The TrumpCare comes back from the dead (...and lives!) thread

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Some of you guys need to chill with these low-blow attacks. Yes, these Republicans who voted for this are scumbags and I want them to lose their seats and hopefully face their conscience no less than anyone else here. In fact, I already wrote my Congressman who voted for this law a very strongly worded message of condemnation. But hoping their children get chronic conditions? Wanting them to get hit by an ambulance? Come on, you know that's not right.

http://shareblue.com/gop-lawmaker-to-constituents-who-will-die-without-health-care-they-didnt-vote-for-me/

Fck being nice.  People are going to die either way.  It's every man for himself now, remember?

So, become immoral, depraved, and nihilistic like these Republicans? Reject the inherent right of all human beings to basic human dignity (which includes health care)? No thanks. Tell me though, what then separates you from the monster you're fighting?

Well, I've become a lot more tribal lately, mostly from personal circumstances but also because of politics.  My philosophy now is this: you choose poverty, you get to live in poverty.  Don't force other people to share your misery.  My father is dead, I'm disabled, and my mother is disabled.  We were only able to get our healthcare because of Obamacare.  Pardon me if I'm unhappy with the prospect of losing my health insurance because some yahoo in West Virginia doesn't like the blacks.

[The_Doctor]

Some of you guys need to chill with these low-blow attacks. Yes, these Republicans who voted for this are scumbags and I want them to lose their seats and hopefully face their conscience no less than anyone else here. In fact, I already wrote my Congressman who voted for this law a very strongly worded message of condemnation. But hoping their children get chronic conditions? Wanting them to get hit by an ambulance? Come on, you know that's not right.

this

i understand people getting pissed if they or someone they know lose their healthcare insurance but trump voters are getting screwed the most anyway and the right thing to do atm would be to get active and to make sure to communicate who is responsible for doing what and how to stop it,

Don't get mad. That triggers the dopamine in their brains. You have to ask them why they support the bill and defend it. That's when the hemming and hawing begins.

Exactly. Don't put someone in such a reflexively defensive position, because then they simply double-down and refuse to even consider reflection. You want to challenge their thinking; ask questions, challenge their logic, make emotional appeals that'll connect with them. Pure confrontation is like spanking a child because they did something that upset you; it's not going to correct the problem, it only creates more and temporarily makes you feel better.

Also, do not condescend or simply condemn Trump and Republican voters. They made an awful choice for which many of them will be disproportionately negative affected, but they're still human beings deserving of basic human decency, which should include health care. We must engage these voters, challenge them to justify their views (like TD has been saying), and appeal our case. Most won't be convinced, but we only need a minority of them to take back the House, Senate, and majority of state governments, then the White House.

Let me put down my snark for a second. A long and serious post (and I want everyone to read it instead of skipping if you're waiting for a bit of my anti Trump talk it's not coming).

As much fun I get at making Trump people red in rage (and believe me I enjoy it) here's an interesting trend. The longer we get into the Trump WH the more his supporters realize that just beating Hillary wasn't enough and that they need to sustain themselves over 4-8 years. They know that whatever they accomplish they have to defend electorally.

Reagan succeeded in his legacy because he won a mandate twice. His party came out looking better than it started. Bill Clinton's Democratic Party was somewhat successful because of his two terms. The common denominator was that - as it should be - people were better off than what they were eight years prior. In contrast Bush and Carter were abandoned by their parties and disowned. For Trump to succeed in branding the party the country needs to be significantly better off than it was eight years ago. That's one reason this House vote wasn't going to succeed in the Senate.

Over time I've seen a number of Trump supporters here moderate their tone and admit that Trump wasn't perfect. This is a politically educated forum but still I expect it to run ahead of the population by a few years. But realistically they're realising Trump is a con artist. Very few people will defend Trump or the GOP here if pressed. That's because intellectually they can't; their political support is predicated on opposition to x or y, not in favor of z.

So the longer we get away from 2016 and the longer the Republican incumbency lasts the more the faithful in the party become restless and focus more on the ruling party's achievements. We should expect to see even less enthusiastic support for Trump and the GOP by 2018-2019 and definitely by 2021 if they're still in power.

What I've described is why the party in the White House changes every eight years. Congress has also changed parties in the Senate every eight years and in the House 12. (That puts the Democrats on track to win back the White House in 2024, the Senate in 2022 and the House in 2022).

The most important thing to remember is nobody in this forum is among the 1%. The neoliberal experience has hollowed-out a lot of economic strength along the working and middle class and bills like this don't help them. This is the GOP's greatest failure.

Our friends on the Trump Right know this deep down and realize it which is why they rely on the dopamine rush of considering this a bill to repeal ObamaCare rather than considering the costs of the bill.

[Deblano]

Glad that I skipped the last six pages of this thread because the usual suspects were derailing it with their trash-tier trolling.

Anyway... this thing has basically zero chance of passing in the Senate, right?

Seems like it

[The_Doctor]

Glad that I skipped the last six pages of this thread because the usual suspects were derailing it with their trash-tier trolling.

Anyway... this thing has basically zero chance of passing in the Senate, right?

We don't know. Also you proved my point in my lengthy missive.

[Deblano]

Some of you guys need to chill with these low-blow attacks. Yes, these Republicans who voted for this are scumbags and I want them to lose their seats and hopefully face their conscience no less than anyone else here. In fact, I already wrote my Congressman who voted for this law a very strongly worded message of condemnation. But hoping their children get chronic conditions? Wanting them to get hit by an ambulance? Come on, you know that's not right.

I mean sure but more importantly Republicnans need to chill with these low-blow attacks on people's healthcare.

Well, obviously. But you don't win by adopting their inhumane values, do you?

As 2016 showed, you don't win by playing nice and above the fray.

If militancy, radicalism, and sociapthy is the solution for our political troubles, than we deserve to let the American experiment collapse.

[Joe Biden is your president. Deal with it.]

What are the chances of this passing the senate?

[ApatheticAustrian]

Glad that I skipped the last six pages of this thread because the usual suspects were derailing it with their trash-tier trolling.

Anyway... this thing has basically zero chance of passing in the Senate, right?

senate makes its own bill....just can't get my head around how to fuse them.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Reporting my posts isn't gonna change my mind.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Issa and 6 other California reps just signed their death warrants for 2018

[heatcharger]

CNN's coverage on this has been terrible.

Glad that I skipped the last six pages of this thread because the usual suspects were derailing it with their trash-tier trolling.

Anyway... this thing has basically zero chance of passing in the Senate, right?

[JA]

Some of you guys need to chill with these low-blow attacks. Yes, these Republicans who voted for this are scumbags and I want them to lose their seats and hopefully face their conscience no less than anyone else here. In fact, I already wrote my Congressman who voted for this law a very strongly worded message of condemnation. But hoping their children get chronic conditions? Wanting them to get hit by an ambulance? Come on, you know that's not right.

http://shareblue.com/gop-lawmaker-to-constituents-who-will-die-without-health-care-they-didnt-vote-for-me/

Fck being nice.  People are going to die either way.  It's every man for himself now, remember?

So, become immoral, depraved, and nihilistic like these Republicans? Reject the inherent right of all human beings to basic human dignity (which includes health care)? No thanks. Tell me though, what then separates you from the monster you're fighting?

Well, I've become a lot more tribal lately, mostly from personal circumstances but also because of politics.  My philosophy now is this: you choose poverty, you get to live in poverty.  Don't force other people to share your misery.  My father is dead, I'm disabled, and my mother is disabled.  We were only able to get our healthcare because of Obamacare.  Pardon me if I'm unhappy with the prospect of losing my health insurance because some yahoo in West Virginia doesn't like the blacks.

Trust me, I understand why you're so upset. My father died in December, my mother is fighting for disability due to chronic health conditions, and we've lived in poverty my entire life. Most of our family, including my deceased father, voted for Trump enthusiastically or support Republicans, primarily because of abortion, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia, and racism. They support Trump despite believing in universal healthcare, higher minimum wage, and a stronger social safety net. I hear it frequently and have to see it on my fb feed regularly. My county voted only 31% for Clinton. I'm surrounded by Republicans and Trump supporters.

If this passes, my chronically ill mother could likely be denied healthcare. Due to Rick Scott being our governor, she had no access to Medicaid expansion that she would've otherwise received. So, I know how incredibly frustrating all of this is. But if we start thinking like them by denying anyone basic human decency, then we become no better than them. This isn't a game of "being better than them costs elections," which may or may not true (I doubt it is), but that's supposed to be a fundamental part of our philosophy and politics. Fight them like hell politically, but don't start thinking of people in terms of they do or don't deserve something because of their politics or wealth or anything else; they deserve decency, which includes healthcare, because they're human beings.

[The_Doctor]

Reporting my posts isn't gonna change my mind.

You getting mad is what Krazen and Klartext want. It settles the debate in their minds; if they had to debate the bill with you and you asked (as should every opponent of the bill) to defend it, they would basically be crickets.

I've never had more than 3 reported posts despite being extremely snarky and acerbic (which kind of stuns me). The last reported post was like several months ago or more. And I can be extremely rude, lol.

[krazen1211]

Why the heck is the GOP putting Trumpcare over Trump Tax cuts.

Budget reconciliation instructions for this year were passed in January to use 2017 on health care.

Link

Taxes will come for 2018.

[mvd10]

Some of you guys need to chill with these low-blow attacks. Yes, these Republicans who voted for this are scumbags and I want them to lose their seats and hopefully face their conscience no less than anyone else here. In fact, I already wrote my Congressman who voted for this law a very strongly worded message of condemnation. But hoping their children get chronic conditions? Wanting them to get hit by an ambulance? Come on, you know that's not right.

Republicans have repeatedly shown their sense of compassion is only activated if they or someone they care about struggles with the issue at hand. It takes their children coming out as gay to treat gay people with any sense of respect. It takes years of torture in a Vietnam PoW camp to realize that torturing our enemies not is bad. So yes, I absolutely hope Jason's Chaffetz's kids all have to be put into iron lungs.

Because it's the fault of those kids that Chaffetz is a coward? More dead people aren't going to make the situation better.

Ironic coming from the biggest supporter of Israel's treatment of Palestinian children.

I have never posted anything about Israel on this forum. You probably are confusing me with DavidB.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Please, someone lecture me again about how these people only voted for Trump because of "economic anxiety" or some bullsht.  Now of course most poor people of color didn't reach the same conclusions as their white compatriots when they voted last November, but please, tell me how I'm wrong and that these people aren't deplorable!

I am done apologizing for these people.  In the past I've been very critical of Democrats who've given these voters the shaft by ignoring or insulting them.  I don't hate Middle America.  If anything, it's probably liberal cities that I dislike the most because of, well, lifestyle and cultural differences.  But if there's one thing I hate more than elitism, it's stupidity.  When it affects me and my family, it becomes personal.

[publicunofficial]

Some of you guys need to chill with these low-blow attacks. Yes, these Republicans who voted for this are scumbags and I want them to lose their seats and hopefully face their conscience no less than anyone else here. In fact, I already wrote my Congressman who voted for this law a very strongly worded message of condemnation. But hoping their children get chronic conditions? Wanting them to get hit by an ambulance? Come on, you know that's not right.

Republicans have repeatedly shown their sense of compassion is only activated if they or someone they care about struggles with the issue at hand. It takes their children coming out as gay to treat gay people with any sense of respect. It takes years of torture in a Vietnam PoW camp to realize that torturing our enemies not is bad. So yes, I absolutely hope Jason's Chaffetz's kids all have to be put into iron lungs.

Because it's the fault of those kids that Chaffetz is a coward? More dead people aren't going to make the situation better.

Ironic coming from the biggest supporter of Israel's treatment of Palestinian children.

I have never posted anything about Israel on this forum. You probably are confusing me with DavidB.

Damn, you are correct. Reported for impersonating DavidB., how dare you trick me.

[JohnCA246]

Some of you guys need to chill with these low-blow attacks. Yes, these Republicans who voted for this are scumbags and I want them to lose their seats and hopefully face their conscience no less than anyone else here. In fact, I already wrote my Congressman who voted for this law a very strongly worded message of condemnation. But hoping their children get chronic conditions? Wanting them to get hit by an ambulance? Come on, you know that's not right.

http://shareblue.com/gop-lawmaker-to-constituents-who-will-die-without-health-care-they-didnt-vote-for-me/

Fck being nice.  People are going to die either way.  It's every man for himself now, remember?

So, become immoral, depraved, and nihilistic like these Republicans? Reject the inherent right of all human beings to basic human dignity (which includes health care)? No thanks. Tell me though, what then separates you from the monster you're fighting?

Well, I've become a lot more tribal lately, mostly from personal circumstances but also because of politics.  My philosophy now is this: you choose poverty, you get to live in poverty.  Don't force other people to share your misery.  My father is dead, I'm disabled, and my mother is disabled.  We were only able to get our healthcare because of Obamacare.  Pardon me if I'm unhappy with the prospect of losing my health insurance because some yahoo in West Virginia doesn't like the blacks.

Trust me, I understand why you're so upset. My father died in December, my mother is fighting for disability due to chronic health conditions, and we've lived in poverty my entire life. Most of our family, including my deceased father, voted for Trump enthusiastically or support Republicans, primarily because of abortion, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia, and racism. They support Trump despite believing in universal healthcare, higher minimum wage, and a stronger social safety net. I hear it frequently and have to see it on my fb feed regularly. My county voted only 31% for Clinton. I'm surrounded by Republicans and Trump supporters.

If this passes, my chronically ill mother could likely be denied healthcare. Due to Rick Scott being our governor, she had no access to Medicaid expansion that she would've otherwise received. So, I know how incredibly frustrating all of this is. But if we start thinking like them by denying anyone basic human decency, then we become no better than them. This isn't a game of "being better than them costs elections," which may or may not true (I doubt it is), but that's supposed to be a fundamental part of our philosophy and politics. Fight them like hell politically, but don't start thinking of people in terms of they do or don't deserve something because of their politics or wealth or anything else; they deserve decency, which includes healthcare, because they're human beings.

[mvd10]

Some of you guys need to chill with these low-blow attacks. Yes, these Republicans who voted for this are scumbags and I want them to lose their seats and hopefully face their conscience no less than anyone else here. In fact, I already wrote my Congressman who voted for this law a very strongly worded message of condemnation. But hoping their children get chronic conditions? Wanting them to get hit by an ambulance? Come on, you know that's not right.

Republicans have repeatedly shown their sense of compassion is only activated if they or someone they care about struggles with the issue at hand. It takes their children coming out as gay to treat gay people with any sense of respect. It takes years of torture in a Vietnam PoW camp to realize that torturing our enemies not is bad. So yes, I absolutely hope Jason's Chaffetz's kids all have to be put into iron lungs.

Because it's the fault of those kids that Chaffetz is a coward? More dead people aren't going to make the situation better.

Ironic coming from the biggest supporter of Israel's treatment of Palestinian children.

I have never posted anything about Israel on this forum. You probably are confusing me with DavidB.

Damn, you are correct. Reported for impersonating DavidB., how dare you trick me.

Reported for confusing me with DavidB. I'm much sexier. And blue is much nicer than orange.

[I Won - Get Over It]

When will CBO release a new report?
It will be a massacre.

Glad that I skipped the last six pages of this thread because the usual suspects were derailing it with their trash-tier trolling.

Anyway... this thing has basically zero chance of passing in the Senate, right?

senate makes its own bill....just can't get my head around how to fuse them.

Yeah, I don't see Murkowski, Collins and Heller voting for this. There will probably be even more defections.

I don't understands how it it supposed to work (according to GOP)?

Will Senate make a completely new, "moderate" bill with ok CBO-score that they will send back to house? Why would house vote for it? Is it realistic?

Because if they fail, why even git it a try? It does not make any sense


Can Trump/Senate "back off" in exchange for D-cooperation on taxes/wall? Totally unrealistic?

[Virginiá]

Will Senate make a completely new, "moderate" bill with ok CBO-score that they will send back to house? Why would house vote for it? Is it realistic?

What would be a 'moderate' GOP healthcare reform bill even look like at this point? A big part of the reason their 'reform' ideas are awful is because Democrats already took the best ideas from conservatives and put them into the ACA. Whether or not Republicans want to admit it, ObamaCare is their type of reform (although ideally I'm sure conservatives would prefer no reform at all). Everything else they've proposed is either marginal changes or straight up extremist garbage.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Some of you guys need to chill with these low-blow attacks. Yes, these Republicans who voted for this are scumbags and I want them to lose their seats and hopefully face their conscience no less than anyone else here. In fact, I already wrote my Congressman who voted for this law a very strongly worded message of condemnation. But hoping their children get chronic conditions? Wanting them to get hit by an ambulance? Come on, you know that's not right.

http://shareblue.com/gop-lawmaker-to-constituents-who-will-die-without-health-care-they-didnt-vote-for-me/

Fck being nice.  People are going to die either way.  It's every man for himself now, remember?

So, become immoral, depraved, and nihilistic like these Republicans? Reject the inherent right of all human beings to basic human dignity (which includes health care)? No thanks. Tell me though, what then separates you from the monster you're fighting?

Well, I've become a lot more tribal lately, mostly from personal circumstances but also because of politics.  My philosophy now is this: you choose poverty, you get to live in poverty.  Don't force other people to share your misery.  My father is dead, I'm disabled, and my mother is disabled.  We were only able to get our healthcare because of Obamacare.  Pardon me if I'm unhappy with the prospect of losing my health insurance because some yahoo in West Virginia doesn't like the blacks.

Trust me, I understand why you're so upset. My father died in December, my mother is fighting for disability due to chronic health conditions, and we've lived in poverty my entire life. Most of our family, including my deceased father, voted for Trump enthusiastically or support Republicans, primarily because of abortion, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia, and racism. They support Trump despite believing in universal healthcare, higher minimum wage, and a stronger social safety net. I hear it frequently and have to see it on my fb feed regularly. My county voted only 31% for Clinton. I'm surrounded by Republicans and Trump supporters.

If this passes, my chronically ill mother could likely be denied healthcare. Due to Rick Scott being our governor, she had no access to Medicaid expansion that she would've otherwise received. So, I know how incredibly frustrating all of this is. But if we start thinking like them by denying anyone basic human decency, then we become no better than them. This isn't a game of "being better than them costs elections," which may or may not true (I doubt it is), but that's supposed to be a fundamental part of our philosophy and politics. Fight them like hell politically, but don't start thinking of people in terms of they do or don't deserve something because of their politics or wealth or anything else; they deserve decency, which includes healthcare, because they're human beings.

I do know you've been dealing with a lot of hurdles in your personal life as well, and I truly empathize.  I know I'm coming across as combative and spiteful here and that's because I never know where I'm going to be two weeks down the line nevermind six months, whether it's health insurance or anything else really.  I won't use this thread to vent and I'll probably regret a good portion of what I said when I'm of sounder mind.  I will say that I think a lot of these people don't want health insurance given to them by a black man.  If someone supports Trump despite being for UHC and real economic populism, I have a harder time sympathizing for them than I would if they actually did support his agenda.  Politics is a sport centered around stabbing other people in the back.  It is inherently tribal.  The country is divided at levels not seen since the Civil War, only instead of the haves and the have-nots it's the have-nots screwing over other have-nots by how they vote.  Our society is more concerned about placating these individuals than telling them they are wrong.  After a while, it gets old.

[The_Doctor]

What I want to know is what the Senate will do with preexisting conditions and the Medicaid expansion. I think they could get away with everything in the House vote except those two factors.

[ApatheticAustrian]

KY GOP Sen Paul on Fox. Says GOPers voted to pay taxpayer money to insurance companies.
https://twitter.com/ChadPergram/status/860233627245924352

[mvd10]

KY GOP Sen Paul on Fox. Says GOPers voted to pay taxpayer money to insurance companies.
https://twitter.com/ChadPergram/status/860233627245924352

And that's one down. I suppose the other purists (Cruz and Lee) also are going to vote against it. If you please them you lose people like Portman and Collins. It's probably going to die in the senate. But atleast Ryan can claim the failure wasn't his fault. I suppose that was the whole idea behind it.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I believe Portman already went on record as a "No"