The TrumpCare comes back from the dead (...and lives!) thread

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Trump Toys With Sabotaging Obamacare To Bring Dems To The Table On Repealing It

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"I don't want anybody to get hurt.  Just do as I say, and nobody's gonna get hurt."

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

A bill that passes by single digits in the House has no chance in the Senate.  I'm sure Quist and Ossoff appreciate the momentum boost, though!

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Why are people voting yes for this? Seriously. Has any benefit been publicized that people accept as, well, a benefit? To anyone?

Obviously Obamacare supporters like myself and (presumably) you aren't the audience they're trying to appeal to here. They're appealing to Obamacare haters and Obamacare haters only.

Sure, but even so...what is the carrot for Obamacare haters other than It's Not Obamacare?

Murdering people who vote Democrat.

Even /pol/ is supporting this because they know people are going to die if it passes.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

If ACA can only being replaced with a simple majority....then couldn't you technically replace AHCA with Single payer with just a simple 51 votes in the Senate as well?

There might be some parliamentary issues with it but I don't know per se. The AHCA is on the books for just ten years if it passes because reconciliation is a temporary tool rather than designed to pass major laws. The Bush tax cuts were passed but Obama significantly altered them because of the ten year issue.

I would assume that we might revert to the ACA in ten years actually if these things expire? I don't know how it would work but I do know the entire thing has a sunset I believe.

No, because the ACA was also passed by reconciliation and would have to be voted on again by Congress, I believe.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

If ACA can only being replaced with a simple majority....then couldn't you technically replace AHCA with Single payer with just a simple 51 votes in the Senate as well?

There might be some parliamentary issues with it but I don't know per se. The AHCA is on the books for just ten years if it passes because reconciliation is a temporary tool rather than designed to pass major laws. The Bush tax cuts were passed but Obama significantly altered them because of the ten year issue.

I would assume that we might revert to the ACA in ten years actually if these things expire? I don't know how it would work but I do know the entire thing has a sunset I believe.

No, because the ACA was also passed by reconciliation and would have to be voted on again by Congress, I believe.

No it passed with 60 votes right before Brown was seated as Massachusetts' Senator. It's permanent law while the AHCA isn't. Reconciliation wasn't used to pass it. That's why it has all these regulations the GOP can't repeal.

Reconciliation doesn't mean that entire acts are repealed after ten years but rather alterations within the tax code enacted by the legislation must expire after ten years in order to meet the Senate's requirements and not be deemed ineligible for the process.

Also, the ACA itself was not passed through reconciliation but rather the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act.

...Oh geez, I completely misremembered how Obamacare was passed.  The reconciliation bill made only minor budgetary changes.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

A few questions for any people supporting this bill: if a report comes out showing that thousands of people will die annually if this bill is made law, would you still support it?  Are we really at the point where we're willing to cause people's deaths for the sake of scoring political points or trophies?  And if you are, do you ever feel the slightest amount of guilt that you are willing to see loss of human lives so that your party can feel good about itself?

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

... [Deleted by Torie]

Thanks for 2018, Pubs.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

This is just the beginning of the winning!

Hopefully we can build the wall, ban abortion, ban gay marriage, deport all the illegals and get rid of the anchors babies! USA!

Go do your homework, little boy.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Let's just hope that the people who die in the next few years are disproportionately Trump voters instead of people who didn't vote for any of this.

Thanks for 2018, Pubs.

nana, don't get nasty, trump voters have had pretty hard lives to start with and are getting screwed the most now anyway, in places lik AK/WV, etc.....no need to wish for deaths.

No, fck them.  Let natural selection run its course and purge the sick degenerates in this country.  I didn't vote for this.  Why should I lose my healthcare instead of some yahoo who perpetually votes themselves into poverty?

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

FTR only reason I'm freaking out about this now is that I get my health insurance from Obamacare.  (Plus I literally just woke up and I'm on lots of pills right now because of my sleeping issues.)  At least I get to go on Medicaid if worst comes to worst, so I'll be living off of krazen's sweet, sweet tax dollars if it all comes down to it.  North Carolina is unlikely to opt out unless the legislature were to force an opt-out.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

  North Carolina is unlikely to opt out unless the legislature were to force an opt-out.

can they do it without cooper?`

and sorry for nagging about this, but since it disturbed me....is it possible to broaden the concept of reconciliaton enough to get this through the senate with 50 votes?

IIRC they have veto-proof majorities in both houses.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

GOP lawmaker to constituents who will die without health care: They didn’t vote for me

Told you.  They know this is going to kill people.

But no, it's my post that's offensive.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

AMA says that despite changes, new bill would still cost millions coverage and strip protections for preexisting conditions:

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

believe me, issa knows what he is doing.

Getting ready for retirement?

So Portman, Heller, and Capito have major issues with the bill in the Senate. That, combined with 48 Democratic votes, means major changes to the left in the Senate -- changes that I don't think the House will swallow easily.

Good.  Have Collins or Murkowski said anything yet?

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

I believe "I Won - Get Over it" is being sarcastic.  Still, I like how none of the people ITT supporting the bill are able to defend it.  A win's a win and that's all that matters, right?

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

So Portman, Heller, and Capito, and Collins have major issues with the bill in the Senate. That, combined with 48 Democratic votes, means major changes to the left in the Senate -- changes that I don't think the House will swallow easily.

Murkowski also won't vote for any bill that guts Planned Parenthood spending.

I'm forgetting but theres another pro choice GOP Senator too. So the PP funding stays.

Yeah.  Collins.

(And Capito by some metric.)

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Some of you guys need to chill with these low-blow attacks. Yes, these Republicans who voted for this are scumbags and I want them to lose their seats and hopefully face their conscience no less than anyone else here. In fact, I already wrote my Congressman who voted for this law a very strongly worded message of condemnation. But hoping their children get chronic conditions? Wanting them to get hit by an ambulance? Come on, you know that's not right.

http://shareblue.com/gop-lawmaker-to-constituents-who-will-die-without-health-care-they-didnt-vote-for-me/

Fck being nice.  People are going to die either way.  It's every man for himself now, remember?

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Heh heh heh.

Payback's a bitch.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Some of you guys need to chill with these low-blow attacks. Yes, these Republicans who voted for this are scumbags and I want them to lose their seats and hopefully face their conscience no less than anyone else here. In fact, I already wrote my Congressman who voted for this law a very strongly worded message of condemnation. But hoping their children get chronic conditions? Wanting them to get hit by an ambulance? Come on, you know that's not right.

http://shareblue.com/gop-lawmaker-to-constituents-who-will-die-without-health-care-they-didnt-vote-for-me/

Fck being nice.  People are going to die either way.  It's every man for himself now, remember?

So, become immoral, depraved, and nihilistic like these Republicans? Reject the inherent right of all human beings to basic human dignity (which includes health care)? No thanks. Tell me though, what then separates you from the monster you're fighting?

Well, I've become a lot more tribal lately, mostly from personal circumstances but also because of politics.  My philosophy now is this: you choose poverty, you get to live in poverty.  Don't force other people to share your misery.  My father is dead, I'm disabled, and my mother is disabled.  We were only able to get our healthcare because of Obamacare.  Pardon me if I'm unhappy with the prospect of losing my health insurance because some yahoo in West Virginia doesn't like the blacks.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Reporting my posts isn't gonna change my mind.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Please, someone lecture me again about how these people only voted for Trump because of "economic anxiety" or some bullsht.  Now of course most poor people of color didn't reach the same conclusions as their white compatriots when they voted last November, but please, tell me how I'm wrong and that these people aren't deplorable!

I am done apologizing for these people.  In the past I've been very critical of Democrats who've given these voters the shaft by ignoring or insulting them.  I don't hate Middle America.  If anything, it's probably liberal cities that I dislike the most because of, well, lifestyle and cultural differences.  But if there's one thing I hate more than elitism, it's stupidity.  When it affects me and my family, it becomes personal.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Some of you guys need to chill with these low-blow attacks. Yes, these Republicans who voted for this are scumbags and I want them to lose their seats and hopefully face their conscience no less than anyone else here. In fact, I already wrote my Congressman who voted for this law a very strongly worded message of condemnation. But hoping their children get chronic conditions? Wanting them to get hit by an ambulance? Come on, you know that's not right.

http://shareblue.com/gop-lawmaker-to-constituents-who-will-die-without-health-care-they-didnt-vote-for-me/

Fck being nice.  People are going to die either way.  It's every man for himself now, remember?

So, become immoral, depraved, and nihilistic like these Republicans? Reject the inherent right of all human beings to basic human dignity (which includes health care)? No thanks. Tell me though, what then separates you from the monster you're fighting?

Well, I've become a lot more tribal lately, mostly from personal circumstances but also because of politics.  My philosophy now is this: you choose poverty, you get to live in poverty.  Don't force other people to share your misery.  My father is dead, I'm disabled, and my mother is disabled.  We were only able to get our healthcare because of Obamacare.  Pardon me if I'm unhappy with the prospect of losing my health insurance because some yahoo in West Virginia doesn't like the blacks.

Trust me, I understand why you're so upset. My father died in December, my mother is fighting for disability due to chronic health conditions, and we've lived in poverty my entire life. Most of our family, including my deceased father, voted for Trump enthusiastically or support Republicans, primarily because of abortion, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia, and racism. They support Trump despite believing in universal healthcare, higher minimum wage, and a stronger social safety net. I hear it frequently and have to see it on my fb feed regularly. My county voted only 31% for Clinton. I'm surrounded by Republicans and Trump supporters.

If this passes, my chronically ill mother could likely be denied healthcare. Due to Rick Scott being our governor, she had no access to Medicaid expansion that she would've otherwise received. So, I know how incredibly frustrating all of this is. But if we start thinking like them by denying anyone basic human decency, then we become no better than them. This isn't a game of "being better than them costs elections," which may or may not true (I doubt it is), but that's supposed to be a fundamental part of our philosophy and politics. Fight them like hell politically, but don't start thinking of people in terms of they do or don't deserve something because of their politics or wealth or anything else; they deserve decency, which includes healthcare, because they're human beings.

I do know you've been dealing with a lot of hurdles in your personal life as well, and I truly empathize.  I know I'm coming across as combative and spiteful here and that's because I never know where I'm going to be two weeks down the line nevermind six months, whether it's health insurance or anything else really.  I won't use this thread to vent and I'll probably regret a good portion of what I said when I'm of sounder mind.  I will say that I think a lot of these people don't want health insurance given to them by a black man.  If someone supports Trump despite being for UHC and real economic populism, I have a harder time sympathizing for them than I would if they actually did support his agenda.  Politics is a sport centered around stabbing other people in the back.  It is inherently tribal.  The country is divided at levels not seen since the Civil War, only instead of the haves and the have-nots it's the have-nots screwing over other have-nots by how they vote.  Our society is more concerned about placating these individuals than telling them they are wrong.  After a while, it gets old.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

TD, this has been boggling my mind for a while so why not ask here.  Why is that you dislike Medicare and Social Security but support Obamacare?

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

TD, this has been boggling my mind for a while so why not ask here.  Why is that you dislike Medicare and Social Security but support Obamacare?

snip

Hopefully that makes sense.

Well my own opinions obviously differ greatly and it's certainly not usual for one to have a more favorable opinion of Obamacare than they do of the New Deal, especially since that Obamacare in essence obviously expands on some New Deal programs (although Obamacare itself was not created with the same kind of thinking that led to the New Deal in the first place), but I suppose the logic is sound.  You agree that pursuing anything solely in pursuit of one's ideology or vision of what "should be" is bad practice and I respect that a lot.

Thanks for explaining.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

They're not even trying to hide it, on Occupy Democrats Logic they're gleeful that people wouldn't be able to afford insurance with this bill. The government providing any type of health insurance to them is "slavery". Jokes on most of them if it passes and all the pills they need to pop to stay alive won't be covered. Also note how erective dysfunction is not one of the pre-existing conditions.

Meh, Occupy Democrats Logic is about as relevant as the 10 random people who comment on some congressperson's post with "You just lost my vote over ___________!", who in 95 cases out of 100, either aren't voting in the first place, don't live in the right district, or were always going to vote against the congressperson. No Republican looks at Occupy Democrats Logic when deciding how to do anything.

The great thing about social networking sites, and especially boards like /pol/, is that the feeling of anonymity gives users the confidence to post whatever they like without fear of ostracization.  They are relevant because they give people insight into what others are thinking, but likely won't say in public.