Trump related 'Hate Crime Surge'. Real or imagined?

[EnglishPete]

Starting towards the end of the General Election campaign last year and ever since then there have been  plenty of reports in the media of a surge in hate crimes happening as a direct result of Trump's 'hateful and divisive rhetoric'. However case after case that has been reported in the media has later turned out to be hoaxes. The Louisiana student who had her Hijab ripped off by Trump supporters, never happened. The Michigan students threatened and assaulted by Trump supporters, never happened.  The man who reported as a hate crime a painted swastika on his door was later found to have done it himself.

Of course these kind of hoaxes are nothing new but there has been an increased reporting of them over the last year. This has been reported as a 'hate crime surge' and blamed on the influence of president Trump. When Trump was asked about a spate of bomb threats to Jewish community centers. When he suggested that "sometimes it’s the reverse” when these things happened, i.e. that these things are sometimes hoaxes designed to be blamed on someone other than the real perps, he was widely condemned for suggesting this. His comments were widely condemned at the time but were later vindicated when the real perps turned out to be a mentally ill Jewish Israeli teen and a copycat far left African American journalist.

All of this is quite familiar to brits. After the referendum result last year there was widespread reporting of a 'surge in hate crime' caused by the referendum. It later turned out that whilst there was indeed a surge in reporting of hate crime, it later turned  out that this was largely a surge of people, encouraged by social media to report allegations to an online police hate crime report website, egged on by mass media hysteria. There was no evidence of an actual uptick in hate crimes.

So the question is why so many of these media reported hate crimes turn out to be hoaxes and false flags? Is the 'Trump hate crime wave' fake or real?

[EnglishPete]

Please note that a previous thread on this topic was deleted by a mod on the grounds that

"The thread was getting out of hand and there were multiple complaints, Had nothing to do with the topic.
Instead of flaming each other try having a rational discussion and it won't be deleted."

Please keep this in mind when writing replies.

[EnglishPete]

Crime is down since most of it just moved onto the internets

If you're referring to online harassment that's been going on for a number of years. The question  is whether hate crime overall, whether it take the form of real life threats, assaults or vandalism or whether it takes the form of online threats and harassment has surged at all as a result of Trump's rhetoric and election.

Despite a lot of heady headlines the evidence would suggest that this 'hate crime surge' simply hasn't happened in reality.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Some are fake, some are real.

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

Trump promised to "look into" the alt-right and deal with it, but he hasn't even bothered to try.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Some fake but most are sadly real an fueled by Trump's racist campagin rhetoric an his advisors like Bannon

[EnglishPete]

Crime is down since most of it just moved onto the internets

If you're referring to online harassment that's been going on for a number of years. The question  is whether hate crime overall, whether it take the form of real life threats, assaults or vandalism or whether it takes the form of online threats and harassment has surged at all as a result of Trump's rhetoric and election.

Despite a lot of heady headlines the evidence would suggest that this 'hate crime surge' simply hasn't happened in reality.

I don't know about the rest of the US but anti-semetic hate crimes are up 100% in NYC since Trump got elected. That would require thousands of fake calls

Source?

The reason I ask for a source, before you ask, is because in the UK there was a big surge in reports of hate crimes immediately after the referendum. However there was no later surge in actual prosecutions for hate crimes. It seems the surge in reporting was not caused by any actual surge in crime but by media hysteria leading lots of people to report what they thought were hate crimes.

This massive increase in reporting was then reported by the police without any adjustment for which incidents had actually happened and which had just been invented, which were really hate crimes or just something that someone suspected of being hate crimes without the proof or evidence, which were people reporting unverified hearsay that they had heard second or third hand. All these types of unreliable reporting surge when there is media hysteria. However when it got to the point of sifting through evidence to assemble prosecutions there was absolutely no sign of this alleged hate crime surge.

Your stat would be particularly suspect if it came from the ADL who are famous for recording anything that someone somewhere suspects may be an antisemitic incident and reports it to them in their states of 'hate' incidents and crimes.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Crime is down since most of it just moved onto the internets

If you're referring to online harassment that's been going on for a number of years. The question  is whether hate crime overall, whether it take the form of real life threats, assaults or vandalism or whether it takes the form of online threats and harassment has surged at all as a result of Trump's rhetoric and election.

Despite a lot of heady headlines the evidence would suggest that this 'hate crime surge' simply hasn't happened in reality.

I don't know about the rest of the US but anti-semetic hate crimes are up 100% in NYC since Trump got elected. That would require thousands of fake calls

Source?

The reason I ask for a source, before you ask, is because in the UK there was a big surge in reports of hate crimes immediately after the referendum. However there was no later surge in actual prosecutions for hate crimes. It seems the surge in reporting was not caused by any actual surge in crime but by media hysteria leading lots of people to report what they thought were hate crimes.

This massive increase in reporting was then reported by the police without any adjustment for which incidents had actually happened and which had just been invented, which were really hate crimes or just something that someone suspected of being hate crimes without the proof or evidence, which were people reporting unverified hearsay that they had heard second or third hand. All these types of unreliable reporting surge when there is media hysteria. However when it got to the point of sifting through evidence to assemble prosecutions there was absolutely no sign of this alleged hate crime surge.

Your stat would be particularly suspect if it came from the ADL who are famous for recording anything that someone somewhere suspects may be an antisemitic incident and reports it to them in their states of 'hate' incidents and crimes.

n.y.p.d., sweetie

suffice it to say, if even notorious perpetrators of hate crimes are accepting the existence of the increase…

now, if you'd care to provide a source for any of the nonsense you've spouted here, feel free to.

[EnglishPete]

Crime is down since most of it just moved onto the internets

If you're referring to online harassment that's been going on for a number of years. The question  is whether hate crime overall, whether it take the form of real life threats, assaults or vandalism or whether it takes the form of online threats and harassment has surged at all as a result of Trump's rhetoric and election.

Despite a lot of heady headlines the evidence would suggest that this 'hate crime surge' simply hasn't happened in reality.

I don't know about the rest of the US but anti-semetic hate crimes are up 100% in NYC since Trump got elected. That would require thousands of fake calls

Source?

The reason I ask for a source, before you ask, is because in the UK there was a big surge in reports of hate crimes immediately after the referendum. However there was no later surge in actual prosecutions for hate crimes. It seems the surge in reporting was not caused by any actual surge in crime but by media hysteria leading lots of people to report what they thought were hate crimes.

This massive increase in reporting was then reported by the police without any adjustment for which incidents had actually happened and which had just been invented, which were really hate crimes or just something that someone suspected of being hate crimes without the proof or evidence, which were people reporting unverified hearsay that they had heard second or third hand. All these types of unreliable reporting surge when there is media hysteria. However when it got to the point of sifting through evidence to assemble prosecutions there was absolutely no sign of this alleged hate crime surge.

Your stat would be particularly suspect if it came from the ADL who are famous for recording anything that someone somewhere suspects may be an antisemitic incident and reports it to them in their states of 'hate' incidents and crimes.

n.y.p.d., sweetie

suffice it to say, if even notorious perpetrators of hate crimes are accepting the existence of the increase…

now, if you'd care to provide a source for any of the nonsense you've spouted here, feel free to.

Ah I see, a surge in reports of antisemitic incidents, no indication of evidence for an actual surge. Again there is every reason to suspect that this is similar to the reported surge in the UK of alleged hate crimes that Police later had to admit was actually a surge in reporting to an online police hate crimes reporting form (that was widely linked to on social media following the referendum). In the statement from Britain's ultra PC police chiefs admitted that there was no rise in general tensions just a 57% spike in reporting through one reporting mechanism.

Here's the source for that

https://news.npcc.police.uk/releases/hate-crime-is-unacceptable-in-any-circumstances-say-police

As for the source of the case after case after case of media publicised hate crimes that later turn out to be hoaxes these have been heavily documented across the media.

Now if your claim that there has been a spike in real cases of hate crimes was true we would expect to see a spike not only in reported cases but also in reported cases where the police feel they have enough evidence to bring a successful prosecution. There has been no sign of this happening in the UK, despite all the hype. Where's the evidence of it happening in the US.

Oh and as for your remark about the NYPD the mayor, the City Council and indeed the State governor are all Dems. It is to be expected that a senior NYPD commissioner would spin these stats in an anti Trump way.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

so you're continuing to post zero evidence of any ~false reports~, 'sthat right?

[ProudModerate2]

Some fake but most are sadly real an fueled by Trump's racist campagin rhetoric an his advisors like Bannon

[EnglishPete]

Some fake but most are sadly real an fueled by Trump's racist campagin rhetoric an his advisors like Bannon

Evidence for this claim?

[EnglishPete]

so you're continuing to post zero evidence of any ~false reports~, 'sthat right?

Actually I mentioned a number of well documented false reports in the opening post of this thread. many more can be found with a minimum of research. I have also presented good evidence that suggests that the overall 'hate crime surge' is likely to be based on this kind of false reporting and hysteria.

It is you who have continued to post zero evidence of any genuine reported hate crimes (there have been a few, although it looks like no more than usual). Do you have any evidence that that the reported 'hate crime surge' is genuine.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

yeah the fact that you're badgering other people for sources while providing none of your own…

[Dr. Arch]

yeah the fact that you're badgering other people for sources while providing none of your own…

That's his standard M.O.

[EnglishPete]

yeah the fact that you're badgering other people for sources while providing none of your own…

See this above

"Here's the source for that

https://news.npcc.police.uk/releases/hate-crime-is-unacceptable-in-any-circumstances-say-police

As for the source of the case after case after case of media publicised hate crimes that later turn out to be hoaxes these have been heavily documented across the media."

That's sources

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

yeah m8 that a) doesn't prove what you're claiming it does, and b) isn't at all relevant to the numerous other questionable-at-best claims you're making

[EnglishPete]

yeah m8 that a) doesn't prove what you're claiming it does, and b) isn't at all relevant to the numerous other questionable-at-best claims you're making

Well here is a start

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/12/21/ann-arbor-hijab/95706392/

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2017/03/ann_arbor_woman_pleads_guilty_1.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/muslim-student-attacked-university-of-louisiana-lafayette_us_58227f5fe4b0d9ce6fbfc2b1

https://dailygazette.com/article/2017/03/20/police-schenectady-man-spray-painted-swastikas-on-his-own-home

please specify which other claims I've made in this thread that you'd like documented.

And perhaps you'd like to provide some evidence to document your claim that the surge in hate crime reports in the US was caused by an actual surge in hate crimes.

[ProudModerate2]

Your entire "poor attempt" to convince others that trump related hate crime is "imaginary," is an example of spreading hate, in itself.
So there ..... there is your proof .... and you provided it.

[EnglishPete]

Your entire "poor attempt" to convince others that trump related hate crime is "imaginary," is an example of spreading hate, in itself.
So there ..... there is your proof .... and you provided it.

I do know that some on the left seem to label more or less anything they don't like as 'hate' but you're really stretching it. I seem to remember people on this forum labeling Trump and others guilty of 'hate' for suspecting that the recent Jewish bomb threats might have been done by a left wing Democrat supporter or by a Jewish person. It turned out that the two perps were an Israeli Jewish teen and a copycat far left African American man.

Given the numerous documented cases of hate crime hoaxes in recent months. Given that there was a wave of media hysteria on the subject recently and such waves of media crime hysteria always lead to a surge in reports of the crime being focused on, irrespective of whether there is any actual surge in  those crimes. Given all that and other factors there is very good reason to suspect that the 'hate crime surge' is entirely imaginary.

Do you have any evidence to the contrary before labelling the opposite opinion 'hate'.

[EnglishPete]

Your entire "poor attempt" to convince others

And I see the way you try to snidely insinuate here that the views I'm expressing here do not represent my honest opinion. Perhaps if you came up with actual evidence to back your claims rather than snide insults aimed at those of the opposite view it might be better.

[ProudModerate2]

Your entire "poor attempt" to convince others that trump related hate crime is "imaginary," is an example of spreading hate, in itself.
So there ..... there is your proof .... and you provided it.

I do know that some on the left seem to label more or less anything they don't like as 'hate' but you're really stretching it. I seem to remember people on this forum labeling Trump and others guilty of 'hate' for suspecting that the recent Jewish bomb threats might have been done by a left wing Democrat supporter or by a Jewish person. It turned out that the two perps were an Israeli Jewish teen and a copycat far left African American man.

Given the numerous documented cases of hate crime hoaxes in recent months. Given that there was a wave of media hysteria on the subject recently and such waves of media crime hysteria always lead to a surge in reports of the crime being focused on, irrespective of whether there is any actual surge in  those crimes. Given all that and other factors there is very good reason to suspect that the 'hate crime surge' is entirely imaginary.

Do you have any evidence to the contrary before labelling the opposite opinion 'hate'.

Spreading more hate, I see.

[EnglishPete]

Your entire "poor attempt" to convince others that trump related hate crime is "imaginary," is an example of spreading hate, in itself.
So there ..... there is your proof .... and you provided it.

I do know that some on the left seem to label more or less anything they don't like as 'hate' but you're really stretching it. I seem to remember people on this forum labeling Trump and others guilty of 'hate' for suspecting that the recent Jewish bomb threats might have been done by a left wing Democrat supporter or by a Jewish person. It turned out that the two perps were an Israeli Jewish teen and a copycat far left African American man.

Given the numerous documented cases of hate crime hoaxes in recent months. Given that there was a wave of media hysteria on the subject recently and such waves of media crime hysteria always lead to a surge in reports of the crime being focused on, irrespective of whether there is any actual surge in  those crimes. Given all that and other factors there is very good reason to suspect that the 'hate crime surge' is entirely imaginary.

Do you have any evidence to the contrary before labelling the opposite opinion 'hate'.

Spreading more hate, I see.

Still flame baiting I see.

[Torie]

This thread is entropic. Get off this who is the greater hater gig, or I will lock the thread.

[ProudModerate2]

This thread is entropic. Get off this who is the greater hater gig, or I will lock the thread.

Just lock it.
Stupid thread altogether.