S2: Rules and Procedure of the Southern Legislature (passed)
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  S2: Rules and Procedure of the Southern Legislature (passed)
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Author Topic: S2: Rules and Procedure of the Southern Legislature (passed)  (Read 4949 times)
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #75 on: April 14, 2017, 02:20:38 PM »

Tell you what, Nev, I'll happily vote for this bill with this added to the end.

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Do we have a deal?
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diptheriadan
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« Reply #76 on: April 14, 2017, 02:22:48 PM »

No. Just no. This deserves far more discussion.
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JustinTimeCuber
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« Reply #77 on: April 14, 2017, 02:30:28 PM »

Tell you what, Nev, I'll happily vote for this bill with this added to the end.

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Do we have a deal?
I object to this amendment.
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Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #78 on: April 14, 2017, 02:31:49 PM »

Well, then. Seems pretty clear to me that these rules are a naked attempt to change the rules in favor of Labor.

Labor needs to play by the same rules as everyone else.
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Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #79 on: April 14, 2017, 02:36:10 PM »

Issues with the bill having had a chance to read through the legislatoin

3.) The Dean of the Chamber is defined as the serving Delegate, who is not the Speaker, with the longest continuous service in the Delegate in his or her present stint of service. For the purposes of this clause, continuous service begins at the moment of swearing-in in the first term of the stint of service.

The clause 'who is not the Speaker' needs to be struck.

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This also needs to be struck. Motions to change the rules should remain unanimous consent.

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Ballots should not be edited. We should take up the federal law in barring edits in ballots cast.
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JustinTimeCuber
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« Reply #80 on: April 14, 2017, 02:39:42 PM »

Well, then. Seems pretty clear to me that these rules are a naked attempt to change the rules in favor of Labor.

Labor needs to play by the same rules as everyone else.
Come back next time with the following ingredients:

  • Two teaspoons of logic
  • 1/8 cup (one ounce) of common sense
Ballots should not be edited. We should take up the federal law in barring edits in ballots cast.
eye iz be triggrd by hasing lotz ov edit too za votez D:
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Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #81 on: April 14, 2017, 02:55:48 PM »

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This all needs to go. This amounts to having no queue at all. I would be happy with an exception for Supply bills (which is common sense). Speaker can request an unanimous motion to put legislation higher up the queue, which if received would be the proper way to do this.

The delegates should not be operating as a restraint on the Speaker. You've inverted the relationship.

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6 is too many.

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In my run the last 4 months prior to now, we had exactly zero bills submitted by citizens who weren't already delegates. There's just not the demand for this.

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With 6 slots? You shouldn't need an emergency thread.

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This is actually contrary to how the delegates has always worked. If your bill is on the order paper it stays there and delegates of the future end up debating it. This is actually a feature and not a bug. People's bills should not die because they got elected out.

You do realize that if Labor were defeated, all of their bills would die?

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Disagree. Sponsors should be able to withdraw legislation at their discretion.

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Again, sponsorship should be taken up by whomever sponsors the bill. We don't 'vote' on Sponsors.  

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This amounts to a curtailment of debate. Debate can have a minimum but not a maximum.

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This already exists. Not needed. Unanimous consent to force cloture is already possible.

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Again, why should sponsorship terminate if someone leaves the delegates? This seems unnecessarily harsh.

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This is a fundamental, fundamental change to the way the delegates works. In essence, all unfriendly amendments would be ignored. How it's always worked is that if someone wants to amend a bill, they can offer the amendment. If that amendment fails, then it is rejected.

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This is a drastic expansion of the powers of a speaker. It is not the job of the delegates to check the speaker.

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Right now we have minimum debate limits. Those are there for a reason.

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I'm actually ok with this, with the amendments of the following.

24-72 hours invoking cloture would require 4 of 5 delegates. Invoking cloture after 336 would require 3 of 5 delegates. It's important that it be an absolute majority of delegates and not, say, 2 to 1.

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Already exists.

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Again, a fundamental change in the delegates. Amendments should be taken up in the order that they are presented regardless of the Speaker's personal feelings towards the amendments.

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This is fine.

4.) The Speaker shall number and track all amendments offered during the course of each Chamber session. These shall be tracked in the “Chamber Noticeboard” thread.

Section VII: Voting

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This isn't how that works now. Veto Overrides are tough enough already.


 
 
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Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #82 on: April 14, 2017, 02:57:49 PM »

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Oppose this. Unanimous consent should be required to suspend the rules. This amounts to an enabling act.

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Umm. Wow. No.

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I'm fine with that - with the proviso that any delegate may take the dispute to the Supreme Court of the South. The delegate must initiate the process.

In short, this bill is a massive expansion of the powers of the Speakership. There is some good in it but a tremendous amount that is bad.

 
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Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #83 on: April 14, 2017, 02:59:34 PM »

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The federal law works well. We should adopt it.
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Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #84 on: April 14, 2017, 03:07:37 PM »

That's what. 23 amendments?
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Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #85 on: April 14, 2017, 03:09:49 PM »

Having gone through all that, this is too big and too complex to be an appropriate emergency bill.

As sponsor of the bill I am going to table this.
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JustinTimeCuber
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« Reply #86 on: April 14, 2017, 04:28:35 PM »
« Edited: April 14, 2017, 04:31:56 PM by Del. JustinTimeCuber »

Having gone through all that, this is too big and too complex to be an appropriate emergency bill.

As sponsor of the bill I am going to table this.
You're not the sponsor.

As Ben has had his time to give his points on my Amendment, I ask for the question on the same.
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diptheriadan
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« Reply #87 on: April 14, 2017, 04:37:30 PM »

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In response to Governor NeverAgain's request - I've decided to sponsor the legislation.
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JustinTimeCuber
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« Reply #88 on: April 14, 2017, 04:46:25 PM »

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In response to Governor NeverAgain's request - I've decided to sponsor the legislation.

He can co-sponsor it, but Nev already sponsored it.
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NeverAgain
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« Reply #89 on: April 14, 2017, 05:16:33 PM »

I used my constitutional right as Governor to sponsor legislation. You were more then welcome to sponsor it as a Delegate, but in the end, it is still sponsored.
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fhtagn
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« Reply #90 on: April 15, 2017, 11:40:10 PM »

No. Just no. This deserves far more discussion.

While I agree that it deserves discussion, if it was really that important to Ben he should have said something in the VERY large gap where there was no discussion going on at all.

It is very clear that he has no intention of getting anything done this session.
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JustinTimeCuber
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« Reply #91 on: April 15, 2017, 11:53:13 PM »

Calling the question on the motion to amend, here's the final text of the amendment:
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and by similarly amending Subsection 4 of the same as follows:
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White Trash
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« Reply #92 on: April 20, 2017, 04:29:18 PM »

Delegate Justin's amendments seem sensible enough.
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fhtagn
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« Reply #93 on: April 23, 2017, 07:45:05 PM »

Since there seems to be no other discussion going on, and I'm taking the last response as a second to Mr. Cuber's motion to amend, I'm going to call a 24 hour vote on this bill, with Mr. Cuber's amendments.
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JustinTimeCuber
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« Reply #94 on: April 23, 2017, 07:53:02 PM »

AYE
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White Trash
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« Reply #95 on: April 23, 2017, 07:59:05 PM »

Aye
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fhtagn
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« Reply #96 on: April 23, 2017, 08:05:08 PM »

Aye
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Chunk Yogurt for President!
CELTICEMPIRE
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« Reply #97 on: April 24, 2017, 06:49:04 AM »

Aye
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fhtagn
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« Reply #98 on: April 24, 2017, 06:55:06 PM »

With a total of 4 votes in favor, 0 against, and 2 who have not voted:

This proposed bill revising the Rules and Procedure of the Southern Legislature passes, with the following amendment:

 
Calling the question on the motion to amend, here's the final text of the amendment:
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and by similarly amending Subsection 4 of the same as follows:
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NeverAgain
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« Reply #99 on: April 24, 2017, 07:26:24 PM »

Wow! Major victory for our legislature! I look forward to seeing the newfound progress these rules will bring to the Chamber!
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