Trump related 'Hate Crime Surge'. Real or imagined?

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Probably a little of both. I can believe that there are hateful types who are more active, but there is also a troubling incidence of faked hate crimes that generate press.

[EnglishPete]

This thread is entropic. Get off this who is the greater hater gig, or I will lock the thread.

Noted, thanks. I will ensure that any posts of mine stay on topic and avoid flame wars, as was previously advised.

[EnglishPete]

     Probably a little of both. I can believe that there are hateful types who are more active, but there is also a troubling incidence of faked hate crimes that generate press.

I think for me its a question of the burden of proof. I am certainly open to the possibility that there could have been a genuine spike in hate crime being at least partly the cause of the increase in reports. My requests for evidence in this question have been entirely genuine. However given the well documented reality of hoaxes in this area as well the way the statistics have been compiled (with no attempt to sort false or unsubstantiated reports from genuine or substantiated reports) then for me the burden of proof lies with those who claim that this 'spike' is partly or wholly genuine.

[EnglishPete]

yeah the fact that you're badgering other people for sources while providing none of your own…

See this above

"Here's the source for that

https://news.npcc.police.uk/releases/hate-crime-is-unacceptable-in-any-circumstances-say-police

As for the source of the case after case after case of media publicised hate crimes that later turn out to be hoaxes these have been heavily documented across the media."

That's sources

Some more analysis here on some of the problems with the statistics used as the basis for the claim of a 'Post Referedum hate crime spike' in the UK, for those who are interested

http://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/hatecrimethefactsbehindtheheadlines.pdf

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

so in three of your four claimed hoaxes, the entirety of your 'proof' is that the police says so? the police system that is itself the most prolific organised group of hate-criminals in the country, if not the entire world? ok m8

[EnglishPete]

so in three of your four claimed hoaxes, the entirety of your 'proof' is that the police says so? the police system that is itself the most prolific organised group of hate-criminals in the country, if not the entire world? ok m8

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Both

[Torie]

so in three of your four claimed hoaxes, the entirety of your 'proof' is that the police says so? the police system that is itself the most prolific organised group of hate-criminals in the country, if not the entire world? ok m8

Do you really believe the bolded bit? If you do, there for many is really no point in having a dialogue with you, because you seem to live on a different planet from most. Or it is designed as flame bait? If that is the case, rather than some mean old Mod infract and all the rest, the best solution is that posters not rise to the bait. It is always best if posters work these things out among themselves, sans any Mod involvement, so that threads are not derailed, and feuds fueled. Right everyone?  

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

so in three of your four claimed hoaxes, the entirety of your 'proof' is that the police says so? the police system that is itself the most prolific organised group of hate-criminals in the country, if not the entire world? ok m8

Do you really believe the bolded bit?

yes…? the fact of the police system's organised viciousness towards black people (and other minority groups, to a lesser extent) really oughtn't be at all controversial.

[Torie]

so in three of your four claimed hoaxes, the entirety of your 'proof' is that the police says so? the police system that is itself the most prolific organised group of hate-criminals in the country, if not the entire world? ok m8

Do you really believe the bolded bit?

yes…? the fact of the police system's organised viciousness towards black people (and other minority groups, to a lesser extent) really oughtn't be at all controversial.

Actually it is. In any event, while you have a right to your point of view of course,  I expect you to be civil to posters who disagree with you.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

so in three of your four claimed hoaxes, the entirety of your 'proof' is that the police says so? the police system that is itself the most prolific organised group of hate-criminals in the country, if not the entire world? ok m8

Do you really believe the bolded bit?

yes…? the fact of the police system's organised viciousness towards black people (and other minority groups, to a lesser extent) really oughtn't be at all controversial.

Actually it is. In any event, while you have a right to your point of view of course,  I expect you to be civil to posters who disagree with you.

and here we go again with the conflation of ~*~people who disagree with you~*~ and fascists

'm perfectly capable of beïng civil to people who have bad taste in music or w/e, but, as you know perfectly well, this goes well beyond that

[EnglishPete]

Bumped for reference (see Ann Coulter Berkeley thread)

[EnglishPete]

Can we have a "English Pete reposts Prison Planet content" general thread? We don't need a new thread every time there's an update in the story only you care about.
This story makes the left look bad, please don't post anymore like it.

I remember that this happened with the 'Fake hate crime' (which I've just bumped for reference so you can see) where a couple of leftists started flame baiting and when a mod threatened to close the thread if flame baiting continued one of the flame baiters then demanded that she do exactly that.

In other words when someone is saying something you don't want people to hear then cause trouble and/or disruption and then suggest an end to the speaking as a solution for the disruption.

Where on earth would people get the idea to use tactics like that? Berkeley perhaps?

Wrong.
Your comment above is a bunch of double-talk babbling.
Your previous thread should have been closed because of its stupidity, in that you were saying that trump related hatred was "imaginary" (non-existent and only in people's head).

I've decided to delete my previous response to this comment and reply to your comment here as it concerns this thread.

To answer you point directly this is the point of a discussion forum. This thread is discussing the question of whether the Trump related hate crime surge is real or if its not real and the reporting about it is simply the result of hoaxing and media hysteria.

Now some like myself think its not real and I given my reason for thinking that. Others think it is real and have given their reasons for thinking that. Some people think its a bit of both and again have given reasons. These can all then be discussed.

If you happen to think that a particular discussion is 'stupid' then you don't have to take part in it. That shouldn't prevent others who want to discuss this topic from doing so.

[Horus]

Absolutely real, and absolutely sensationalized by the media.

[I Won - Get Over It]

Absolutely real, and absolutely sensationalized by the media.

[ProudModerate2]

Anti-Semitic incidents rose a whopping 86% in the first 3 months of 2017.

But of course, some alt-right "English" dude wants you do believe that we are all just "imagining" it.
See the numbers and data :
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/us/antisemitic-incidents-reports-trnd/index.html

[EnglishPete]

Anti-Semitic incidents rose a whopping 86% in the first 3 months of 2017.

But of course, some alt-right "English" dude wants you do believe that we are all just "imagining" it.
See the numbers and data :
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/us/antisemitic-incidents-reports-trnd/index.html

Lets see what it says

Quote "In the first three months of this year, the number of anti-Semitic incidents in the US was 86% higher than the same period last year, says a new report.

The report, released Monday by Anti-Defamation League, counted 541 anti-Semitic attacks and threats between January and March.
There were 281 incidents in the same time period in 2016.

There were 541 incidents in the first three months of 2017, including:
380 cases of harassment, including 161 bomb threats
155 cases of vandalism, including three incidents where cemeteries were desecrated
6 cases of physical assault" End quote

So there were 260 more anti-semitic incidents that the same period the year before. Now what proportion of these could be hoaxes. Does the article provide any clues. Why yes it does. The bit I bolded. We already know that the wave of bomb threats were done by two hoaxers. An Isreai Jewish teen and a far left supporting African american journalist. So of the 260 extra incidents we know straight off the bat that 161 were hoaxes. Is it possible that in the climate of hysteria whipped up by the media over a "hate crime wave" that a further 99 or more cases were also hoaxes. Its not only possible but highly probable.

These "stats" give no indication that the ADL made any attempt to sift the real cases from the hoaxes. Remember this is the ADL we're talking about here. People report to them unverified and unprovable incidents of 'harassment' they're not going to question them. They'll just accept these accounts at face value and add them too their stats because it doesn't suit them to do otherwise.

[Horus]

Anti-Semitic incidents rose a whopping 86% in the first 3 months of 2017.

But of course, some alt-right "English" dude wants you do believe that we are all just "imagining" it.
See the numbers and data :
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/us/antisemitic-incidents-reports-trnd/index.html

Come on now. I usually think you're a great poster but the ADL is NOT a reliable source. They exist solely to scare old Jewish grandparents in West Palm out of their money.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Anti-Semitic incidents rose a whopping 86% in the first 3 months of 2017.

But of course, some alt-right "English" dude wants you do believe that we are all just "imagining" it.
See the numbers and data :
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/us/antisemitic-incidents-reports-trnd/index.html

Come on now. I usually think you're a great poster

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Englishpete's next thread: "holocaust, real or imagined".

[Rjjr77]

Here's the thing.
Yes there have been an increase in what SPLC calls racial incidents. The problem is there is nothing to corroborate these claims, as they are largely self reported and encompass well pretty much anything. (From actual crimes, to things as silly as high school student sections chanting, or my favorite "overheard someone say a racial slur to someone else on the street")

I will say the bands of white men in MAGA hats terrorizing minority communities that certain groups said would materialize never did.

[EnglishPete]

Here's the thing.
Yes there have been an increase in what SPLC calls racial incidents.

Well indeed. The SPLC are worse than the ADL.