Does Blair really have to lock threads so damn often? :P

[Leinad]

I was going to comment how the crusade against AZ (which Blair apparently started before organizing a case why--odd decision) is, well, petty and borderline bullying (unless there is some Deeply Disturbing^TM information about AZ which Blair is sitting on that can convince me otherwise--and if there is, the question must again be raised as to why Blair didn't put these thoughts together before trying to expel someone).

But, alas, the thread was locked!

I'm not saying thread locking doesn't have it's place, but why would you lock threads so often? What's the worst that can happen? People actually--the horror--publicly debate things?!?

[Pragmatic Conservative]

He doesn't want a flame war.

[This account no longer in use.]

I would indeed enjoy knowing what the information that prompted 1184AZ's removal from Labor is.

[Leinad]

He doesn't want a flame war.

Is that not half the fun of the game?

I would indeed enjoy knowing what the information that prompted 1184AZ's removal from Labor is.

Yeah, I think we all do. I also want Blair to re-evaluate his definition of "shortly"

[Adam Griffin]

I'm sure the Chair will have his own list of incidents that'll be published that covers a lot of this, but here is what I've observed:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Really, I think #1 on its own is enough to consider such measures. However, if that were the only incident, this probably wouldn't be being discussed. Including all of these examples (whether they're individually worthy of expulsion or not) serves to paint the broader picture that many have known about and seen for a very long time.

In all my years as Chair, I never expelled anyone. Ever. And that was back when I had unilateral ability to throw anybody out of the Party that I felt like. Still, in all my years, I'm not sure I've ever encountered somebody who has been so disloyal, so dishonest and yet so committed to remaining under the umbrella of a Party he clearly doesn't give a damn about - despite its best to assist him, elect him and give him cover.

And to all of the Feds and other assorted softcocks who are looking to make political hay out of this: I say, go right ahead. Looks like victory either way from my perspective: either the message gets sent that all of this recent blatant disloyalty and disorganization in Labor is not going to be tolerated (at least I hope that's the case), or a bunch of people who are (less) comparable yet engaged in such behavior jump ship en masse like so many times before, and Labor can maybe return to the thing that made it great: a tight-knit group of friends and fellowship that always had each others' back and didn't worry about their "friendships" on the other side of the aisle when casting a ballot.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Labor can maybe return to the thing that made it great: a tight-knit group of friends and fellowship that always had each others' back and didn't worry about their "friendships" on the other side of the aisle when casting a ballot.

Unless of course the plotting of said tight nit group with a group of radicals third partiers potentially threatened to blow up the game right as an incumbent Laborite was leaving office as the first Labor President. You had his back all right, you grab him by the back and tossed him under the bus.

[Blair]

Yankee as you well know I voted to impeach members of my own party (if you're referring to summer '15) and as you remember I was speaker during the entire debacle, and I even came back during the end of Bore's presidency to help him as Interior Secretary,

I locked the thread because I'd spoken to AZ last night; I'd sent him the relevant information and spoken to other Laborites in the leadership. I didn't think that it would be best for me to frankly to post a sh**t ton of information (going back about 4 months) and then go to sleep, to have to spend 2 hours in the morning trying to defend it.

It's a matter that I want to keep in Labor; because I know for a fact that the moment I post it, a thread like this will be made, I'll get called a bully etc. If the former Senator is so worried about public accountability I'll happily post some of the information that I've received publicly, and I'll let Labors dirty laundry stretch all over Atlasia.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

Yankee as you well know I voted to impeach members of my own party (if you're referring to summer '15) and as you remember I was speaker during the entire debacle, and I even came back during the end of Bore's presidency to help him as Interior Secretary,

I locked the thread because I'd spoken to AZ last night; I'd sent him the relevant information and spoken to other Laborites in the leadership. I didn't think that it would be best for me to frankly to post a sh**t ton of information (going back about 4 months) and then go to sleep, to have to spend 2 hours in the morning trying to defend it.

It's a matter that I want to keep in Labor; because I know for a fact that the moment I post it, a thread like this will be made, I'll get called a bully etc. If the former Senator is so worried about public accountability I'll happily post some of the information that I've received publicly, and I'll let Labors dirty laundry stretch all over Atlasia.

The real question is, Is Blair staying as Labor Chair? Inquiring sources want to know

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Yankee as you well know I voted to impeach members of my own party (if you're referring to summer '15) and as you remember I was speaker during the entire debacle, and I even came back during the end of Bore's presidency to help him as Interior Secretary,

I locked the thread because I'd spoken to AZ last night; I'd sent him the relevant information and spoken to other Laborites in the leadership. I didn't think that it would be best for me to frankly to post a sh**t ton of information (going back about 4 months) and then go to sleep, to have to spend 2 hours in the morning trying to defend it.

It's a matter that I want to keep in Labor; because I know for a fact that the moment I post it, a thread like this will be made, I'll get called a bully etc. If the former Senator is so worried about public accountability I'll happily post some of the information that I've received publicly, and I'll let Labors dirty laundry stretch all over Atlasia.

Why are you addressing this to me? I didn't say anything about 2015 here.

[Blair]

Yankee as you well know I voted to impeach members of my own party (if you're referring to summer '15) and as you remember I was speaker during the entire debacle, and I even came back during the end of Bore's presidency to help him as Interior Secretary,

I locked the thread because I'd spoken to AZ last night; I'd sent him the relevant information and spoken to other Laborites in the leadership. I didn't think that it would be best for me to frankly to post a sh**t ton of information (going back about 4 months) and then go to sleep, to have to spend 2 hours in the morning trying to defend it.

It's a matter that I want to keep in Labor; because I know for a fact that the moment I post it, a thread like this will be made, I'll get called a bully etc. If the former Senator is so worried about public accountability I'll happily post some of the information that I've received publicly, and I'll let Labors dirty laundry stretch all over Atlasia.

The real question is, Is Blair staying as Labor Chair? Inquiring sources want to know

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=250846.0

Yankee as you well know I voted to impeach members of my own party (if you're referring to summer '15) and as you remember I was speaker during the entire debacle, and I even came back during the end of Bore's presidency to help him as Interior Secretary,

I locked the thread because I'd spoken to AZ last night; I'd sent him the relevant information and spoken to other Laborites in the leadership. I didn't think that it would be best for me to frankly to post a sh**t ton of information (going back about 4 months) and then go to sleep, to have to spend 2 hours in the morning trying to defend it.

It's a matter that I want to keep in Labor; because I know for a fact that the moment I post it, a thread like this will be made, I'll get called a bully etc. If the former Senator is so worried about public accountability I'll happily post some of the information that I've received publicly, and I'll let Labors dirty laundry stretch all over Atlasia.

Why are you addressing this to me? I didn't say anything about 2015 here.

I thought you were mentioning 2015 when you said people wanted to blow up the game; you know my pre-2015 history is a sketchy

[This account no longer in use.]

Thanks for the explanation; I can totally understand the reasoning now.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

Yankee as you well know I voted to impeach members of my own party (if you're referring to summer '15) and as you remember I was speaker during the entire debacle, and I even came back during the end of Bore's presidency to help him as Interior Secretary,

I locked the thread because I'd spoken to AZ last night; I'd sent him the relevant information and spoken to other Laborites in the leadership. I didn't think that it would be best for me to frankly to post a sh**t ton of information (going back about 4 months) and then go to sleep, to have to spend 2 hours in the morning trying to defend it.

It's a matter that I want to keep in Labor; because I know for a fact that the moment I post it, a thread like this will be made, I'll get called a bully etc. If the former Senator is so worried about public accountability I'll happily post some of the information that I've received publicly, and I'll let Labors dirty laundry stretch all over Atlasia.

The real question is, Is Blair staying as Labor Chair? Inquiring sources want to know

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=250846.0

Yankee as you well know I voted to impeach members of my own party (if you're referring to summer '15) and as you remember I was speaker during the entire debacle, and I even came back during the end of Bore's presidency to help him as Interior Secretary,

I locked the thread because I'd spoken to AZ last night; I'd sent him the relevant information and spoken to other Laborites in the leadership. I didn't think that it would be best for me to frankly to post a sh**t ton of information (going back about 4 months) and then go to sleep, to have to spend 2 hours in the morning trying to defend it.

It's a matter that I want to keep in Labor; because I know for a fact that the moment I post it, a thread like this will be made, I'll get called a bully etc. If the former Senator is so worried about public accountability I'll happily post some of the information that I've received publicly, and I'll let Labors dirty laundry stretch all over Atlasia.

Why are you addressing this to me? I didn't say anything about 2015 here.

I thought you were mentioning 2015 when you said people wanted to blow up the game; you know my pre-2015 history is a sketchy

I am actually rather relieved about this news

[Adam Griffin]

Labor can maybe return to the thing that made it great: a tight-knit group of friends and fellowship that always had each others' back and didn't worry about their "friendships" on the other side of the aisle when casting a ballot.

Unless of course the plotting of said tight nit group with a group of radicals third partiers potentially threatened to blow up the game right as an incumbent Laborite was leaving office as the first Labor President. You had his back all right, you grab him by the back and tossed him under the bus.

It's really sad that you keep harping about one little thing from 4 years ago that - in this case - had absolutely no impact on what's being discussed here. It also wasn't nearly as dramatic or earth-ending as you're painting it to be, nor did it actually ever harm the reputation or image of our esteemed President in the eyes of anybody (except apparently you, since you always cite it).

[Adam Griffin]

Yankee as you well know I voted to impeach members of my own party (if you're referring to summer '15)

No he's referring to Rimjob, which 90% of the game could care less about, doesn't remember and which did nothing but generate ample content for the game and its government for the better part of a month until the rigged Supreme Court threw out an airtight argument for the abolition of the chronically-dead Pacific.

Even the people who would be "outraged" about such a thing should know that the genesis for the game we now have (3 regions, bicameralism) was initiated as a result of that spark - and I couldn't be prouder for what it produced in the end. Rimjob was the first grenade of protest against a failed game structure that needed desperate reform, which was obvious to everybody then except for the Right who blocked the reforms for years until the game was on the utter verge of collapse across all fronts. Yankee's appeasement of that was certainly worse than anything I ever did.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Labor can maybe return to the thing that made it great: a tight-knit group of friends and fellowship that always had each others' back and didn't worry about their "friendships" on the other side of the aisle when casting a ballot.

Unless of course the plotting of said tight nit group with a group of radicals third partiers potentially threatened to blow up the game right as an incumbent Laborite was leaving office as the first Labor President. You had his back all right, you grab him by the back and tossed him under the bus.

It's really sad that you keep harping about one little thing from 4 years ago that - in this case - had absolutely no impact on what's being discussed here. It also wasn't nearly as dramatic or earth-ending as you're painting it to be, nor did it actually ever harm the reputation or image of our esteemed President in the eyes of anybody (except apparently you, since you always cite it).

You seem to ignore inconvenient truths for the sake of the narrative. But by all means, lets not let facts get in the way now.

It was still a collaboration with a bunch of non-Laborites (including even a Fed or two), contrary to the interests of someone who had to that point always been a Laborite (since that became a thing), which is kind of the crux of what you complain about. But you always seem to ignore that incident when raving about third parties, defections, disloyalty or whatnot.

[Adam Griffin]

Labor can maybe return to the thing that made it great: a tight-knit group of friends and fellowship that always had each others' back and didn't worry about their "friendships" on the other side of the aisle when casting a ballot.

Unless of course the plotting of said tight nit group with a group of radicals third partiers potentially threatened to blow up the game right as an incumbent Laborite was leaving office as the first Labor President. You had his back all right, you grab him by the back and tossed him under the bus.

It's really sad that you keep harping about one little thing from 4 years ago that - in this case - had absolutely no impact on what's being discussed here. It also wasn't nearly as dramatic or earth-ending as you're painting it to be, nor did it actually ever harm the reputation or image of our esteemed President in the eyes of anybody (except apparently you, since you always cite it).

You seem to ignore inconvenient truths for the sake of the narrative. But by all means, lets not let facts get in the way now.

It was still a collaboration with a bunch of non-Laborites (including even a Fed or two), contrary to the interests of someone who had to that point always been a Laborite (since that became a thing), which is kind of the crux of what you complain about. But you always seem to ignore that incident when raving about third parties, defections, disloyalty or whatnot.

Yes - amazingly! - there was a consensus across party lines even then that something needed to happen, because portions of the game were dead and overdue for a re-haul. So we acted, and we acted bigly, and inevitably, it did pay off.

OK, now let's talk about how you enabled Hagrid and others' selfish hostage-taking of the game reform package for 3 years - despite supposedly supporting it - until the game nearly dissolved before coming off of your perch, and then we'll talk about who's the bigger terrorist.


Anyway, nobody cares about a history lesson, Yankee, so how about you and I stop rambling about events that virtually nobody cares about anymore and let this thread be about what it was supposed to be about (political opportunism in the present)?

[Terry the Fat Shark]

do you guys have to argue about pre-reset stuff in every thread

[Associate Justice PiT]

     tl;dr AZ is being purged for not voting the right way. RIP AZ.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

do you guys have to argue about pre-reset stuff in every thread

When Adam gets nostalgic he tends to suffer from memory loss.

[Adam Griffin]

do you guys have to argue about pre-reset stuff in every thread

And when Yankee gets nostalgic he tends to engage in revisionist history

[Adam Griffin]

    tl;dr AZ is being purged for not voting the right way. RIP AZ.

Since the Federalists have been such close working colleagues as of late with the person in question, I look forward to that totally legitimate, well-founded trust, adoration and concern you guys have for him resulting in an invitation to join, along with electing him to office multiple times and maybe even a leadership position for him. After all, you guys never tried to expel him for doing the same kinds of things, right?

I motion to expel 1184AZ from the Federalist Party. It appears to me that he is a double agent sent from Labor to gain key Federalist information, he frequently pokes and prods in areas where he shouldn't and when things don't go his way accuses others of "manipulating him". I will not let this intrusion stand.

I'm not going to second this motion, but the way AZ has behaved lately raises a few eyebrows at best.

[Blair]

Disclaimer: I'm someone who ran against the sitting President of my own, and the person who built the entire party; I'm not here to give lectures about any one person 'towing the party line'. Over my time as Chair there have been countless times where Laborites have not voted for the Labor candidates; and I'd never dream of expelling someone for that.

This was a long term breakdown of trust between multiple members of Labor, and AZ.

1.) The entire debacle of him leaving labor, then endorsing me, then running as an independent, then rejoining labor etc back in October certainly didn't inspire any confidence. I got us to put that behind us, and sent him a PM saying 'let's draw a line under the sand', and that appeared to be working for a bit... but since then there's been an endless list of problems.

2.) There's evidence, (which I have logs for) that he tried to leak information, and suspicions that this leaking has occurred within the last months. It got to the extent where people would not publicly on #Labor when AZ was in the chat, because we suspected the information (e.g remaining votes, who's running etc) would get leaked.

3.) When confronted about said behavior I've seen at least two instances where AZ lied about his actions. Again I have the logs to prove such actions.

4.)In the last week alone he smeared a Labor official, and from what I've seen, possibly worked with members of another party to try and get an unnamed official in Labor to launch a 'coup against said offical.

5.) I would have been fine if he'd given a 1st to Leinad/Yankee etc (as several laborites did) But it was that Laborites had asked him how he was going to vote, which he didn't say and then waited until the last minute to place a bomb under our entire quest to get back the House.  After several people spend hours over the weekend, and before then working on this, you can see why it frustrated us.

This was not a one-off incident, but rather a never ending series of events, that were still sparking up just last week. The 5 above points were just stuff that I was able to find from my own PMs, and I know that other people in Labor themselves, have similar complaints and incidents involving AZ and Labor.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

    tl;dr AZ is being purged for not voting the right way. RIP AZ.

Since the Federalists have been such close working colleagues as of late with the person in question, I look forward to that totally legitimate, well-founded trust, adoration and concern you guys have for him resulting in an invitation to join, along with electing him to office multiple times and maybe even a leadership position for him. After all, you guys never tried to expel him for doing the same kinds of things, right?

I motion to expel 1184AZ from the Federalist Party. It appears to me that he is a double agent sent from Labor to gain key Federalist information, he frequently pokes and prods in areas where he shouldn't and when things don't go his way accuses others of "manipulating him". I will not let this intrusion stand.

I'm not going to second this motion, but the way AZ has behaved lately raises a few eyebrows at best.

Why drag me into this lol I didn't even comment. I did that because he tried to expel Santander based on labor propaganda, I also apologized to him the same day, heat of the moment

[Adam Griffin]

Why drag me into this lol I didn't even comment. I did that because he tried to expel Santander based on labor propaganda, I also apologized to him the same day, heat of the moment

It's not really a matter of wanting to "drag you into this": I posted it because multiple Feds felt this way at the time (I recall hearing it in the IRC chatrooms; a matter of untrustworthiness/disloyalty) and the reasons you gave are very poignant and line up perfectly with what has been offered here tonight as justification - and they certainly don't seem to be indicative of "I did it solely because he went after Santander". But I also posted it because PiT is being silly and he knows it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Yes - amazingly! - there was a consensus across party lines even then that something needed to happen, because portions of the game were dead and overdue for a re-haul. So we acted, and we acted bigly, and inevitably, it did pay off.

OK, now let's talk about how you enabled Hagrid and others' selfish hostage-taking of the game reform package for 3 years - despite supposedly supporting it - until the game nearly dissolved before coming off of your perch, and then we'll talk about who's the bigger terrorist.

Not the event that I was referring to. But you conflate the two, because to justify the former you claim it was necessary to produce the latter. But what was suppose to shock people or "force" people into accepting that regions had failed, turned out to be a rallying cry for the right, led to greater factionalism on the left and center around the issue and collateral issues such as the court, which further that even more.

Hardly the appropriate political climate to achieve a massive reform effort, as most would agree. But then again they don't need to defend such a controversial event by shielding it behind the reform effort.


I never said I "supported it" in 2013. My point, which you somehow misinterpreted or misunderstood or forgot the details of, was that the way reform was pushed in 2013, was that of a hostile, militantly anti-regionalist and thereby anti-right movement that naturally sparked partisan resistance. The CARCA map also eliminated the most conservative region in the game at the time.

I said then, that reform could not succeed along partisan lines and I was right. Consolidation only passed, with broad support, and the endorsement of the right and pro-regionalist supporters as the product of a compromise. Also, the political map had changed and the CARCA map by that point would produce a balanced map politically.

The Fourth Constitution was born of the "type" of reform and collaborative mindset championed by Maroduke, not that of schemes plotted on the IRC To "force" people to accept a faux reality of a fringe minority group that had been on the outside of politics for 5 years at that point. The atmosphere of 2015 was that of broad consensus. The atmosphere of 2013, ironically was that of a fringe group taking the game "hostage" to demand their reform and only their reform be adopted, and blocking all other attempts at reform from the other side (regionalizing Senate elections for instance), with no attempt at broad based compromise, like that which Truman, Leinad and others worked out in late 2015 and early 2016. There is a stark contrast, but one you can never accept because it sounds far too much like "Softcockery" to use your words.