The TrumpCare comes back from the dead (...and lives!) thread

[ApatheticAustrian]

Rep. Tom MacArthur has resigned his leadership post from the Tuesday Group due to the divisions among its members regarding the AHCA.

...is this good or bad for the bill's prospects?

doesn't matter but underlines that the "moderates" have screwed this up and are split.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Anti-abortion provisions in tax credits may not allow AHCA to be considered under reconciliation:

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[Obama-Biden Democrat]

Anti-abortion provisions in tax credits may not allow AHCA to be considered under reconciliation:

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Beautiful! 23 million Americans will be dancing in the streets.

[GeorgiaModerate]

This anti-AHCA ad...wow.  https://twitter.com/jonfavs/status/872919311052029952

[senyor_brownbear]

I'm still really unclear on what requires 50 votes and what requires 60.

Say Republicans pass AHCA or the Senate's version of it by the 50 vote threshold.

When Democrats are in power again, can they "reconstruct" Obamacare back to what it was using a 50 vote threshold?

[Blue3]

This anti-AHCA ad...wow.  https://twitter.com/jonfavs/status/872919311052029952

How do you go to the youtube link?

[Indy Texas]

I'm still really unclear on what requires 50 votes and what requires 60.

Say Republicans pass AHCA or the Senate's version of it by the 50 vote threshold.

When Democrats are in power again, can they "reconstruct" Obamacare back to what it was using a 50 vote threshold?

Only if such a reconstruction met the criteria for being done through reconciliation.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Anti-abortion provisions in tax credits may not allow AHCA to be considered under reconciliation:

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Beautiful! 23 million Americans will be dancing in the streets.

Hahahahahahaha that's amazing.

[Angel of Death]

This anti-AHCA ad...wow.  https://twitter.com/jonfavs/status/872919311052029952

How do you go to the youtube link?

The video in that tweet was uploaded to Twitter itself, but the previous tweet has a link to a website showing the same clip as an embedded YouTube-video, whose page you can get to in various ways.

[Yank2133]

AHCA will be brough to a floor vote at the end of June. Murkowski and Collins are against it. Heller has signaled he's for it even after lying his ass off about saving Medicaid and PP.

AHCA will probably pass with that smug manlet Pence breaking the tie.

If that is true, then the bill is dead since Paul is against it as well.

[7,052,770]

I have no faith in Congress whatsoever to fail this. They'll let 2 vote no for show and somehow get the other 50 to go along with it.

[Virginiá]

At this point, if Republicans want to give away their majorities over a awful healthcare bill that will strip the coverage or raise the premiums of tens of millions of people, then that is on them. They will have to suffer through a backlash and in the end, they just make it easier for Democrats to enact more substantial reforms that people actually want.

[7,052,770]

At this point, if Republicans want to give away their majorities over a awful healthcare bill that will strip the coverage or raise the premiums of tens of millions of people, then that is on them. They will have to suffer through a backlash and in the end, they just make it easier for Democrats to enact more substantial reforms that people actually want.

I'm not comforted by trading millions of people suffering right away for Republicans probably (but no guarantees) suffering in 2018/2020.

[Antonio the Sixth]

It's annoying when Atlas conventional wisdom seems to suddenly shift without any indication as to why. Have people posting here read anything suggesting that the bill's chances are higher than they were before, or just engaging in random speculation?

[Shadows]

I have no faith in Congress whatsoever to fail this. They'll let 2 vote no for show and somehow get the other 50 to go along with it.

This is my position as well. You just simply can never trust Republicans to do the right thing on health care. Not a single Republican voted for Medicare in 1965 and not a single one voted for ACA.

This is why Obama should have passed a public option. It would of made ACA untouchable.

Voting results on LBJ's Social Security Expansion to create Medicare/Medicaid

House  -
Yes - 237 Dems, 70 GOP
No - 48 Dems, 68 GOP

Senate -
Yes - 57 Dems, 13 GOP
No - 6 Dems, 17 GOP


The Republican party was not an extreme radical party then. Filibuster is ridiculous if you have such huge ideological disparities !

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/89-1965/h97
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/89-1965/s174

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I think we've lost the point that the Senate is in fact still writing its own bill rather than ramming through the House AHCA. Even though both versions are or will be unbelievably underhanded and cruel, any differences will have to be voted on in the House again.

[Virginiá]

Lowlife McConnell won't even meet with patient advocacy groups who are basically begging him not to pass this bill:

I suppose he doesn't want to give them or anyone else any leg to stand on in criticizing the bill, and he probably figures it is a waste of time since he knows he won't consider what they ask. Republicans are diligently doing their work representing their constituents, except that their constituents in this case are mostly wealthy people and various corporations.

I think we've lost the point that the Senate is in fact still writing its own bill rather than ramming through the House AHCA. Even though both versions are or will be unbelievably underhanded and cruel, any differences will have to be voted on in the House again.

It still makes me nervous. First I didn't think they could possibly agree on anything in the House, then I thought certain things would definitely be off the table in the Senate (such as Medicaid expansion), but now a slow phaseout, by some reports, actually does seem possible. It's very scary, and we are creeping closer to some sort of destructive bill being passed.

[mvd10]

At this point, if Republicans want to give away their majorities over a awful healthcare bill that will strip the coverage or raise the premiums of tens of millions of people, then that is on them. They will have to suffer through a backlash and in the end, they just make it easier for Democrats to enact more substantial reforms that people actually want.

People don't want single-payer though. Perhaps the polls show that they are in favor but I doubt most Americans know what single-payer would mean. Once the Democrats actually try something like single-payer all hell will break loose and the backlash will be much worse than Obamacare. There are many people without healthcare in the US (which is terrible) but there also are many middle-class people with decent coverage, and they really don't want the government to touch their healthcare (even though some of their fears may be ungrounded). And look at what happened with the single-payer proposal in Colorado. Healthcare reform just is extremely difficult and whichever side tries to do it basically is doomed to lose a lot of seats.

I've repeatedly said that a lot of Dems are too focused on single-payer. Single-payer isn't the goal, universal coverage is the goal. The best way probably is just to give people a huge refundable tax credit/subsidy if they purchase coverage, paid for by a VAT/national sales or other tax hikes and getting rid of the deduction for employer-sponsored healthcare. Or do something like the Swiss model. The individual mandate will be necessary in any case though.

But I completely agree that the GOP bill is complete suicide (and really cruel). Honestly, they should just get rid of some Obamacare regulations (like the employer mandate) and call it a victory. And if they really cared about reducing premiums they would to replace the employer-sponsored healthcare tax exclusion with a flat credit or flat deduction for anyone purchasing coverage. The main problem with American healthcare is the tax preference for employer-sponsored healthcare which drives up healthcare costs because it gives people incentives to buy inefficient and expensive coverage. Sure, trying to reform it would be suicide, but it's not like AHCA isn't suicide. And they still have their majorites till January 2019 which should be enough time to do the things they really care about (tax reform).

[Virginiá]

People don't want single-payer though. Perhaps the polls show that they are in favor but I doubt most Americans know what single-payer would mean. Once the Democrats actually try something like single-payer all hell will break loose and the backlash will be much worse than Obamacare. There are many people without healthcare in the US (which is terrible) but there also are many middle-class people with decent coverage, and they really don't want the government to touch their healthcare (even though some of their fears may be ungrounded). And look at what happened with the single-payer proposal in Colorado. Healthcare reform just is extremely difficult and whichever side tries to do it basically is doomed to lose a lot of seats.

You don't have to nationalize healthcare or take away the idea of private insurance. I'd be fine with a public option, although some peoples idea of a viable public option isn't the same as mine, but I digress.

Part of the problem with Obama doing PPACA when he did was that a huge part of the electorate is/was still primed against dramatic (perceived or not) expansions of social programs. As it so happened, older voters who still embraced the Reagan era broke from Obama and Democrats quite rapidly. I suspect once most of these voters are gone, there won't be quite the same potential for a backlash. This is why I was talking about the GOP further ruining healthcare in this country - they are just priming the electorate to accept broad change. It's difficult to switch to such a system when people are largely satisfied, but when people are losing healthcare left and right and others' premiums are skyrocketing, it becomes a lot easier.

I suspect America will never get to the kind of system I truly want, but subsidies are just not going to cut it for people in the long run. Especially as conservative ideas continue to ignore the price gouging of the healthcare industry.

[Mr.Phips]

Muh moderates will save us

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Of course she is.  

[Brittain33]

I can just hear her a annoying trembling voice right now "Iii aaam oopen toooo phaaasinggg ooutt mmeeedicareee ooverrr sssevennnn yearssss".

You're aware that's a medical condition she has?

[Mr.Phips]

I can just hear her a annoying trembling voice right now "Iii aaam oopen toooo phaaasinggg ooutt mmeeedicareee ooverrr sssevennnn yearssss".

You're aware that's a medical condition she has?

That I did not know.

[Mr.Phips]

I can just hear her a annoying trembling voice right now "Iii aaam oopen toooo phaaasinggg ooutt mmeeedicareee ooverrr sssevennnn yearssss".

You're aware that's a medical condition she has?

Why be empathetic about the medical conditions of a woman whose about to send 23 million people off of health care?

My thoughts too, but I did delete that since it's probably not in the best taste if she indeed does have a condition.

But seriously, her whole fake moderate routine is just too predictable at this point.

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

I can just hear her a annoying trembling voice right now "Iii aaam oopen toooo phaaasinggg ooutt mmeeedicareee ooverrr sssevennnn yearssss".

You're aware that's a medical condition she has?

Why be empathetic about the medical conditions of a woman whose about to send 23 million people off of health care?

My thoughts too, but I did delete that since it's probably not in the best taste if she indeed does have a condition.

But seriously, her whole fake moderate routine is just too predictable at this point.

If this disgrace passes the Senate 50-50, and Susan Collins votes for it, then Maine's odd obsession with Republican faux moderates is the cause for 23 million losing their health care.

[Person Man]

I can just hear her a annoying trembling voice right now "Iii aaam oopen toooo phaaasinggg ooutt mmeeedicareee ooverrr sssevennnn yearssss".

You're aware that's a medical condition she has?

Why be empathetic about the medical conditions of a woman whose about to send 23 million people off of health care?

My thoughts too, but I did delete that since it's probably not in the best taste if she indeed does have a condition.

But seriously, her whole fake moderate routine is just too predictable at this point.

If this disgrace passes the Senate 50-50, and Susan Collins votes for it, then Maine's odd obsession with Republican faux moderates is the cause for 23 million losing their health care.

Hopefully, she gets a decent challenger from there.