Trump escalates trade war with Canada: imposes tariffs on Canadian milk, lumber
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  Trump escalates trade war with Canada: imposes tariffs on Canadian milk, lumber
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Author Topic: Trump escalates trade war with Canada: imposes tariffs on Canadian milk, lumber  (Read 1952 times)
heatcharger
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« on: April 24, 2017, 06:15:59 PM »

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Let's see if Canada retaliates in some form. Not a win for real middle-class people as far as I'm concerned.
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Dr. Arch
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2017, 06:16:32 PM »

Oh dear lords
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2017, 06:20:38 PM »

Walker begged him to do something about the Canadians not taking Wisconsin milk, I don't think this is what he had in mind.
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Hindsight was 2020
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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2017, 06:31:07 PM »

Seriously the man is an unholy mix of both parties worst economic policy traits: cutting taxes for the rich with no goal on how to make up the deficit from the right and free market/trade messing that cases inflation from the left
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Matty
boshembechle
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2017, 06:56:02 PM »

How is legislation like this any different than pro-union legislation? It benefits workers in a particular industry the expense of consumers who bear higher costs.
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JerryArkansas
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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2017, 07:07:56 PM »

How is legislation like this any different than pro-union legislation? It benefits workers in a particular industry the expense of consumers who bear higher costs.
How in any way are they similar.  Unless in the warped mind of Republicans trade wars are beneficial to Americans.
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Torie
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2017, 07:12:33 PM »
« Edited: April 24, 2017, 07:14:25 PM by Torie »

How is legislation like this any different than pro-union legislation? It benefits workers in a particular industry the expense of consumers who bear higher costs.
How in any way are they similar.  Unless in the warped mind of Republicans trade wars are beneficial to Americans.

Tariffs raise the cost of goods or services. Unions to the extent they have the power to increase wages (they don't really except in highly oligopolistic industries, or monopolistic ones, the premier example of which is government), also increase the cost of goods or services. Just how much in either case is a subject of fierce debate (how much is a cost on capital and how much on the consumer?), but it is clearly more than zero or a de minimus amount.
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Matty
boshembechle
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2017, 07:13:07 PM »

How is legislation like this any different than pro-union legislation? It benefits workers in a particular industry the expense of consumers who bear higher costs.
How in any way are they similar.  Unless in the warped mind of Republicans trade wars are beneficial to Americans.

You think higher wages for union workers and more health benefits aren't passed onto the consumer?
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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2017, 07:16:14 PM »

How is legislation like this any different than pro-union legislation? It benefits workers in a particular industry the expense of consumers who bear higher costs.

1) the GOP has ridiculed and fought and destroyed unions since years to a point of no-return.

2) it is not benefiting anyone, it is mostly just cost-shifting.
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Matty
boshembechle
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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2017, 07:20:29 PM »

How is legislation like this any different than pro-union legislation? It benefits workers in a particular industry the expense of consumers who bear higher costs.

1) the GOP has ridiculed and fought and destroyed unions since years to a point of no-return.

2) it is not benefiting anyone, it is mostly just cost-shifting.
Unions died out on their own. Much like coal jobs. There is a reason like 70% of union americans work for the government. That number as late as 1999 was only like 30%

Ironically, tariffs like this may actually raise union rates because they will bring back american industry where unionism is common.
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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2017, 07:24:33 PM »

there will be no new push for unionization cause the trend is in the opposite direction anyway thanks for walker et al. - as we can see especially in the south, where would beed a real need for stronger unions - but if anyone believes trade wars are helping the american industry, bless your soul and pay your price peak.
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The_Doctor
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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2017, 07:38:56 PM »

The president is probably exercising statutory authority of some kind. But this is a dumb idea that will raise the price of lumber, furniture, and milk for no good reason. I assume this is a gambit to renegotiate NAFTA. As far as I know I don't think we ever had a problem with trade with Canada.
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Sumner 1868
tara gilesbie
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« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2017, 07:47:07 PM »

I completely approve of the lumber tariff. The rural Northwest has been devastated by the collapse of logging jobs and whatever remains should be protected as much as possible.

As far as I know I don't think we ever had a problem with trade with Canada.

We've had trade disputes with the Canadians since they became a confederation.
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Santander
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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2017, 07:52:30 PM »

The president is probably exercising statutory authority of some kind. But this is a dumb idea that will raise the price of lumber, furniture, and milk for no good reason. I assume this is a gambit to renegotiate NAFTA. As far as I know I don't think we ever had a problem with trade with Canada.
Softwood lumber is a very old dispute, and Canadian dairy is very protectionist, although an argument could be made that there's a lot of subsidies and/or protectionism in most countries' food/agriculture industries. You can still be friends while having serious disputes.
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ProudModerate2
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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2017, 07:57:25 PM »

Doesn't this need congressional approval? No way will the GOP pass this.

I believe it does.
This must just be "talk" (a threat) at this point, from the clownish administration.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2017, 08:04:03 PM »

The dispute over Canadian timber goes back as far as the Reagan administration.  This is nothing new and while Trump will likely handle this ineptly, for once the root cause of the problem is not due to his Orangeness.
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The_Doctor
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« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2017, 08:12:19 PM »

The president is probably exercising statutory authority of some kind. But this is a dumb idea that will raise the price of lumber, furniture, and milk for no good reason. I assume this is a gambit to renegotiate NAFTA. As far as I know I don't think we ever had a problem with trade with Canada.
Softwood lumber is a very old dispute, and Canadian dairy is very protectionist, although an argument could be made that there's a lot of subsidies and/or protectionism in most countries' food/agriculture industries. You can still be friends while having serious disputes.

It would be preferable from a policy standpoint to simply end subsidies on both sides.
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Illiniwek
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« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2017, 08:16:55 PM »

My wife: "Is that an onion article?"
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World politics is up Schmitt creek
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« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2017, 08:21:34 PM »

I have a friend one of whose coworkers switched her support from Clinton to Trump because she'd heard that Clinton would raise the price of milk, then started parroting right-wing talking points on every other issue too. When I read this thread, I immediately called this friend and told her she should bring it up with this coworker.
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Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
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« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2017, 10:21:03 PM »

And now we know what the Executive Branch version of the kid who didn't do any work on his class project all quarter looks like.
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JA
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« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2017, 11:15:15 PM »

Starting a trade war, especially with one of our closest allies and largest trade partners, isn't very smart policy. But Canada was subsidizing their logging and likely their dairy industry as well, thereby giving them an unfair advantage over American logging and dairy industries. That's the kind of free trade that has negatively affected American workers and industries for decades now. If they want to enjoy tariff free trade with us, then our industries should be on equal footing and thereby able to compete. Canada was given a 90 day notice in advance of this action to address the issues, but they refused.
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KingSweden
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« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2017, 11:15:22 PM »

The dispute over Canadian timber goes back as far as the Reagan administration.  This is nothing new and while Trump will likely handle this ineptly, for once the root cause of the problem is not due to his Orangeness.

Yeah this
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2017, 11:18:36 PM »

Unions offer two things that many workers need if they are to have any dignity on the job: (1) a grievance process, and (2) collective bargaining.

Union rules can keep bosses from playing favorites. Collective bargaining ensures that workers do not get their wages set by their incompetence at bargaining with an employer who can grind them down and inculcate fear of job loss on pay alone. For machine-paced work, a union contract ensures that people doing the same sort of work get the same pay, with an allowance for seniority.

In some activities a union can protect a worker from pressure from the organizations that misuse their authority. I am a teacher, and I set high standards for students. That is good teaching practice, but some kids think that I demean their culture by pushing them. (Uh, there are plenty of models of highly-successful black people, but as a rule today those are well-educated black people... if I were a real racist I would let bad behavior slide due to low expectations).
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dead0man
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« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2017, 08:59:32 AM »

see, he's still a Democrat.
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Blue3
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« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2017, 01:18:06 PM »

well this is taking up the press briefing so far
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