Pence Won’t Have Dinner With A Woman Who Isn’t His Wife

[Brittain33]

It's a little weird but whatever. He's not harming anyone and it's his business. Disagree and no.

It may not be immediately obvious, but this behavior is quite damaging to professional women. Imagine if you could not have a confidential meeting with the Vice President or any other business leader who follows this rule because "you might tempt him," but men in the same position have an open door to access. Pence' behavior may seem like it's all about him, but it perpetuates the glass ceiling for women.

[The_Doctor]

He's a married man. Nobody cares as long as he's not treating men and women he meets during the course of his duties. Nor is it unusual. This is how their marriage works. Leave them alone on this issue.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Well that's not a rule with me and Mrs. Grumps, who both routinely need to hang with others of the opposite sex for business purposes, but hey, it's up to the Pence's.   This is so no big deal in my view.

[tik 🪀✨]

I agree with everyone else who thinks it is Good and Noble that the Vice President's marriage is plagued with trust issues.

[Brittain33]

Nobody cares as long as he's not treating men and women he meets during the course of his duties.

Has he said if he's ok meeting with women 1:1 if it's in the course of his work? I missed it.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Nobody cares as long as he's not treating men and women he meets during the course of his duties.

Has he said if he's ok meeting with women 1:1 if it's in the course of his work? I missed it.

B33, here's an early announcement of some of his staff - I'm doubting he won't meet with the women one on one.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/25/vice-president-mike-pence-announces-andrea-thompson-national-security

[angus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8kpYm-6nuE

[Mr. Morden]

Who are all these married people going out for one on one dinners with the opposite sex?

If you're in a profession that requires a fair amount of travel to meet with colleagues in other cities, it happens all the time.

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8kpYm-6nuE

Billy Chrystal's "men and women can't be friends, because men want to have sex with women even if they're not sexually attracted to them" logic is not really based in reality. At least not in my case.

[JA]

I just had some drinks in the city with a longtime female friend who is engaged to a male friend of mine. Would be pretty sad and unnecessary if I couldn't hang out with her anymore after her marriage without her soon-to-be husband being there too. I'd say that if you don't trust each other you shouldn't marry in the first place.

I'm not gonna lie...as liberal as I may be, if my fiance was at the bar having drinks with other men...I would dump her quickly

Why? People of the opposite sex can be friends. What would you do if your partner was bisexual? Would they never be allowed out without you accompanying them?

People of the opposite sex can be friends even if not in a relationship, but there are certain realities about male-female interaction that makes it impossible to become close friends with a woman and not subconsciously want it to turn into a relationship.

... what? My best friend of nearly 3 years is an objectively beautiful woman (and a practicing Muslim) and I don't have any interest in it becoming more than a mere close friendship. Even when I met my girlfriend almost 2 years ago, she knew of my preference for female friends and was alright with it, as was I knowing she talks to and hangs out with male friends of hers alone. She even had a close male friend who'd hang out alone at her house with her. Not to mention she's bi and one of her best friends is her ex girlfriend.

It's called trust. Trusting yourself and trusting each other.

[Shadows]

The comments are hilarious! Do people not have close female friends here or would the relationship have to turn into something sexual everytime? I can't believe someone would stop having dinner with a female friend just because they are committed! It is only a lunch/dinner, a normal event where you eat food & talk - It's not like you eat naked or eat each other!  Women are not sexual creatures .

It is difficult to have close female friends by that ideology. I am not commenting on Pence, he has his own set of weirdo rules but some of the justifications here are weird - "I can't control myself & fall for a girl every hour" or "You will develop a sexual attraction with a girl if you have lunch/dinner". If you become sexually attracted to someone after having a lunch/dinner even when you are committed, that is just flat out cringeworthy !

Damn you wrecked that strawman. Perhaps you could the actual position next time?

Well it is different to say I don't have time to have dinner with another woman because of my marriage & what not. It all depends on how close you are to your friends, who is in the same city, how good your partner goes along with them, the schedule, how many close opposite gender friends you have (I suspect some folks may not even have close friends of the opposite gender) & what not. You may not have the time, someone else may well have it, to each his or her own.

My point about having a gender rule that you can't have lunches or dinners with a friend only because she is female is flat out weird & sexualizing the whole thing, that's a childish way of saying men & women can't be close friends. And your relationship should be strong enough to endure a lunch with a friend!

I have no comment on Pence, he is a religious nutjob & can chose to live his life as he deems fit but some of the comments defending him are flat out hilarious to read !

[Mopsus]

Yes and Yes.

[DavidB.]

I just had some drinks in the city with a longtime female friend who is engaged to a male friend of mine. Would be pretty sad and unnecessary if I couldn't hang out with her anymore after her marriage without her soon-to-be husband being there too. I'd say that if you don't trust each other you shouldn't marry in the first place.

I don't personally think the blanket rule that Pence has is necessary, but it's not my place to judge what works for them.  But, there is something to be said for getting lunch or dinner with someone of the opposite sex (in a social context) at least conveying the question of "is this a date" unless you are both clear otherwise.  It's better to just be clear about these things so no one is misled.

Oh, I agree. It's absolutely fine for a couple to use this as a "rule" if they both feel more comfortable in doing so, that's their business. I also think that if a married woman does meet up with another guy it should be clear that it's not a date. But I personally wouldn't want to be in a relationship like that, where partners can't hang out with others of the sex they are attracted to on a one-on-one basis. Perhaps that's my secular, progressive upbringing in the Netherlands talking.

[DavidB.]

Interesting discussion on the political/cultural divide here, by the way. Unfortunately lots of strawmen in David French's article. Not every person who thinks it's okay for men to hang out with female friends is someone who thinks gender is just a social construction, is on the left, or is an atheist.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

A married man should not be having dinner with another woman, unless that other woman is his sister, daughter, mother, or grand mother, you get the picture.

...

It's obvious Winfield never had any female friends in his entire life.

And it's obvious most of this forum haven't been married

Thankfully I was able to avoid that mistake

[RaphaelDLG]

This isn't unusual for married couples, but obviously there have to be some exceptions for clearly work-related things.

[Virginiá]

Saw this today:

http://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/3/31/15132730/pence-women-alone-rule-graham-discrimination

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Not exactly sure if the same rules apply to the Vice President and his staff, but I'd hope so.

[angus]

I wonder if they had sex:





(Perhaps not, there was a photographer present. )

Hard to say whether Barry is reaching down under the table about to squeeze one off, or just trying to back away slowly.  Given his company, I'd guess it's the latter.  

[Beet]

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Not exactly sure if the same rules apply to the Vice President and his staff, but I'd hope so.

To be fair, by that standard Obama's all-male basketball and golf outings at least early in his administration could fail the test too. The only difference is Obama was never dumb enough to be explicit about his discrimination.

[Virginiá]

To be fair, by that standard Obama's all-male basketball and golf outings at least early in his administration could fail the test too. The only difference is Obama was never dumb enough to be explicit about his discrimination.

I suppose. Were all Obama's games all-male? And still, I'd have to say that given the reasoning and circumstances between the two "rules," I'd venture a guess Obama would break that rule far easier than Pence. Obama could have just had a casual preference for his company whereas Pence's is about fidelity. There is a big difference, imo.

I'm not sure how I feel about this whole thing. On one hand, I can understand the blunt acceptance of human nature, but on the other hand, I also would never want my husband handicapped by those kinds of rules, and I'm not sure I want to be in a relationship where I have to be suspicious of something as simple as dinner with a colleague. Relationships need to have trust, and it shouldn't be dependent on strict rules like this.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I'm not sure how I feel about this whole thing. On one hand, I can understand the blunt acceptance of human nature, but on the other hand, I also would never want my husband handicapped by those kinds of rules, and I'm not sure I want to be in a relationship where I have to be suspicious of something as simple as dinner with a colleague. Relationships need to have trust, and it shouldn't be dependent on strict rules like this.

Nicely stated. 

[publicunofficial]

lol

[Beet]

To be fair, by that standard Obama's all-male basketball and golf outings at least early in his administration could fail the test too. The only difference is Obama was never dumb enough to be explicit about his discrimination.

I suppose. Were all Obama's games all-male? And still, I'd have to say that given the reasoning and circumstances between the two "rules," I'd venture a guess Obama would break that rule far easier than Pence. Obama could have just had a casual preference for his company whereas Pence's is about fidelity. There is a big difference, imo.

Up to August 2016 he played 300 rounds of golf and 297 were all-male. Up to early 2013 he played basketball at least 49 times, and there are no reports of him ever inviting any women, although the latest report from early 2010 said he never had at that time.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Clinton should have lived by the same doctrine, at least while occupying the White House.

[Lincoln Republican]

A married man should not be having dinner with another woman, unless that other woman is his sister, daughter, mother, or grand mother, you get the picture.

...

It's obvious Winfield never had any female friends in his entire life.

Oh how little you know about life my naïve friend, how very, very little.