Tax Reform: It’s Not About the Rich, It’s About the Successful

[Hindsight was 2020]

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The new TP is out it was once "the job creators" now it's "the successful" http://www.mediaite.com/tv/gop-rep-on-tax-reform-its-not-about-the-rich-its-about-the-successful/#disqus_thread

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Why don't they just preach the prosperity gospel openly? It's almost like their ashamed to admit their real beliefs.

[Shadows]

How will Koch brothers getting 100's of Millions of $ in tax breaks benefit the economy? So that they can spend more in Superpacs ? Even if this so-called uber rich people start a corporation, it will be through debt from Banks/Venture Capital or equity sale & not through the extra savings from a personal tax cut etc.

Do people seriously believe people with 100's of Millions really getting extra money will create jobs? If anything these people have much lower consumption/spending per 100 $ of income (Marginal Propensity to Consume - MPC in Economics) than a low income guy. And Consumption is the key driver of GDP (biggest component), creates demand, jobs, enlarges tax revenue etc!

For economic growth, is is better for 10,000 people to have 1000 $ more money/income than 100 people to have 1M $ more. Isn't the deficit a concern now?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

How will Koch brothers getting 100's of Millions of $ in tax breaks benefit the economy? So that they can spend more in Superpacs ? Even if this so-called uber rich people start a corporation, it will be through debt from Banks/Venture Capital or equity sale & not through the extra savings from a personal tax cut etc.

Do people seriously believe people with 100's of Millions really getting extra money will create jobs? If anything these people have much lower consumption/spending per 100 $ of income (Marginal Propensity to Consume - MPC in Economics) than a low income guy. And Consumption is the key driver of GDP (biggest component), creates demand, jobs, enlarges tax revenue etc!

For economic growth, is is better for 10,000 people to have 1000 $ more money/income than 100 people to have 1M $ more. Isn't the deficit a concern now?

Yes but lets be clear here, you guys don't just want to overtax the Koch brothers, you want to overtax those making $400K, $300K... probably $100K... even if they live in a high cost of living area.

The US government already spends more on healthcare than most if not every other country in the world per capita. And yet other first world countries are have universal healthcare. It's obvious we're doing something horribly wrong.

[Intell]

How will Koch brothers getting 100's of Millions of $ in tax breaks benefit the economy? So that they can spend more in Superpacs ? Even if this so-called uber rich people start a corporation, it will be through debt from Banks/Venture Capital or equity sale & not through the extra savings from a personal tax cut etc.

Do people seriously believe people with 100's of Millions really getting extra money will create jobs? If anything these people have much lower consumption/spending per 100 $ of income (Marginal Propensity to Consume - MPC in Economics) than a low income guy. And Consumption is the key driver of GDP (biggest component), creates demand, jobs, enlarges tax revenue etc!

For economic growth, is is better for 10,000 people to have 1000 $ more money/income than 100 people to have 1M $ more. Isn't the deficit a concern now?

Yes but lets be clear here, you guys don't just want to overtax the Koch brothers, you want to overtax those making $400K, $300K... probably $100K... even if they live in a high cost of living area.

Yes, since everyone making over ~200k is rich, and should tax more, you're not getting overtaxxed. You're paying the same tax rate for the same amount that is earnt with people that are poorer than you, and when you earn more you get taxed more!.

[Intell]

How will Koch brothers getting 100's of Millions of $ in tax breaks benefit the economy? So that they can spend more in Superpacs ? Even if this so-called uber rich people start a corporation, it will be through debt from Banks/Venture Capital or equity sale & not through the extra savings from a personal tax cut etc.

Do people seriously believe people with 100's of Millions really getting extra money will create jobs? If anything these people have much lower consumption/spending per 100 $ of income (Marginal Propensity to Consume - MPC in Economics) than a low income guy. And Consumption is the key driver of GDP (biggest component), creates demand, jobs, enlarges tax revenue etc!

For economic growth, is is better for 10,000 people to have 1000 $ more money/income than 100 people to have 1M $ more. Isn't the deficit a concern now?

Yes but lets be clear here, you guys don't just want to overtax the Koch brothers, you want to overtax those making $400K, $300K... probably $100K... even if they live in a high cost of living area.

Yes, since everyone making over ~200k is rich, and should tax more, you're not getting overtaxxed. You're paying the same tax rate for the same amount that is earnt with people that are poorer than you, and when you earn more you get taxed more!.

LMAO at the absurdity here.

No absurdity. You're in the top 2% of americans with that income. You 1 must have some sense of privilege, if you don't think that's rich.

[Intell]

How will Koch brothers getting 100's of Millions of $ in tax breaks benefit the economy? So that they can spend more in Superpacs ? Even if this so-called uber rich people start a corporation, it will be through debt from Banks/Venture Capital or equity sale & not through the extra savings from a personal tax cut etc.

Do people seriously believe people with 100's of Millions really getting extra money will create jobs? If anything these people have much lower consumption/spending per 100 $ of income (Marginal Propensity to Consume - MPC in Economics) than a low income guy. And Consumption is the key driver of GDP (biggest component), creates demand, jobs, enlarges tax revenue etc!

For economic growth, is is better for 10,000 people to have 1000 $ more money/income than 100 people to have 1M $ more. Isn't the deficit a concern now?

Yes but lets be clear here, you guys don't just want to overtax the Koch brothers, you want to overtax those making $400K, $300K... probably $100K... even if they live in a high cost of living area.

Yes, since everyone making over ~200k is rich, and should tax more, you're not getting overtaxxed. You're paying the same tax rate for the same amount that is earnt with people that are poorer than you, and when you earn more you get taxed more!.

LMAO at the absurdity here.

No absurdity. You're in the top 2% of americans with that income. You 1 must have some sense of privilege, if you don't think that's rich.

Oh really?  I grew up completely middle class.  I'm just smart enough to realize that if you make $200K a year in a high cost of living city, you are anything but rich.  When you get into the real world you will realize this is the case as well.  Someone making 200K a year in NYC is probably worse off than someone making 75K in rural Georgia.  

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/travel/most-expensive-cities-2016/


It's rich, you can like in 49k in a high-cost city (Los Angeles), 200k is rich. People also don't generally get paid 200k in rural Georgia. You can have everything needed in life with 200k, plus much more.

[Intell]

How will Koch brothers getting 100's of Millions of $ in tax breaks benefit the economy? So that they can spend more in Superpacs ? Even if this so-called uber rich people start a corporation, it will be through debt from Banks/Venture Capital or equity sale & not through the extra savings from a personal tax cut etc.

Do people seriously believe people with 100's of Millions really getting extra money will create jobs? If anything these people have much lower consumption/spending per 100 $ of income (Marginal Propensity to Consume - MPC in Economics) than a low income guy. And Consumption is the key driver of GDP (biggest component), creates demand, jobs, enlarges tax revenue etc!

For economic growth, is is better for 10,000 people to have 1000 $ more money/income than 100 people to have 1M $ more. Isn't the deficit a concern now?

Yes but lets be clear here, you guys don't just want to overtax the Koch brothers, you want to overtax those making $400K, $300K... probably $100K... even if they live in a high cost of living area.

Yes, since everyone making over ~200k is rich, and should tax more, you're not getting overtaxxed. You're paying the same tax rate for the same amount that is earnt with people that are poorer than you, and when you earn more you get taxed more!.

LMAO at the absurdity here.

No absurdity. You're in the top 2% of americans with that income. You 1 must have some sense of privilege, if you don't think that's rich.

Oh really?  I grew up completely middle class.  I'm just smart enough to realize that if you make $200K a year in a high cost of living city, you are anything but rich.  When you get into the real world you will realize this is the case as well.  Someone making 200K a year in NYC is probably worse off than someone making 75K in rural Georgia.  

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/travel/most-expensive-cities-2016/


It's rich, you can like in 49k in a high-cost city (Los Angeles), 200k is rich. People also don't generally get paid 200k in rural Georgia. You can have everything needed in life with 200k, plus much more.

instead of focusing on people who make more than you and why they owe you something in life, perhaps you could try to better your situation, get an education, become accomplished, learn a trade, and pay your own way.  a noble idea. 

People don't owe me anything, a government owes individuals anyone basics rights, such as education, healthcare, food, housing etc.  You do realise how expensive unifees are, it's completely unaffordable. Also that is not mu income, it's the incoe that I grew up with, though I do just more than that, and it's affordable, so 200k is rich.

I also know a trade, thank you very much.

[Intell]

How will Koch brothers getting 100's of Millions of $ in tax breaks benefit the economy? So that they can spend more in Superpacs ? Even if this so-called uber rich people start a corporation, it will be through debt from Banks/Venture Capital or equity sale & not through the extra savings from a personal tax cut etc.

Do people seriously believe people with 100's of Millions really getting extra money will create jobs? If anything these people have much lower consumption/spending per 100 $ of income (Marginal Propensity to Consume - MPC in Economics) than a low income guy. And Consumption is the key driver of GDP (biggest component), creates demand, jobs, enlarges tax revenue etc!

For economic growth, is is better for 10,000 people to have 1000 $ more money/income than 100 people to have 1M $ more. Isn't the deficit a concern now?

Yes but lets be clear here, you guys don't just want to overtax the Koch brothers, you want to overtax those making $400K, $300K... probably $100K... even if they live in a high cost of living area.

Yes, since everyone making over ~200k is rich, and should tax more, you're not getting overtaxxed. You're paying the same tax rate for the same amount that is earnt with people that are poorer than you, and when you earn more you get taxed more!.

LMAO at the absurdity here.

No absurdity. You're in the top 2% of americans with that income. You 1 must have some sense of privilege, if you don't think that's rich.

Oh really?  I grew up completely middle class.  I'm just smart enough to realize that if you make $200K a year in a high cost of living city, you are anything but rich.  When you get into the real world you will realize this is the case as well.  Someone making 200K a year in NYC is probably worse off than someone making 75K in rural Georgia.  

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/travel/most-expensive-cities-2016/


It's rich, you can like in 49k in a high-cost city (Los Angeles), 200k is rich. People also don't generally get paid 200k in rural Georgia. You can have everything needed in life with 200k, plus much more.

instead of focusing on people who make more than you and why they owe you something in life, perhaps you could try to better your situation, get an education, become accomplished, learn a trade, and pay your own way.  a noble idea. 

People don't owe me anything, a government owes individuals anyone basics rights, such as education, healthcare, food, housing etc.  You do realise how expensive unifees are, it's completely unaffordable. Also that is not mu income, it's the incoe that I grew up with, though I do just more than that, and it's affordable, so 200k is rich.

I also know a trade, thank you very much.

you forgot clothing.

yes I did.

[Intell]

How will Koch brothers getting 100's of Millions of $ in tax breaks benefit the economy? So that they can spend more in Superpacs ? Even if this so-called uber rich people start a corporation, it will be through debt from Banks/Venture Capital or equity sale & not through the extra savings from a personal tax cut etc.

Do people seriously believe people with 100's of Millions really getting extra money will create jobs? If anything these people have much lower consumption/spending per 100 $ of income (Marginal Propensity to Consume - MPC in Economics) than a low income guy. And Consumption is the key driver of GDP (biggest component), creates demand, jobs, enlarges tax revenue etc!

For economic growth, is is better for 10,000 people to have 1000 $ more money/income than 100 people to have 1M $ more. Isn't the deficit a concern now?

Yes but lets be clear here, you guys don't just want to overtax the Koch brothers, you want to overtax those making $400K, $300K... probably $100K... even if they live in a high cost of living area.

Yes, since everyone making over ~200k is rich, and should tax more, you're not getting overtaxxed. You're paying the same tax rate for the same amount that is earnt with people that are poorer than you, and when you earn more you get taxed more!.

LMAO at the absurdity here.

No absurdity. You're in the top 2% of americans with that income. You 1 must have some sense of privilege, if you don't think that's rich.

Oh really?  I grew up completely middle class.  I'm just smart enough to realize that if you make $200K a year in a high cost of living city, you are anything but rich.  When you get into the real world you will realize this is the case as well.  Someone making 200K a year in NYC is probably worse off than someone making 75K in rural Georgia.  

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/travel/most-expensive-cities-2016/


It's rich, you can like in 49k in a high-cost city (Los Angeles), 200k is rich. People also don't generally get paid 200k in rural Georgia. You can have everything needed in life with 200k, plus much more.

instead of focusing on people who make more than you and why they owe you something in life, perhaps you could try to better your situation, get an education, become accomplished, learn a trade, and pay your own way.  a noble idea. 

People don't owe me anything, a government owes individuals anyone basics rights, such as education, healthcare, food, housing etc.  You do realise how expensive unifees are, it's completely unaffordable. Also that is not mu income, it's the incoe that I grew up with, though I do just more than that, and it's affordable, so 200k is rich.

I also know a trade, thank you very much.

you forgot clothing.

yes I did.

I guess add that to the list of things U.S. taxpayers will never pay for.

US taxpayers wouldn't pay for a lot of things they would never pay for, then they did.

[Intell]

How will Koch brothers getting 100's of Millions of $ in tax breaks benefit the economy? So that they can spend more in Superpacs ? Even if this so-called uber rich people start a corporation, it will be through debt from Banks/Venture Capital or equity sale & not through the extra savings from a personal tax cut etc.

Do people seriously believe people with 100's of Millions really getting extra money will create jobs? If anything these people have much lower consumption/spending per 100 $ of income (Marginal Propensity to Consume - MPC in Economics) than a low income guy. And Consumption is the key driver of GDP (biggest component), creates demand, jobs, enlarges tax revenue etc!

For economic growth, is is better for 10,000 people to have 1000 $ more money/income than 100 people to have 1M $ more. Isn't the deficit a concern now?

Yes but lets be clear here, you guys don't just want to overtax the Koch brothers, you want to overtax those making $400K, $300K... probably $100K... even if they live in a high cost of living area.

Yes, since everyone making over ~200k is rich, and should tax more, you're not getting overtaxxed. You're paying the same tax rate for the same amount that is earnt with people that are poorer than you, and when you earn more you get taxed more!.

LMAO at the absurdity here.

No absurdity. You're in the top 2% of americans with that income. You 1 must have some sense of privilege, if you don't think that's rich.

Oh really?  I grew up completely middle class.  I'm just smart enough to realize that if you make $200K a year in a high cost of living city, you are anything but rich.  When you get into the real world you will realize this is the case as well.  Someone making 200K a year in NYC is probably worse off than someone making 75K in rural Georgia.  

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/travel/most-expensive-cities-2016/


It's rich, you can like in 49k in a high-cost city (Los Angeles), 200k is rich. People also don't generally get paid 200k in rural Georgia. You can have everything needed in life with 200k, plus much more.

instead of focusing on people who make more than you and why they owe you something in life, perhaps you could try to better your situation, get an education, become accomplished, learn a trade, and pay your own way.  a noble idea. 

People don't owe me anything, a government owes individuals anyone basics rights, such as education, healthcare, food, housing etc.  You do realise how expensive unifees are, it's completely unaffordable. Also that is not mu income, it's the incoe that I grew up with, though I do just more than that, and it's affordable, so 200k is rich.

I also know a trade, thank you very much.

you forgot clothing.

yes I did.

I guess add that to the list of things U.S. taxpayers will never pay for.

US taxpayers wouldn't pay for a lot of things they would never pay for, then they did.

Well, if you are a U.S. citizen, you can keep holding out hope for that.  The rest of us will just buy our own clothes.

As would I.

[Intell]

How will Koch brothers getting 100's of Millions of $ in tax breaks benefit the economy? So that they can spend more in Superpacs ? Even if this so-called uber rich people start a corporation, it will be through debt from Banks/Venture Capital or equity sale & not through the extra savings from a personal tax cut etc.

Do people seriously believe people with 100's of Millions really getting extra money will create jobs? If anything these people have much lower consumption/spending per 100 $ of income (Marginal Propensity to Consume - MPC in Economics) than a low income guy. And Consumption is the key driver of GDP (biggest component), creates demand, jobs, enlarges tax revenue etc!

For economic growth, is is better for 10,000 people to have 1000 $ more money/income than 100 people to have 1M $ more. Isn't the deficit a concern now?

Yes but lets be clear here, you guys don't just want to overtax the Koch brothers, you want to overtax those making $400K, $300K... probably $100K... even if they live in a high cost of living area.

Yes, since everyone making over ~200k is rich, and should tax more, you're not getting overtaxxed. You're paying the same tax rate for the same amount that is earnt with people that are poorer than you, and when you earn more you get taxed more!.

LMAO at the absurdity here.

No absurdity. You're in the top 2% of americans with that income. You 1 must have some sense of privilege, if you don't think that's rich.

Oh really?  I grew up completely middle class.  I'm just smart enough to realize that if you make $200K a year in a high cost of living city, you are anything but rich.  When you get into the real world you will realize this is the case as well.  Someone making 200K a year in NYC is probably worse off than someone making 75K in rural Georgia.  

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/10/travel/most-expensive-cities-2016/


It's rich, you can like in 49k in a high-cost city (Los Angeles), 200k is rich. People also don't generally get paid 200k in rural Georgia. You can have everything needed in life with 200k, plus much more.

instead of focusing on people who make more than you and why they owe you something in life, perhaps you could try to better your situation, get an education, become accomplished, learn a trade, and pay your own way.  a noble idea.  

People don't owe me anything, a government owes individuals anyone basics rights, such as education, healthcare, food, housing etc.  You do realise how expensive unifees are, it's completely unaffordable. Also that is not mu income, it's the incoe that I grew up with, though I do just more than that, and it's affordable, so 200k is rich.

I also know a trade, thank you very much.

you forgot clothing.

yes I did.

I guess add that to the list of things U.S. taxpayers will never pay for.

US taxpayers wouldn't pay for a lot of things they would never pay for, then they did.

Well, if you are a U.S. citizen, you can keep holding out hope for that.  The rest of us will just buy our own clothes.

As would I.

It's almost like you don't need socialism to get by!

I never said I did, but some level obviously helps, but could do without.

[Shadows]

How will Koch brothers getting 100's of Millions of $ in tax breaks benefit the economy? So that they can spend more in Superpacs ? Even if this so-called uber rich people start a corporation, it will be through debt from Banks/Venture Capital or equity sale & not through the extra savings from a personal tax cut etc.

Do people seriously believe people with 100's of Millions really getting extra money will create jobs? If anything these people have much lower consumption/spending per 100 $ of income (Marginal Propensity to Consume - MPC in Economics) than a low income guy. And Consumption is the key driver of GDP (biggest component), creates demand, jobs, enlarges tax revenue etc!

For economic growth, is is better for 10,000 people to have 1000 $ more money/income than 100 people to have 1M $ more. Isn't the deficit a concern now?

Yes but lets be clear here, you guys don't just want to overtax the Koch brothers, you want to overtax those making $400K, $300K... probably $100K... even if they live in a high cost of living area.

I don't argue about what other people think or Bernie's plans. From an economic perspective, it makes sense to increase taxes on people making above 200/250K a year. 400K is not middle class by an stretch - It is for wealthy folks (you can't compare to Kochs & say X is not wealthy) & if you have to raise revenue then you have to increase taxes on some of these people. Now Bernie or Hillary may not even raise taxes much on these people & someone earning 250-500K may actually get more benefits than the increase in taxes.

And I don't know want to argue about this - Because you are of the opinion "My taxes shouldn't rise" so people above 500K can pay more & people below 50K or 80K shouldn't get more welfare because "My Taxes may rise" again.  Your views are shaped entirely by what happens about your taxes. Tomorrow if are earning 900K a year, you may say it shouldn't increase for anyone earning till 1M etc.

I am talking in general from an overall economical perspective & not an individual's taxes. When you have a view about the economy, it shouldn't be affected by your personal standing.

[Shadows]

How will Koch brothers getting 100's of Millions of $ in tax breaks benefit the economy? So that they can spend more in Superpacs ? Even if this so-called uber rich people start a corporation, it will be through debt from Banks/Venture Capital or equity sale & not through the extra savings from a personal tax cut etc.

Do people seriously believe people with 100's of Millions really getting extra money will create jobs? If anything these people have much lower consumption/spending per 100 $ of income (Marginal Propensity to Consume - MPC in Economics) than a low income guy. And Consumption is the key driver of GDP (biggest component), creates demand, jobs, enlarges tax revenue etc!

For economic growth, is is better for 10,000 people to have 1000 $ more money/income than 100 people to have 1M $ more. Isn't the deficit a concern now?

Yes but lets be clear here, you guys don't just want to overtax the Koch brothers, you want to overtax those making $400K, $300K... probably $100K... even if they live in a high cost of living area.

I don't argue about what other people think or Bernie's plans. From an economic perspective, it makes sense to increase taxes on people making above 200/250K a year. 400K is not middle class by an stretch - It is for wealthy folks (you can't compare to Kochs & say X is not wealthy) & if you have to raise revenue then you have to increase taxes on some of these people. Now Bernie or Hillary may not even raise taxes much on these people & someone earning 250-500K may actually get more benefits than the increase in taxes.

And I don't know want to argue about this - Because you are of the opinion "My taxes shouldn't rise" so people above 500K can pay more & people below 50K or 80K shouldn't get more welfare because "My Taxes may rise" again.  Your views are shaped entirely by what happens about your taxes. Tomorrow if are earning 900K a year, you may say it shouldn't increase for anyone earning till 1M etc.

I am talking in general from an overall economical perspective & not an individual's taxes. When you have a view about the economy, it shouldn't be affected by your personal standing.

And you think many of those advocating for socialism do so without their personal standing being a factor?  I'll note that many of the same people advocating socialism have noted that they make 50K or less a year, which you pointed to as a possible welfare level.

FDR was a very rich person who implemented the New Deal & increased taxes massively. Many Welfare left-leaning economics are pretty rich themselves. I earn pretty good money but my opinions are largely shaped by what I feel is good economics (Who honestly likes paying more in taxes?). Most of my friends work in Wall Street/Some big company & I am saving to retire by the time I am 40 odd.
For Example - My support for Tuition Free College has more to do with K-12 not being a good enough education anymore & my own personal cost of attending an elite institution (Why would I want other people to bear such high costs which I had to?). And I saw how some of my friends who were entrepreneurs at a young age, couldn't focus on the business as they were trying to pay back their high student loans & how everyone is blindly chasing the best paying job. I have years back supported entitlement reform & lower taxes. It is not always the case that people earning less than 50K want to leech off people earning a lot of money !

Anyways can we please not make this thread again of You vs others & stick to the topic - There is no reason to have another fight! People can have differences of opinion !

[Sorenroy]

What happened to all of Non Swing Voter's posts? Did he just delete them or something?

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

What happened to all of Non Swing Voter's posts? Did he just delete them or something?

He deleted all his posts from the last two months

[Sorenroy]

The biggest issue I have with this, and other, similar, Republican policies, is that is clearly favors the already successful. This is especially true when those cuts in taxes end up leading to cuts in programs that help people help themselves become successful.

This is only furthered when you look at the push that conservatives make to keep money, power, and stature between generations. It's kind of frustrating when Republicans describe a multimillionaire's children as "successful" when all they've ever done is hire somebody else to invest Daddy's (or Mommy's) money.

What happened to all of Non Swing Voter's posts? Did he just delete them or something?

He deleted all his posts from the last two months

Not to derail, but why? I go back and delete my kind of spammy posts, but not all of them.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Having a tax code that rewards rich people who are successful at investing would at least be an improvement over having one that rewards rich people who are successful at rent-seeking.