speaking from a military background, I am stunned at the overreaction to this
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  speaking from a military background, I am stunned at the overreaction to this
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Author Topic: speaking from a military background, I am stunned at the overreaction to this  (Read 2103 times)
Inmate Trump
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« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2017, 07:01:44 AM »

I'm worried about Russia's reaction more than anything else. I understand the reasoning and the need to do this, I'm just not sure what it will ultimately come of it.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2017, 07:07:25 AM »

The early statements and reporting on all three counts are not encouraging. And I can almost guarantee that the next couple of weeks of presidential approval polls will not remain below 40%. Turn on any cable network right now and you'll be treated to salivating responses from the likes of Rubio, McCain, Graham, and virtually every media talking heads.
Unless we see continuing military action, this'll be out of the headlines after the Sunday morning news-of-the-week shows. It might bump him a point or two up in the polls, but it'll be a temporary bump.

If we get more action, then being dragged into yet another war will prove a drag on Trump. I'd like to think that even Trump realizes that and will seek to avoid that for that reason alone even tho there are other reasons less personally applicable to avoid a war with Assad.
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Stranger in a strange land
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« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2017, 01:02:13 PM »

The early statements and reporting on all three counts are not encouraging. And I can almost guarantee that the next couple of weeks of presidential approval polls will not remain below 40%. Turn on any cable network right now and you'll be treated to salivating responses from the likes of Rubio, McCain, Graham, and virtually every media talking heads.
Unless we see continuing military action, this'll be out of the headlines after the Sunday morning news-of-the-week shows. It might bump him a point or two up in the polls, but it'll be a temporary bump.

If we get more action, then being dragged into yet another war will prove a drag on Trump. I'd like to think that even Trump realizes that and will seek to avoid that for that reason alone even tho there are other reasons less personally applicable to avoid a war with Assad.

It won't have any kind of long term impact unless mission creep sets in and it becomes a protracted quagmire. After all, how much impact did the Kosovo Intervention or the airstrikes on Sudan and Afghanistan in 1998 or the various actions to enforce the No-Fly Zone against Iraq during that timeframe have on the 2000 Election? Add to that nowadays, the news cycle moves and turns over much more quickly, so these types of events have even less impact. Recall that the Syrian government's earlier chemical attack back in 2013 was washed out of the news cycle within a few days by Miley Cyrus twerking at the VMAs.

However, to the original post, for now, a limited, proportional retaliation is justified. The real danger here is mission creep, that the U.S. gets dragged ever further into the Syrian Civil War. Now, the same risk would exist under President Obama, President Clinton, or President Bush, Rubio, or Cruz, but Trump is uniquely poorly placed to handle it: his staff is riven by internal dissent, he is an amateur who delegates to other amateurs rather than experienced advisors, has no experience with foreign policy or knowledge of how statecraft works, and worst of all, he seems to be influenced by whoever he spoke to last.
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Person Man
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« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2017, 02:45:11 PM »

What the chances that the Neoconservative Bush-Cheney movement were just using the TEA Party and Alt-Right of vehicles to regain power through the greatest kabouki acting ever performed?
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I Won - Get Over It
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« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2017, 02:48:18 PM »
« Edited: April 07, 2017, 02:57:25 PM by I Won - Get Over It »

You gas your people, you get our wrath and our hellfire.




If it is a one-off event warning and if USA proves that Assad indeed used chemical weapons than it was likely a plausible action.

But something tells me that there is only evidence that is only enough for such people as McCain and Co...
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JA
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« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2017, 03:08:35 PM »

I don't support the strike nor do I support any potential escalation. That was something I strongly disliked about Clinton and Obama; they were both more than willing to employ drones and more conventional military tactics to meddle in foreign affairs. That has worked out incredibly well for terrorist recruitment and defense contractors - not so much for Americans and the locals in the places we've intervened.

That Trump supposedly saw images of suffering children and felt compelled to respond strikes me as ridiculous. If he cared so much about Syrians and their welfare he wouldn't have placed them under a travel ban, blocked their refugees from our country, ridiculed Germany for allowing them entrance, and used them as a scapegoat for political purposes. The same applies to McCain and his Neoconservative pals; he had no qualms allowing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children to suffer under the sanctions he supported nor did he have any problem with the Iraq War that cost the lives of over 1,000,000 Iraqis.

Not only that, but al-Assad really had nothing to gain by using a chemical weapon on his citizens. That's not to say he didn't do exactly that, but there should be more of an investigation than has occurred thus far before we start dropping bombs. And on top of that, Trump did not even seek Congressional approval for this strike beforehand. This was an unconstitutional military strike that could've potentially ignited a greater conflict with a country that has not attacked or threatened us and is consumed by a civil war that'd be nothing more than a quagmire for us with no realistic positive outcome.
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Deblano
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« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2017, 03:17:44 PM »

i am absolutely approving his - atm - limited handling of this situation.

but...looooots of left and right "peaceniks" aka people tired of any kind of war and especially the middle east, thought or hoped trump was the opposite to bush/obama and a dove's dove.

What fools.

I on the other hand applaud this move by President Trump.
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2017, 03:56:25 PM »


That Trump supposedly saw images of suffering children and felt compelled to respond strikes me as ridiculous. If he cared so much about Syrians and their welfare he wouldn't have placed them under a travel ban, blocked their refugees from our country, ridiculed Germany for allowing them entrance, and used them as a scapegoat for political purposes.

It's very obvious that Trump is a very visual person at this point. If he didn't see anything - and Syria gets virtually no news coverage - it is hard for him to comprehend just what a refugee is. He heard something on Fox news and repeated it. He's one of the three least intellectually curious leaders in the history of western civilization.
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Person Man
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« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2017, 04:40:53 PM »


That Trump supposedly saw images of suffering children and felt compelled to respond strikes me as ridiculous. If he cared so much about Syrians and their welfare he wouldn't have placed them under a travel ban, blocked their refugees from our country, ridiculed Germany for allowing them entrance, and used them as a scapegoat for political purposes.

It's very obvious that Trump is a very visual person at this point. If he didn't see anything - and Syria gets virtually no news coverage - it is hard for him to comprehend just what a refugee is. He heard something on Fox news and repeated it. He's one of the three least intellectually curious leaders in the history of western civilization.

It is definitely a strange situation. Is he really this "base" or is something else going on?
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Meclazine for Israel
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« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2017, 08:25:55 PM »

As a long time player of Call of Duty....I agree

As a long time player of Battlefield, this was very tame.

I am surprised that Trump does not sell 737 Antarctuca style joy flights to rich people over Syria during the bombing.

"Mom, wow can i drop some bombs on the Syrians as well."
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ProudModerate2
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« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2017, 08:37:29 PM »
« Edited: April 07, 2017, 08:39:26 PM by ProudModerate2 »

Who says this is a "limited" attack ?
A "one time thing" with no additional military confrontation ?
Just showing "them" that we are tough and we will just not sit-back and do nothing.

We will still have US (and other ally planes) flying missions in and around the borders of Syria.
What if Syria shots one of them down with an anti-air missile ?
What if Syria shots one of them down with "borrowed" anti-air hardware belonging to Russia ? (sound familiar).
What if Russia directly shots down one of our military planes ?

This is/was a tough decision to make, don't get me wrong.
But trusting trump to not over-react and conduct himself like a adult, is worrisome.
The guy acts like a narcissistic, childish orange-haired clown.
THIS is what concerns me.
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Person Man
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« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2017, 07:50:56 PM »

Who says this is a "limited" attack ?
A "one time thing" with no additional military confrontation ?
Just showing "them" that we are tough and we will just not sit-back and do nothing.

We will still have US (and other ally planes) flying missions in and around the borders of Syria.
What if Syria shots one of them down with an anti-air missile ?
What if Syria shots one of them down with "borrowed" anti-air hardware belonging to Russia ? (sound familiar).
What if Russia directly shots down one of our military planes ?

This is/was a tough decision to make, don't get me wrong.
But trusting trump to not over-react and conduct himself like a adult, is worrisome.
The guy acts like a narcissistic, childish orange-haired clown.
THIS is what concerns me.

It was a limited strike on one out of 15 or more bases. We could launch hundreds of Tomahawks as well as carrier based strikes if we really wanted to.

Which leads people to believe that this attack was motivated by politics than policy. Assad was out there in that same neighborhood slaughtering kids today.
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rob in cal
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« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2017, 07:52:23 PM »

  I think for non-interventionist purists on the right  any move against Assad represented an escalation and Trumps immediate transformation into Jeb! or W, or Mccain.  Its almost as if he simultaneously repudiated Brexit, called for passage of the Gang of 8 bill, and reappointed Garland to SCOTUS based on the reaction of some out there.
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Devout Centrist
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« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2017, 01:38:28 PM »

I think, at this point, it's pretty clear Trump is wagging the dog
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I spent the winter writing songs about getting better
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« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2017, 09:22:02 PM »

The early statements and reporting on all three counts are not encouraging. And I can almost guarantee that the next couple of weeks of presidential approval polls will not remain below 40%. Turn on any cable network right now and you'll be treated to salivating responses from the likes of Rubio, McCain, Graham, and virtually every media talking heads.

Well per the Gallup tracker at least there's been basically no impact.
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