Alabama Megathread: Bombshell allegations

[Maxwell]

Does anyone familiar with Moore know what people like about him so much? He doesn't strike me as a Trumpist. He's much more (no pun intended) ideological than Trump as well as clearly more religious. What confounds me is that Alabama went all in for Trump during the presidential primary, but appears to be poised to elect Roy Moore. Is it that Moore, like Trump, is more of a "personality" candidate?

you're implying that Trump is about anything other than white identity and white rage politics. He's not. Roy Moore is much the same.

[Alabama_Indy10]

Does anyone familiar with Moore know what people like about him so much? He doesn't strike me as a Trumpist. He's much more (no pun intended) ideological than Trump as well as clearly more religious. What confounds me is that Alabama went all in for Trump during the presidential primary, but appears to be poised to elect Roy Moore. Is it that Moore, like Trump, is more of a "personality" candidate?

you're implying that Trump is about anything other than white identity and white rage politics. He's not. Roy Moore is much the same.

LOLOLOL

[brucejoel99]

Didn't Moore almost lose the SC race in 2012 to a Democrat? If Moore is the nominee I do legitimately think there is a chance of Jones pulling a Scott Brown.

Their was no SC senate race in 2012

Can't tell if sarcasm or not, so sorry for this if it was, but (especially considering *Judge* Roy Moore's former job as, y'know, Chief Justice of the AL Supreme Court) obvious Supreme Court abbreviation is obvious

[Alabama_Indy10]

Does anyone familiar with Moore know what people like about him so much? He doesn't strike me as a Trumpist. He's much more (no pun intended) ideological than Trump as well as clearly more religious. What confounds me is that Alabama went all in for Trump during the presidential primary, but appears to be poised to elect Roy Moore. Is it that Moore, like Trump, is more of a "personality" candidate?

Not at all an expert on Alabama politics but from what I've gathered it comes down to 3 things.

1.) Moore is a strong social conservative: Infamously removed twice for placing a statue of the 10 commandments outside the state court, and then for refusing to allow same sex marriages. Not just his ideology; but I assume the fact that he's walked the walk on it would help.

2.) High Name ID: He's been around in the state for at least a decade, and has ran in statewide races since 2000. Combined with the above; I guess he's well liked by republican primary voters.

3.) He's playing the anti-establishment card: Strange had his own issues as he was appointed to the seat by the Governor he was suppose to be investigating, combined with the amount of heavy backing from McConnell helps Moore run as the outsider.

There's probably a lot of republican primary voters who love Trump, supported him in 2016 and will continue to support him- but simply won't vote for Strange

That's pretty spot on.

[TheSaint250]

If Moore is closer to Trump than Strange (particularly when talking about the Establishment) why is Trump endorsing Strange then? Is Moore a bit too anti-LGBT for what Trump might want (not that Trump is as LGBT friendly as he says)?

I doubt Trump cares about the race. Someone on the inside is telling him to support Moore, just as someone undoubtedly told him to support Bill Schuette in MI.

[Ebsy]

Didn't Moore almost lose the SC race in 2012 to a Democrat? If Moore is the nominee I do legitimately think there is a chance of Jones pulling a Scott Brown.

He won 52-48, so yeah, he almost lost.

[PragmaticPopulist]

If anyone hasn't done this yet, I calculated what a Jones win might look like based on the current partisan leanings of every county in Alabama compared to the state. I added each partisan leaning (for example, Jefferson is 16% more Democratic than the state as a whole) to the national democratic vote share average for the past two elections (51.54%). It produces this:



This would be a roughly 52-48 Jones win.

Now, it's not a perfect method for calculation; in this scenario, Jones would get 100.07% of the vote in Macon County. All that means is that Jones would have to pick up votes somewhere else. I expect Jones to get at least 80% in Macon County.

[Dr. Arch]

If anyone hasn't done this yet, I calculated what a Jones win might look like based on the current partisan leanings of every county in Alabama compared to the state. I added each partisan leaning (for example, Jefferson is 16% more Democratic than the state as a whole) to the national democratic vote share average for the past two elections (51.54%). It produces this:



This would be a roughly 52-48 Jones win.

Now, it's not a perfect method for calculation; in this scenario, Jones would get 100.07% of the vote in Macon County. All that means is that Jones would have to pick up votes somewhere else. I expect Jones to get at least 80% in Macon County.

One could hope.

[TheSaint250]

What are Jones's policies?

[Anna Komnene]

What are Jones's policies?

https://dougjonesforsenate.com/priorities/

• Reduce regulations on small business
• Oppose tax cuts for wealthy
• Close the gap between rich and poor in public education, identifies this as his biggest priority
• Support programs for education, infrastructure, childcare, nutrition
• Living Wage
• Supports program of pubic service in exchange for reduced college costs
• Supports investment in renewable energy and conservation; supports Paris Accords
• Wants programs to help coal miners get healthcare and job retraining
• Pro Choice. Supports Planned Parenthood
• Supports equal pay for women
• Supports ACA with improvements
• Says healthcare shouldn't depend on where you live, references Alabama rejecting the medicaid expansion
• Says insurance companies shouldn't discriminate against women

Wow I actually like this guy. Wish I could have him in NY instead of Schumer!

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

What are Jones's policies?

https://dougjonesforsenate.com/priorities/

• Reduce regulations on small business
• Oppose tax cuts for wealthy
• Close the gap between rich and poor in public education, identifies this as his biggest priority
• Support programs for education, infrastructure, childcare, nutrition
• Living Wage
• Supports program of pubic service in exchange for reduced college costs
• Supports investment in renewable energy and conservation; supports Paris Accords
• Wants programs to help coal miners get healthcare and job retraining
• Pro Choice. Supports Planned Parenthood
• Supports equal pay for women
• Supports ACA with improvements
• Says healthcare shouldn't depend on where you live, references Alabama rejecting the medicaid expansion
• Says insurance companies shouldn't discriminate against women

Wow I actually like this guy. Wish I could have him in NY instead of Schumer!

Agreed. The Democratic party would be 10 times better if it was led by a Pro-Coal Figure like Jones, Tester, or Donnelly.

[TheSaint250]

What are Jones's policies?

https://dougjonesforsenate.com/priorities/

• Reduce regulations on small business
• Oppose tax cuts for wealthy
• Close the gap between rich and poor in public education, identifies this as his biggest priority
• Support programs for education, infrastructure, childcare, nutrition
• Living Wage
• Supports program of pubic service in exchange for reduced college costs
• Supports investment in renewable energy and conservation; supports Paris Accords
• Wants programs to help coal miners get healthcare and job retraining
• Pro Choice. Supports Planned Parenthood
• Supports equal pay for women
• Supports ACA with improvements
• Says healthcare shouldn't depend on where you live, references Alabama rejecting the medicaid expansion
• Says insurance companies shouldn't discriminate against women

Wow I actually like this guy. Wish I could have him in NY instead of Schumer!

Thank you!

[Anna Komnene]

Can anyone with more experience with FEC reporting explain why there hasn't been an update for the runoff yet? I was looking at the schedule, and it seems to indicate that candidates involved in the runoff (so I would assume Strange and Moore but not Jones) were required to file numbers with a close of books at Sept 6. The mailing deadline was Sept 11 and the filing deadline was Sept 14. Yet, there are still no files since the ones that were posted in July. Is that normal? I'm interested because I really want to see if the fundraising gap between Strange and Moore is narrowing or not.

https://www.fec.gov/updates/alabama-special-election-reporting-senate-2017/

[GeorgiaModerate]

Pence is also going to Alabama on Monday to campaign for Strange: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/18/mike-pence-luther-strange-campaign-alabama-242852

[Gass3268]

Moore refers to Native Americans and Asians as "reds and yellows"

[Cactus Jack]

Moore refers to Native Americans and Asians as "reds and yellows"

Ye gods and saints, Moore's campaign is like watching a World War I army specialist hand boxes of ammunition to an enemy Maxim gunner.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Moore refers to Native Americans and Asians as "reds and yellows"

I think most boomer*/gen x churchgoing folks grew up with this song:

"Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Red and yellow, black and white
They are precious in his sight
Jesus loves the little children of the world"

*(though it may not have been popular in white churches in MS until more recently, for obvious reasons)

[RFayette]

Moore refers to Native Americans and Asians as "reds and yellows"

I think most boomer*/gen x churchgoing folks grew up with this song:

"Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Red and yellow, black and white
They are precious in his sight
Jesus loves the little children of the world"

*(though it may not have been popular in white churches in MS until more recently, for obvious reasons)

I remember in Sunday School watching a VHS by Cedarmont Kids with the same song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CBtA1A-cR8
So I think some millenials might have heard it before as well, though probably a lower proportion (though Moore's comment still seemed insensitive).

[Alabama_Indy10]

Moore refers to Native Americans and Asians as "reds and yellows"

He did not refer to them as that. He used lyrics from a gospel song. Heard it in church for years

[GeorgiaModerate]

Pence is also going to Alabama on Monday to campaign for Strange: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/18/mike-pence-luther-strange-campaign-alabama-242852

The fact Trump, Pence, and McConnell want Strange to win only makes me want Moore to win

Moore is objectively a worse person to have in the Senate, but there's some truth to this.

[Meatball Ron]

Moore is objectively a worse person to have in the Senate, but there's some truth to this.

[quote author=Mondale Won 1 State link=topic=262651.msg5829138#msg5829138
Moore getting elected doesn't bother me since Moore and Strange would vote the same 99% of the time but I can't help and enjoy the Frankenstein the GOP has created and is no longer able to control.
[/quote]

Right. Moore is a more evil person but they would have the exact same policy impact in the Senate, with Moore just worsening the GOP's brand overall. So, I'm all in for Moore (not to mention that Moore being nominated would give Jones like a 0.5% chance whereas he'd have more like a 0.2% chance against Strange. These numbers being very arbitrary and all).

As a side note, I don't think Moore's comments about "reds and yellows" will hurt in him at all, lamentably. It would be a problem in a general election in about 28 states, but not in a low-turnout GOP primary in Alabama of all places.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

CMON STRANGE, pull through!

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

The New Left's complete blindness to religious allusions and frankly any relevant culture strikes again!

[Gustaf]

Moore was coming out against race war on minorities though. That seems ultra-progressive for an Alabama Republican so I'll give a pass on him using language that is offensive. Especially as even the language is pretty mellow for his context - I would imagine most Alabama Republicans to use considerably worse terms.

[Anna Komnene]

Right. Moore is a more evil person but they would have the exact same policy impact in the Senate, with Moore just worsening the GOP's brand overall.

That's not entirely true though. Politicians do more than just vote on stuff. They sponsor bills and amendments that may never even exist without them. They interact with other politicians and can influence them by making deals or even campaigning for them or fundraising for them. They make public speeches than can influence people in their state and people who look up to them. They have relationships with PACs, donors, and companies that can influence goodness knows what. They hire staff. That impacts those people for sure. They provide constituent services and can theoretically choose how that takes place and if they're discriminating against certain constituents... like that story of the rep who forced Muslims to answer degrading questionnaire when they came to the office for help. Even if they don't discriminate, some people may feel more comfortable going to one politician for help over another. For example, I've asked Gillibrand for help with a personal matter and written to her on a few political issues, but I've never interacted with Schumer or my House rep at all.

It's tempting to say that it doesn't matter who's elected because of the vote similarities, but it really misses a lot of nuance about what politicians actually do. It's why I was an enthusiastic Mark Begich supporter despite disagreeing with him on several issues and despite a lot of progressives crusading against him. His presence there was a massive boon to Alaska natives that most people will never know about because his tenure was partially about being their advocate in Washington. I mean, that's not to say that Luther Strange would be this amazing guy by comparison to Roy Moore. Each has their own unique shortcomings, but they aren't the same person.