The Book "Shattered" - Inside stories of Hillary's campaign

[Doimper]

sure...it was uncouth, but letting him do it implies "consent".

Consent is never implied. It has to be explicit.

This is the mindset of actual rapists.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Speaking of, are the Game Change guys writing another book together?

Yes and HBO is doing a miniseries. I did a thread on it.

Really?? That's hella cool.

[RI]

sure...it was uncouth, but letting him do it implies "consent".

Consent is never implied. It has to be explicit.

Eh, that's a very, very thorny subject. Discussing consent without discussing context is rather myopic. Plenty of people in relationships never explicitly grant consent to each other, but that doesn't mean they're raping each other.

[Enduro]

Why did you feel the need to post 8 excerpts?

[Doimper]

sure...it was uncouth, but letting him do it implies "consent".

Consent is never implied. It has to be explicit.

Eh, that's a very, very thorny subject. Discussing consent without discussing context is rather myopic. Plenty of people in relationships never explicitly grant consent to each other, but that doesn't mean they're raping each other.

Sure, I agree that there's a different dynamic in relationships and certain other situations, but it definitely applies in the context of Donald Trump groping random women.

[Reaganfan]

A few notes from her VP selection process.

- She wasn't too impressed with Warren, and Elizabeth Warren wasn't a popular figure around the Obama White House.

- Bill Clinton favored Tom Vilsack

- Tom Perez was unimpressive and "didn't make the cut."

- Her final shortlist was Kaine, Vilsack, Warren and Booker.

[Pericles]

I wanted her to pick Vilsack. He would have helped in the Midwest with rural whites and might not have embarassed himself against Mike Pence. It probably wouldn't have made a difference, but if I were her I'd have chosen Vilsack.

Does the book say if her speculated consideration of James Stavridis was ever serious?

[Reaganfan]

I wanted her to pick Vilsack. He would have helped in the Midwest with rural whites and might not have embarassed himself against Mike Pence. It probably wouldn't have made a difference, but if I were her I'd have chosen Vilsack.

Does the book say if her speculated consideration of James Stavridis was ever serious?

No mention of him.

This book really shows the fractures in the Democratic Party.

After the DNC, someone came up to Robby Mook and complimented the large American flags in the arena. Mook later told two friends, "That was to hide the crazy people shouting things."

It also seems this election clearly showed a loss for meritocracy, atleast for 2016.

After her "win" in the second debate, her aides told her, "You did a really good job...but we don't know how it will be perceived."

[mencken]

A few notes from her VP selection process.

- She wasn't too impressed with Warren, and Elizabeth Warren wasn't a popular figure around the Obama White House.

- Bill Clinton favored Tom Vilsack

- Tom Perez was unimpressive and "didn't make the cut."

- Her final shortlist was Kaine, Vilsack, Warren and Booker.

Bullcrap, we know from Wikileaks that Tim Kaine was the pick from the beginning.

[Famous Mortimer]

I wanted her to pick Vilsack. He would have helped in the Midwest with rural whites and might not have embarassed himself against Mike Pence. It probably wouldn't have made a difference, but if I were her I'd have chosen Vilsack.

Does the book say if her speculated consideration of James Stavridis was ever serious?

Kaine embarrassed himself against Pence? How did you come to that conclusion? Did you type "2016 VP debate" into the Random Opinion Generator?

[Reaganfan]

A few election night notes.

- Robby Mook had a feeling "something bad was about to happen".

- Her written concession speech was "tucked away".

- Trump's numbers in Florida weren't just big, they were unreal. In Polk County, Hillary received 3,000 votes more than Obama, but Trump received 25,000 votes more than Romney did in 2012.

"Florida and North Carolina don't look great, we need to see if this is a Southeast problem." Hillary was stone-faced and nodded and said "Okay" over and over calmly to Mook.

Bill Clinton said, "It's like Brexit. I guess it's real."

The White House phoned Robby Mook at 11pm and said, "The President doesn't think it's wise to drag this out."

It's quite telling how frantic Obama and other people in the Clinton camp were at wanting her to concede very quickly.

[exopolitician]

There's no getting around it, its really depressing to hear these accounts. It really shouldn't have gone this way.

The juicy behind the scenes details are what I live for honestly, but I agree.

[Shadows]

In May of 2015, as Hillary was planning her first major TV interview – an address the campaign hoped would put to rest criticism Hillary was avoiding the press over the burgeoning email scandal – communications chief Jennifer Palmieri asked Huma Abedin to ask Hillary who she wanted to conduct the interview. The answer that came back was that Hillary wanted to do the interview with "Brianna." Palmieri took this to mean CNN's Brianna Keilar, and worked to set up the interview, which aired on July 7th of that year.

Among other things, she asked Hillary questions like, "Would you vote for someone you didn't trust?" An aide describes Hillary as "staring daggers" at Keilar. Internally, the interview was viewed as a disaster. It turns out now it was all a mistake. Hillary had not wanted Brianna Keilar as an interviewer, but Bianna Golodryga of Yahoo! News, an excellent interviewer in her own right, but also one who happens to be the spouse of longtime Clinton administration aide Peter Orszag.

[Shadows]

Hillary after 2008 conducted a unique autopsy of her failed campaign. This reportedly included personally going back and reading through the email messages of her staffers: "She instructed a trusted aide to access the campaign's server and download the messages sent and received by top staffers. … She believed her campaign had failed her – not the other way around – and she wanted 'to see who was talking to who, who was leaking to who,' said a source familiar with the operation."

The Clinton campaign was convinced that Obama won in 2008 not because he was a better candidate, or buoyed by an electorate that was disgusted with the Iraq War. Obama won, they believed, because he had a better campaign operation – i.e., better Washingtonian puppeteers. In The Right Stuff terms, Obama's Germans were better than Hillary's Germans. "Mook knew that Hillary viewed almost every early decision through a 2008 lens: she thought almost everything her own campaign had done was flawed and everything Obama's had done was pristine."

Since Obama had spent efficiently and Hillary in 2008 had not, this led to spending cutbacks in the 2016 race in crucial areas, including the hiring of outreach staff in states like Michigan. This led to a string of similarly insane self-defeating decisions. As the book puts it, the "obsession with efficiency had come at the cost of broad voter contact in states that would become important battlegrounds."

[Shadows]

The Clinton campaign in 2016, for instance, never saw the Bernie Sanders campaign as being driven by millions of people who over the course of decades had become dissatisfied with the party. They instead saw one cheap stunt pulled by an illegitimate back-bencher, foolishness that would be ended if Sanders himself could somehow be removed.

"Bill and Hillary had wanted to put [Sanders] down like a junkyard dog early on," Allen and Parnes wrote. The only reason they didn't, they explained, was an irritating chance problem: Sanders "was liked," which meant going negative would backfire. Hillary had had the same problem with Barack Obama, with whom she and her husband had elected to go heavily negative in 2008, only to see that strategy go very wrong. "It boomeranged," as it's put in Shattered.

This traced back to 2008, a failed run that the Clintons had concluded was due to the disloyalty and treachery of staff and other Democrats. After that race, Hillary had aides create "loyalty scores" (from one for most loyal, to seven for most treacherous) for members of Congress. Bill Clinton since 2008 had "campaigned against some of the sevens" to "help knock them out of office," apparently to purify the Dem ranks heading into 2016.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-on-the-new-book-that-brutalizes-the-clinton-campaign-w477978

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

This traced back to 2008, a failed run that the Clintons had concluded was due to the disloyalty and treachery of staff and other Democrats. After that race, Hillary had aides create "loyalty scores" (from one for most loyal, to seven for most treacherous) for members of Congress. Bill Clinton since 2008 had "campaigned against some of the sevens" to "help knock them out of office," apparently to purify the Dem ranks heading into 2016.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-on-the-new-book-that-brutalizes-the-clinton-campaign-w477978

And they accuse progressives of being purity trolls. The party is mostly Clinton loyalist hack neoliberal trash.

[ApatheticAustrian]

it's absurd, that the hillary campaign is arguably the most transparent ever but the RNC deliberation before the nomination and the general republican leadership atmosphere while working with and against the trump campaign is like the engima.

[Inmate Trump]

I'm interested in reading it, but my emotions about that night are still pretty raw. There were definitely problems with the candidate and her campaign, but that in no way a justifies electing an outright authoritarian and demagogue to the White House.

Eventually, Trump voters will see this beyond strict party ID and ideology: he is and always has been wrong for our country, and better suited for a dictatorship.

Jeez. Calm down. He's not THAT bad.

He got caught on a hot mic bragging about raping women

Well, not raping. Just sexually assaulting a married woman. As she was walking towards him. I can't believe that's a distinction that must be made and I also can't believe how quickly Republicans have forgiven it. Partisanship is a pretty sad thing.

Incorrect.

He was bragging about how being famous allowed him to get laid. 11 years ago. When he told Billy Bush "They let me do it because I'm famous", sure...it was uncouth, but letting him do it implies "consent".

If Trump walked on water, you liberals would say he couldn't swim.

Before he said that they let him do anything he also said "I don't even wait" which implies that he was not asking for consent.

I think the generalization of Trump is ridiculous coming from liberals who always say "Don't generalize". He attacks Rosie O'Donnell. That doesn't mean he attacks "women". He attacks the Khan father. That doesn't mean he attacks "Gold star families".

If he yelled at one crazy liberal employee of a Wal-Mart, would that mean "Donald Trump yells at Wal-Mart employee(S)?" plural? No. He yelled at one.

"I moved on her. I tried, and I failed." If he was a "rapist" he wouldn't be saying how he "failed". You guys are ridiculous. This is why you lose elections.

This is why feminists always scream about all the rapes that go unpunished. Because under the actual law, they are not actual rapes.

I think that you (and other conservatives) have let Trump off the hook just goes to show how completely hypocritical you all are, considering Bill Clinton is often deemed a rapist by you lot.

If a tape of Hillary had been leaked saying something along the lines of, "I just walk right up and immediately grab their dicks, I don't even wait," what would your response be?  I would bet you a lot of money she would have been shamed much more than Trump ever was over his comments.

Regarding women, it was never just Rosie O'Donnell that Adolf talked badly about. If you don't already know that, then you haven't paid any serious attention at all during the last few years (even though his statements go back much further, I can't fault you for not knowing about them when he wasn't campaigning for prez).

If a Democratic presidential candidate said any of the following about women, how do you think conservatives would react?

"You're disgusting." (said to a breastfeeding mother)

"If ____ can't satisfy her husband, what makes her think she can satisfy America?"

"26,000 unreported sexual assults in the military-only 238 convictions. What did these geniuses expect when they put men & women together?"

"Look at that face. Would anybody vote for that?" (regarding a female contender)

"Yeah, she’s really something, and what a beauty, that one. If I weren’t happily married and, ya know, her father..."

"If _____ weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her."

"Now, somebody who a lot of people don’t give credit to but in actuality is really beautiful is Paris Hilton. I’ve known Paris Hilton from the time she’s 12. Her parents are friends of mine, and the first time I saw her she walked into a room and I said, ‘Who the hell is that?'"

"It must be a pretty picture, you dropping to your knees."

"It doesn't really matter what (they) write as long as you've got a young and beautiful piece of a**."

"Wonderful looking while on the ice but up close and personal, she could only be described as attractive if you like a woman with a bad complexion who is built like a linebacker."

"You have to treat em like sh**." (regarding women)

"I have days where, if I come home — and I don't want to sound too much like a chauvinist, but when I come home and dinner's not ready, I go through the roof."

"I think that putting a wife to work is a very dangerous thing."

"There are basically three types of women and reactions. One is the good woman who very much loves her future husband, solely for himself, but refuses to sign the agreement on principle. I fully understand this, but the man should take a pass anyway and find someone else. The other is the calculating woman who refuses to sign the prenuptial agreement because she is expecting to take advantage of the poor, unsuspecting sucker she’s got in her grasp. There is also the woman who will openly and quickly sign a prenuptial agreement in order to make a quick hit and take the money given to her."

I guarantee you that if a Democratic presidential candidate said even just one of those things, you would flip your lid (and rightfully so).

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Polk County is a perfect example of why I knew Trump would narrowly win FL. I went out there multiple times to camp with my relatives and there were Trump signs galore. Even the small country stores had "vote for Trump" lettered signs under the gas/boiled peanuts prices near the roadside.

This is what I was talking about when I was saying "look what's happening on the ground", but Ebsy and company laughed at me. Who is laughing now?

I have a close friend who goes to school out there. My Uncle drives through that entire slice of south-central Florida daily. The writing was on the wall-these people were going to turn on and turn out for Trump. The real shock and story is how Clinton failed to motivate her own base enough to mitigate the bleeding.

[RI]

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

They would have been better off with "So Trump Doesn't".

If the Clinton campaign could have successfully communicated panic instead of dull resignation to potential Democratic voters, she would have won.

Then again, as we already knew but this book seems to make clearer, if the Clinton campaign could have successfully communicated anything to potential democratic voters, she would have won.

In a way, Trump is partly the fault of everyone who had anything to do with the D primary process (myself included). We should never have allowed someone so bad at running a campaign to become the alternative to Trump.

[Antonio the Sixth]

W H A T

[Deblano]

Holy S***

But yeah, tell me again that Hillary Clinton was not an incompetent candidate.  /s

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Holy S***

But yeah, tell me again that Hillary Clinton was not an incompetent candidate.  /s

She really was the snowflake candidate. Bernie didn't go much after he because he was worried she'd be too damaged in the general election. The convention was set up to allow no criticism of her (compare to Cruz being allowed to speak at the RNC despite not endorsing). They knew she was a weak candidate, but didn't want to end up on her enemies list to be defeated, so they all went with her anyways.

[Deblano]

Holy S***

But yeah, tell me again that Hillary Clinton was not an incompetent candidate.  /s

She really was the snowflake candidate. Bernie didn't go much after he because he was worried she'd be too damaged in the general election. The convention was set up to allow no criticism of her (compare to Cruz being allowed to speak at the RNC despite not endorsing). They knew she was a weak candidate, but didn't want to end up on her enemies list to be defeated, so they all went with her anyways.

That's what really bugged me about the Clinton worship. Yes, I do agree that she would have been treated a bit differently if she were a male candidate, but the fact of the matter is that she had a lot of serious flaws, and her campaign and its vocal percentage of supporters had a hubris that made it almost insufferable to me and other voters.

When you lose a campaign, you lose. Period. You don't go "awww she was a weak candidate but she tried her hardest darnit and if it weren't for [insert scapegoat here] she would have won."

I will nitpick about the Cruz thing, I don't believe the RNC knew ahead of time that Cruz was gonna do the "vote your conscience" moment, which is what made that speech so shocking.