. While there certainly is time to change their tune, so many Democrats are coming forth and speaking about the situation with the same condescending tone that drove people to vote for Trump in the first place. If they learned their lesson from the party's collapse in the Midwest, they're doing an excellent job of hiding it.

Umm, perhaps his tone could have been less argumentative, but there is an element of truth that Democrats should not be completely placating voters in a handful of states just to win the electoral college.  Also, they shouldn't think that just because Michigan, Wisconsin, etc. were the closest states in this election that these are necessarily the states they must target next time.

     Reality is, this is a block of voters that used to be solidly Democratic, but has been trending Republican because they don't see the Democrats as caring about the issues they care about. Their concerns are not the end-all be-all, but it would be hard to put together a winning coalition by simply writing them. At the least, harder than it would be to put together a winning coalition by drawing them into the fold.

OK. And?  To win some voters you will turn off others.  If 100% of people wanted the same thing we wouldn't have elections.  Many of these voters are simply not in line with democrats on social issues and many people vote on social issues nowadays.  The fact of the matter is that the Democratic coalition consistently gets more votes in Presidential years and all segments of this coalition are growing in population.  To suddenly appease rural whites as a short term fix would be dumb and threaten to break apart the already fragile coalition Democrats have been building for years.

     Talking about these people like they're hardcore conservatives is a bizarre predilection of many Democrats. Sure there are plenty of conservatives and partisan Republicans in any state, but the Obama-Trump voters who swung these states really aren't a part of that. They would be quite easy to swing back, but it doesn't sound like you're interested in doing that.

     With that said, making this about Presidential elections is an ongoing strategic failure of the Democrats, who have long underemphasized Congressional and state races. Your party has been thoroughly gutted in many state governments, a trend that has been particularly marked in the Midwest. Losing power in so many states is going to have long-term effects on your ability to compete for higher offices, not to mention the mere continued failure to focus on growing state parties. The idea that the Democratic Party is in a healthy electoral situation now is frankly absurd.

Agreed. You just look at the past 8 years and just assume that it was all a strange fluke for the Democratic Party.

[Deblano]

"The State giveth" is a bizarre response to whatever NSV is on about but we are all by now familiar with macho bluster about 'parasites' and guillotines etc from forum leftists.

You have NSV's "taxes and social safety nets are stupid" attitude on one side and then you have your keyboard commies on the other side

How embarrassing.

As much as I disagree with socialists on taxation, taxes will always be a necessary evil. What we need to focus on is making sure taxes don't stagnate the amount of people purchasing goods or investing in the economy (I.e I'm against increasing sales taxes or corporate taxes)

[Deblano]

It is pretty funny how the various narratives being spun about the mysterious Midwest whites is very similar to competing colonial depictions of natives. Are they a vast tribe of aggressive unreasonable non-woke types who should be feared and despised? Are they a dying, noble breed more in touch than the effete observer? Do they merely need to be tamed and introduced to microbreweries and coding lessons so they can be brought into the brave world if the future?

I'd also add on with how there's a lot of "they need to stop being so entitled and just pull themselves up by their bootstraps" rhetoric from these people against rural folks like we see with the right wing and inner city minorities.