Is doing evil a necessity of life?
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  Is doing evil a necessity of life?
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Author Topic: Is doing evil a necessity of life?  (Read 2532 times)
Greatest I am
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« on: March 28, 2017, 06:32:40 AM »

Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Did the ancients know this and Is that why we are all named as sinners?

I think nature created the potential for evil in each of us because without that potential we would not have the ability to make a free choice between good and evil or evolve to find the fittest human.

Consider. Evolution has two major components that we must do to survive; compete or cooperate, as required. Cooperation we would see as good because it does not create a victim or loser. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim and loser.

From this view, we must do evil and to survive as that process produces the fittest. To not compete would produce the least fit and we would likely go extinct.

Do you see this conundrum of us having to do evil? If you do, should God punish us for doing what we must do so as not to go extinct?

I do not see God as justified in punishing us and that is why Gnostic Christians like me are Universalists.

I see us all as not requiring salvation. God would not do evil by punishing us for doing what we must do to survive and thrive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exsultet
 “O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam”.
 “in the light of paradise, even the sin of Adam may be regarded as truly necessary and a happy fault.”



If sin and doing evil is good and necessary for Adam, who represents all of mankind, then the church and I are suggesting that it is good that we all do evil.

It seems that nature, or God, if you are into the supernatural, ultimately, created a perfect imperfect world. To appreciate perfection, we must know imperfection. This knowledge frees the mind.

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DL
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DavidB.
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« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2017, 08:15:48 AM »

Is posting on this forum a necessity in life?

I do not see you posting on this forum as a necessity in life and that is why Atlas posters like me would rather see you stop posting here.
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2017, 09:08:38 AM »

Is posting on this forum a necessity in life?

I do not see you posting on this forum as a necessity in life and that is why Atlas posters like me would rather see you stop posting here.

Yes. All small minds think that.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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DL
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Nathan
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« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2017, 10:25:59 AM »

I used to think doing evil was inevitable, and got into a really embarrassing argument with a poster called jmfcst about it once. Now, I think it's theoretically possible to get through life without committing major sins, but I still don't think almost anyone actually does (which doesn't absolve people of the sins they actually do commit).
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2017, 12:53:09 PM »

I used to think doing evil was inevitable, and got into a really embarrassing argument with a poster called jmfcst about it once. Now, I think it's theoretically possible to get through life without committing major sins, but I still don't think almost anyone actually does (which doesn't absolve people of the sins they actually do commit).

True. This O.P. was only showing the evil we cannot help but do as we evolve.

It does not speak for intentional harm like promoting homophobia or misogyny. Religious staples.

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DL
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Mopsus
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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2017, 02:49:57 PM »

Who says that competition is evil? Actually, the first time the Bible mentions sin is in the story of Cain and Abel, which isn't about the evil of competition (though the farmer and the shepherd did offer competing sacrifices), but about the evil of being a sore loser.
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2017, 05:48:33 PM »

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I did and showed why in the O.P..

 
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I thought the first sin was thought to be the original sin.

You must red Eden the way the Jews do and see Eden as our place of elevation and not our fall.

Smart move as the Christian take is ridiculous.

To your comment.

Do you see competition creating a victim or loser as evil?

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DL


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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2017, 06:14:59 PM »

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I did and showed why in the O.P..

 
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I thought the first sin was thought to be the original sin.

You must red Eden the way the Jews do and see Eden as our place of elevation and not our fall.

Smart move as the Christian take is ridiculous.

To your comment.

Do you see competition creating a victim or loser as evil?

Regards
DL




Not all of us Christians see Eden that way.
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2017, 06:21:54 PM »

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I did and showed why in the O.P..

 
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I thought the first sin was thought to be the original sin.

You must red Eden the way the Jews do and see Eden as our place of elevation and not our fall.

Smart move as the Christian take is ridiculous.

To your comment.

Do you see competition creating a victim or loser as evil?

Regards
DL




Not all of us Christians see Eden that way.

True. A few have maintained the ability to think intelligently and not just believe ridiculous religious teachings.

Regards
DL

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Mopsus
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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2017, 07:05:16 PM »


I thought the first sin was thought to be the original sin.

That wouldn't make much sense, as Adam and Eve didn't know what sin was when they ate of the tree of knowledge.

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No, because true competition isn't about the wellbeing of the individuals competing, but the wellbeing of the thing competed over. And when competition is fair, failure is an opportunity to better oneself anyway.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2017, 11:34:37 PM »

It is theoretically possible to live life without committing any evil, but the kind of life you need to lead in order to achieve that, aside from being necessarily solitary and miserable, would also prevent you from doing much good. I'm the kind of person who is so afraid of doing evil that he ends up not doing much good, so I should keep that in mind more often.
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2017, 08:34:22 AM »


I thought the first sin was thought to be the original sin.

That wouldn't make much sense, as Adam and Eve didn't know what sin was when they ate of the tree of knowledge.

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No, because true competition isn't about the wellbeing of the individuals competing, but the wellbeing of the thing competed over. And when competition is fair, failure is an opportunity to better oneself anyway.

Most of the bible does not make logical sense. But if we are to discuss it, it will be hard if you only take the parts you like and ignore the rest even as one of the main Christian dogmas is original sin.

I ignore what you put on the wellbeing of the prize of the competition.

The prize in most cases are resources of some kind and those get eaten. That is not wellbeing.

True that the losing competitor gets the opportunity to better himself but if he is at the end of his competence curve, he cannot.

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DL 
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2017, 08:36:29 AM »

It is theoretically possible to live life without committing any evil, but the kind of life you need to lead in order to achieve that, aside from being necessarily solitary and miserable, would also prevent you from doing much good. I'm the kind of person who is so afraid of doing evil that he ends up not doing much good, so I should keep that in mind more often.

Please show how one can go through life without competing and creating victims or losers.

I cannot see how.

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DL
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Mopsus
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« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2017, 10:53:34 AM »
« Edited: March 29, 2017, 10:56:09 AM by Mopsus »

Most of the bible does not make logical sense. But if we are to discuss it, it will be hard if you only take the parts you like and ignore the rest even as one of the main Christian dogmas is original sin.

So now you're saying that the traditional Christian reading of the Bible is 100% accurate? LOL

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Human competition leads to starvation only in rare cases (more often, Mother Nature is to blame). Besides, I'm not talking about competition over resources, but competition over what we do with those resources.
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Enduro
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« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2017, 12:26:38 PM »

And welcome to round three of skipping this board for ~two weeks.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2017, 05:21:23 PM »

It is theoretically possible to live life without committing any evil, but the kind of life you need to lead in order to achieve that, aside from being necessarily solitary and miserable, would also prevent you from doing much good. I'm the kind of person who is so afraid of doing evil that he ends up not doing much good, so I should keep that in mind more often.

Please show how one can go through life without competing and creating victims or losers.

I cannot see how.

The key is reducing interactions with other human beings to an absolute minimum. It's doable, but as I said it's a pretty miserable life and implies foregoing a lot of opportunities to do good.
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Beet
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« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2017, 06:05:46 PM »

Sure it's possible. But how are we defining 'evil'? If it's anything that's selfish and hurtful to others, I would say the definition is too liberal. I suspect that based on what I would call evil, a significant percentage of people make it through life without doing it.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2017, 06:19:33 PM »

     Inevitable, though not necessary per se. With that said, as others have pointed out, nailing down a definition of evil is critical here.
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2017, 03:53:45 PM »

Doing harms and need repentence is a negative effect on our lives. But, we all do it because we feel hurt.

The best thing to do is pray for everyone's happiness and move on with our lives.
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2017, 03:36:41 PM »

Most of the bible does not make logical sense. But if we are to discuss it, it will be hard if you only take the parts you like and ignore the rest even as one of the main Christian dogmas is original sin.

So now you're saying that the traditional Christian reading of the Bible is 100% accurate? LOL

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Human competition leads to starvation only in rare cases (more often, Mother Nature is to blame). Besides, I'm not talking about competition over resources, but competition over what we do with those resources.

Where did I use the word accurate?

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DL
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2017, 03:38:39 PM »

It is theoretically possible to live life without committing any evil, but the kind of life you need to lead in order to achieve that, aside from being necessarily solitary and miserable, would also prevent you from doing much good. I'm the kind of person who is so afraid of doing evil that he ends up not doing much good, so I should keep that in mind more often.

Please show how one can go through life without competing and creating victims or losers.

I cannot see how.

The key is reducing interactions with other human beings to an absolute minimum. It's doable, but as I said it's a pretty miserable life and implies foregoing a lot of opportunities to do good.

You can reduce interactions but must still compete for resources or jobs.

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2017, 03:40:38 PM »

Sure it's possible. But how are we defining 'evil'? If it's anything that's selfish and hurtful to others, I would say the definition is too liberal. I suspect that based on what I would call evil, a significant percentage of people make it through life without doing it.

Define evil whatever way you like but you cannot get away from the fact that we all will do our share.

I showed the definition I was using in the O.P.

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DL
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2017, 03:43:12 PM »

     Inevitable, though not necessary per se. With that said, as others have pointed out, nailing down a definition of evil is critical here.

It is in the O.P.

If not necessary, name any sentient animal that does not do so.

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DL


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Greatest I am
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« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2017, 03:45:05 PM »

Doing harms and need repentence is a negative effect on our lives. But, we all do it because we feel hurt.

The best thing to do is pray for everyone's happiness and move on with our lives.

Pray on the one hand while continuing to compete due to necessity.

Seems like that would be a waste of time and prayer.

Regards
DL
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Mopsus
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« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2017, 03:46:43 PM »
« Edited: April 16, 2017, 04:05:03 PM by Mopsus »


The same place you chided me for not following your traditionalist interpretation of the Fall.
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