Reunification of the Southeast Bill

[Emsworth]

Reunification of the Southeast Bill

Clause I

The State of Virginia shall henceforth be located in the Southeast Region.

Clause II

This bill shall take effect immediately on September 1, 2005 or once approved by the residents of Virginia by plebiscite and by the Southeast and Mideast Regions, whichever occurs at a later time.

Sponsor: Sen. Sam Spade

[Emsworth]

There is a legitimate reason for transferring Virginia to the Southeast. Culturally and historically, I would think that Virginia would belong to the Southeast. This is not by any means frivolous idea.

There is also a legitimate reason for keeping Virginia in the Mideast. In particular, Atlasian Regions do not necessarily have to reflect historical boundaries. Moreover, the Mideast would lose a considerable number of citizens.

Given that there is indeed a legitimate reason on each side, the People of Virginia should be allowed to voice their opinions. It should be up to them: does the interest of the Mideast outweigh cultural and historical ties to the Southeast? They are the ones best placed, and most entitled, to deciding.

I, therefore, have no personal opinion one way or the other.

[Emsworth]

Let me address and comment on each of Governor Republic's very astute points.

1. If the SE takes Virginia, where will they stop?  Kentucky, Oklahoma, Missouri?  Even D.C., Maryland and Delaware?  Its already a stated aim of the Dixie Union Caucus to try and reunite the Old Confederacy, which would put every other region at great cost (in many more ways than one).

That is certainly a valid concern. But the current claim should be evaluated on its own merits, not taking into account slippery slope fallacies.

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The citizens of the Southeast will, naturally, be concerned about unifying (as they see it) the Southeast. It should not be relevant that citizens of other regions are not equally concerned. I think that few bother about the examples you cite because the Midwest is an inactive region.

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As far as I know, MHS2002, A18, and Frodo, all of whom support the move, are from the real life Commonwealth of Virginia.

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This is another very valid concern; however, I do not think that such a situation is likely to come to pass.

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I don't think that it is my place to comment, but the Southeast is not the only region which has faced problems. The Northeast has recently faced problems relating to the Governor's use of a line item veto. The Mideast has seen an election and referendum postponed, and then cancelled. The Midwest has faced a very serious inactivity crisis. The Pacific has seen many essentially uncontested elections. So the Southeast is not the only region with fantasy problems: no, such problems face all the regions from time to time.

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This is probably, in my opinion, the most valid and most serious concern of all.

[Emsworth]

Are you seriously saying that we deny citizens inalienable rights just because they don't live in that state in real life? Why should it matter if they are real life Virginians or not we are not in America we are in Atlasia and you should get that through you thick skull. Would you be willing to, in real life, not be allowed to vote in state elections because you were not born in that state? This is pure idiocy of the highest kind.

To be perfectly fair, the issue was raised not by Frodo, but by Governor Joe Republic:

3. A few Virginian people have already stated their support for this, and a few have already come out against it.  However, some of the people currently registered in Virginia aren't even from there in real life.  Why do they seem to have a say in this, and others don't?  What's to stop anybody (like myself, for example) from just registering in VA and then declaring my opposition to it?

Frodo was merely stating a fact (that certain posters actually live in Virginia in real life); he was merely responding to Joe Republic's question.

[Emsworth]

I think Joe Republic mostly meant other people that aren't there now coming in to swing the state. I'm pretty sure he's fine with those that are in there now. He may prove me wrong though.

That may certainly be true. However, I still feel that it is not fair to level accusations against Frodo, who was only responding to a question.

[Emsworth]

Here's a precis of the Senators' attitudes on the bill so far:

In favor/ Allow Virginia to decide
- Sam Spade
- MHS2002
- PBrunsel

Opposed
- Gabu
- Colin Wixted
- MasterJedi
- True Independent
- DanielX

Unclear
- King

Assuming that the individual elected in the special election this weekend favors the bill, and assuming that King favors the bill, the Senate is tied 5-5.

[Emsworth]

King told me he's for it and PBrunsel said he was unclear earlier

I think that PBrunsel said that the People of Virginia should be allowed to decide, so I counted him as being in favor.

[Emsworth]

Unless there is further debate (from a Senator), this bill is scheduled for a vote at about 9:30 PM EST today.

[Emsworth]

I would like to make a motion to extend debate for 2 days (that's right isn't it?)

The rules allow an extension of up to 72 hours. Another Senator must second.

[Emsworth]

The chair advises Senator MasterJedi that a motion for cloture is the only means by which debate can be ended. Such a motion cannot be voted upon until at least 72 hours of debate have ended (9:30 PM EST today).

The Senator can propose a motion to table the bill.

[Emsworth]

Senators,

I think that it is highly unlikely that we will have a 24-hour period without debate. Therefore, if this bill is to get a vote, either (a) Senators must refrain from debate for 24 hours, or (b) the Senate must invoke cloture.

[Emsworth]

Only one more vote necessary to end debate (2/3 majority out of 9 Senators present).

[Emsworth]

With six Ayes, the motion is passed, and cloture invoked.

The question is on final passage of the bill. All those in favor, say Aye; those opposed, say No.

[Emsworth]

There have voted:
Aye: 1
Nay: 6
Abstain: 1

Therefore, the bill fails.