Do you support the missile strikes on Syria?

[Sumner 1868]

violated a standard that even Pol Pot and Idi Amin dared not violate.

That's... not the way too look at this.

[pbrower2a]

violated a standard that even Pol Pot and Idi Amin dared not violate.

That's... not the way too look at this.

They had other ways of killing, not that those were better. It's hard to distinguish one premeditated murder from another.   The Romans cast Christians to bears, lions, and tigers; Nazi guards entertained themselves on occasion by letting underfed dogs attack helpless prisoners. The juvenile-delinquent culture of the Middle Ages burned witches and broke heretics on the wheel -- or was it the other way around?

The world did nothing to Saddam Hussein for gassing the Kurds. He might have been tried, and likely hanged, for that, but the Iraqi tribunal that convicted and sentenced him to death found him guilty of an earlier, less-well-known atrocity.

[EnglishPete]

I think I'm shifting on this issue again. What's done is done, but there should be no more intervention in Syria. What good can weakening Assad do, now? The sooner he crushes the rebels, the sooner the war is over. That is the humane option at this point... to let evil win. Sad, but it is what it is. Anyway, I don't want Trump starting to see war as the solution to his political problems. That's not the right path.

Don't worry. I'm starting to come to the conclusion that this was all done because there's a peace deal in the pipeline. Russia has expressed outrage at this action but I think that's all Kayfabe. The Russians were given plenty of warning of the attack and it did limited damage. I know the Syrians are saying some people were killed but its possible that even that is a lie designed to make Trump's attack seem genuine.

Trump wants a deal in Syria which involves the defeat of Isis, the end of the war and Assad out of power (thus enabling him to claim a win that eluded Obama). The Russian's want a deal that defeats Isis, brings an end to the war and, crucially, enables them to keep their naval base in Syria). There's a deal to be done but for political reasons Trump can't do this deal without first making some kayfabe 'beef' with Putin over Syria.

Many of the President's supporters (and many of his opponents) are unhappy with this action but by expressing their anger and disappointment they are paying an unwitting part in the kayfabe. Their reaction incourages the establishment Republicans and Democrats in their reaction oh "hurray let's support the President. He made big rockets go boom boom". Trump will need some support from the latter group for a Syrian peace deal. The former will eagerly support such a deal anyway. To get the support of the latter he needs to make them think he's been 'acting tough with Putin'

In the scenario expect more 'beef', maybe more rockets go boom boom, followed by a peace deal where Assad leaves Syria and Russia keeps its Naval base.

In other words for those, like myself, who suspect that the gas attack was a false flag event it looks like President Trump has responded in the most appropriate way. With a false retaliation, followed by false rising tension with Russia. He can be confident that the fake news media won't expose such falseness to a wide audience as exposing fakery means exposing themselves.

[EnglishPete]

Iran's President gave a less than total endorsement of Assad today.

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http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/iran-s-rouhani-wants-chemical-attack-in-syria-investigated/3662574.html

Whilst the Iraqi Shi'ite political/religious leader Moqtada al-Sadr has called on Assaad to step down today

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https://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2017/Apr-08/401179-iraqs-shiite-cleric-sadr-urges-assad-to-step-down.ashx

Looks like things are starting to move into place with Trump's plan for a Syria peace deal

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

violated a standard that even Pol Pot and Idi Amin dared not violate.

That's... not the way too look at this.

I think Pol Pot would have had a lot of use with a can of sarin.

[Person Man]

Too early to tell. Americans may feel good about themselves for doing something against a tyrant who violated a standard that even Pol Pot and Idi Amin dared not violate. We do not yet know whether the strikes were adequate or whether they were reckless or misguided. If the President were someone other than Donald Trump I might not have this misgiving.

Only Donald Trump would do something exactly like this. Bush and Clinton got people on board first and Obama didn't when Congress wouldn't let him.

[Mr.Phips]

Absolutely not.  Syria did nothing to threaten the US.

[ProgressiveCanadian]

Absolutely not.  Syria did nothing to threaten the US.

[ApatheticAustrian]

Absolutely not.  Syria did nothing to threaten the US.

it threatens US allies. that must be worth something.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Absolutely not.  Syria did nothing to threaten the US.

it threatens US allies. that must be worth something.

Yeah. If you do not think that the US should honour its alliances, you should advocate for withdrawing all alliances. Let's see how will the US economy do then.

[ProgressiveCanadian]

Absolutely not.  Syria did nothing to threaten the US.

it threatens US allies. that must be worth something.

Well of course! One of your allies is Saudi Arabia killing hundreds of civilians RIGHT NOW in Yemen. The US supports their oil allies even if they kill innocent civilians. Why does it matter now?

[ApatheticAustrian]

Well of course! One of your allies is Saudi Arabia killing hundreds of civilians RIGHT NOW in Yemen. The US supports their oil allies even if they kill innocent civilians. Why does it matter now?

first of all, SA and iran are waging a proxy war in yemen and iran started it.

second and more important.....the iran-assad-russia axis is a risk for israel.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Absolutely not.  Syria did nothing to threaten the US.

it threatens US allies. that must be worth something.

Yeah. If you do not think that the US should honour its alliances, you should advocate for withdrawing all alliances. Let's see how will the US economy do then.

Let's see how Estonias economy does when half the country is absorbed into Russia or when the Israeli settlers are forcibly expelled. I think you'd have more to worry about then us. American lives are worth more than the economy. These are life and death matters.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Absolutely not.  Syria did nothing to threaten the US.

it threatens US allies. that must be worth something.

Yeah. If you do not think that the US should honour its alliances, you should advocate for withdrawing all alliances. Let's see how will the US economy do then.

I take serious offense with this post. I'm glad to know that most Israeli's don't think like you do, because if they did, I'd support pulling the carpet out from under them. This is now how allies treat the only country keeping the hordes at the gates out.

I'm pro-Israel. I believe in Israel's right to exist, I believe in their right to have nuclear weapons, and I believe that they have the right to what is necessary to ensure the survival of the Jewish state. Even when the UN adopted that resolution against the settlements (which I supported in spirit), I opposed it out of disgust at Obama stabbing Israel in the back. If he wanted to take action on it, he should have done so in 2009, and not in 2016 when Trump was about to take office. It was wrong, repulsive, and shameful to do that over a personal grudge with Netanyahu. But this attitude among a very small slice of Israeli's that America's purpose is solely to protect Israel ever becomes prevalent, than it's time to end it. I'd say the same thing to the South Koreans or the Canadians.

[Person Man]

Absolutely not.  Syria did nothing to threaten the US.

it threatens US allies. that must be worth something.

Yeah. If you do not think that the US should honour its alliances, you should advocate for withdrawing all alliances. Let's see how will the US economy do then.

Let's see how Estonias economy does when half the country is absorbed into Russia or when the Israeli settlers are forcibly expelled. I think you'd have more to worry about then us. American lives are worth more than the economy. These are life and death matters.

And in turn this will ruin our economy.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Absolutely not.  Syria did nothing to threaten the US.

it threatens US allies. that must be worth something.

Yeah. If you do not think that the US should honour its alliances, you should advocate for withdrawing all alliances. Let's see how will the US economy do then.

Let's see how Estonias economy does when half the country is absorbed into Russia or when the Israeli settlers are forcibly expelled. I think you'd have more to worry about then us. American lives are worth more than the economy. These are life and death matters.

And in turn this will ruin our economy.

I'm so glad the price of milk and health insurance matter more to you than the life of a soldier. I'd rather live through the Great Depression and come to the brink of starvation than see more Americans killed. I suppose a lack of respect for human life extends beyond abortion with you people.

[Person Man]

Absolutely not.  Syria did nothing to threaten the US.

it threatens US allies. that must be worth something.

Yeah. If you do not think that the US should honour its alliances, you should advocate for withdrawing all alliances. Let's see how will the US economy do then.

Let's see how Estonias economy does when half the country is absorbed into Russia or when the Israeli settlers are forcibly expelled. I think you'd have more to worry about then us. American lives are worth more than the economy. These are life and death matters.

And in turn this will ruin our economy.

I'm so glad the price of milk and health insurance matter more to you than the life of a soldier. I'd rather live through the Great Depression and come to the brink of starvation than see more Americans killed. I suppose a lack of respect for human life extends beyond abortion with you people.

Using dead soldiers and bringing abortion into this? Are you a scarecrow salesmen? Sad!

[ApatheticAustrian]

may i ask once again, why military types are usually always voting for right-wing types if those are usually even more likely to send them into major wars?

i totally GET sanchez's point, it sometimes just seems, hollow symbolism is more important for many soldiers too than questions of life and death.

[Person Man]

may i ask once again, why military types are usually always voting for right-wing types if those are usually even more likely to send them into major wars?

i totally GET sanchez's point, it sometimes just seems, hollow symbolism is more important for many soldiers too than questions of life and death.

Some have said that they are just soldiers because they can do what they are told, even if they are told to commit crimes. Maybe  this emphasis on bureaucracy and class makes the right more appealing to them? Or it could just be Vietnam is still a major motivator where both Democrats were accused of starting and losing that war.

[SoLongAtlas]

^ to you both, military members will only follow lawful orders. If it's not lawful, it will be questioned or overriden within the CoC. Most military vote for the conservative due to most of it being from the south although there is a large libertarian portion, liberal, etc but the military itself is not political, program favoring, etc aside but brass deal with both parties on those issues. Vietnam has no bearing on most of the modern military mindset, good or bad, although lessons learned have been applied somewhat to COIN.

[Person Man]

^ to you both, military members will only follow lawful orders. If it's not lawful, it will be questioned or overriden within the CoC. Most military vote for the conservative due to most of it being from the south although there is a large libertarian portion, liberal, etc but the military itself is not political, program favoring, etc aside but brass deal with both parties on those issues. Vietnam has no bearing on most of the modern military mindset, good or bad, although lessons learned have been applied somewhat to COIN.

There are some real weirdos down here...should I just attribute it to that, then?
And that most political leanings in the military basic ethnic voting patterns seen in the civilian world, where many southerners join due to the fact that the military provides the best opportunities down there? One of my coworkers who served said something to that affect.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Can we end this misconception that we somehow "lost" the war in Vietnam?

[Person Man]

Can we end this misconception that we somehow "lost" the war in Vietnam?

It is definitely a perception. That is all that matters, really. Short-term, the people who we were killing took over the country there that were were defending. In the long run, we still enjoyed a lot of the economic benefits of Vietnam and are still allowed to go there. Maybe we "lost" the same way the Crusaders technically "lost".

[ProgressiveCanadian]

This war is all about the oil. Russia wants to still sell fossil fuels so they support Assad. The US, Isreal and other European countries want a natural gas pipe to go thru Syria and sell. Follow the money and the oil and you will find your answer. These leaders care about nothing else.

[Ronnie]

This war is all about the oil. Russia wants to still sell fossil fuels so they support Assad. The US, Isreal and other European countries want a natural gas pipe to go thru Syria and sell. Follow the money and the oil and you will find your answer. These leaders care about nothing else.

I would normally disregard this kind of sentiment, but considering we have a president who literally says that we should take the oil, I'm not so sure anymore.