Are Trump voters ruining America for all of us?

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Turning only three percent of Trump votes would be enough to 'turn' three states that made a difference ...

It's much less than 3%.
I think the number that has been flying around, is that if 77,000 voters (combined) in those 3 crucial states would have flipped, we would not have this 3-ring circus of a (supposed) executive branch.
Can someone confirm this, as I am not exactly sure.

Unfortunately for you, there are, what, 13% of Hillary voters who would not support her next time so good luck flipping those Trump voters (who don't actually flip to Hillary). Try keeping what you got by nominating someone actually better

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The average Trump voter is a 67 year old man who watches O'Reilly every day, resents the world for changing without his permission, and doesn't understand why his kids don't like talking to him. They are the worst.

Voting coalitions aren't the sort of thing that can be "averaged".

[Virginiá]

With that said, I could easily flip your point around and comment that Trump is getting pilloried for many of the same things that Obama did without incident. I suspect that much of what you're identifying is partisanship at work, and partisan myopia is nothing new.

Maybe, it depends. For instance, the golf issue - I never had a problem with Obama's vacations but I do with Trump's, but only because Trump so far seems set to spend what Obama did over 2 terms, in just a single year, even after Trump spent years complaining about Obama's golfing and even said he (Trump) may not play any golf as president (lol). Presidents need time to unwind, but within reason. Trump is casually treating the country's tax base as his own personal piggy bank in this regard.

Anyway, my point is, considering Trump was extremely well-covered, people who voted for him bear some responsibility in his success (or lack thereof). This is especially applicable, imo, to the party of personal responsibility. All Trump's conflicts of interests, his extensive history of lying, cheating and bad business practices, his intense hypocrisy, his lack of desire to actually learn anything about govt, his brash nature, the near-complete lack of ethics/morals - this was all on full display well before the election. People who willfully ignored this cannot, imo, be completely let off the hook.

But also keeping in mind that when I say "let off the hook," I'm only saying, they have absolutely no grounds to say what happens isn't partly their fault. The same goes for any person who votes for a candidate who is so transparent in their shortcomings, Democrat or Republican.

[Beet]

This article is really unnecessary.

1. When Trump voters voted for him, he was expected to lose. Hence, the moment the election was called for him, he already 'delivered' more for his supporters than they expected, while Hillary delivered less. For them to regret their votes, they would have to fall below the level of faith not only of November 9, 2016, but of November 8, 2016.

2. No one likes to admit they made a mistake. Asking someone if they regret their vote is probably a good way to elicit a 'no' response.

3. A lot of Trump voters were voting against Hillary. So just because they don't regret their vote, it doesn't mean they will always support Trump. Since the election, Hillary has been tarred as a loser, and criticized extensively, bringing her favorables down. In order for them to regret their vote, their drop in faith in Trump would have to overcome that.

So to sum, in order for a Trump supporter to regret their vote, their drop in faith in Trump would have to be substantial enough to (1) overcome the fact that Trump won, (2) overcome their own hesitating at admitting a mistake, and (3) overcoming the fact that Hillary lost.

Finally, after being tarred and insulted as "deplorables" who are "ruining America" for years, admitting that they regretted their vote would be a humiliating concession that the people calling them these names were, in some way shape or form, right, even if not in their direct attacks. For that reason alone, Trump voters may resist reevaluation.

Conversely, liberals have a perverse need for validation. Unrealistically soon after the election, I noticed articles zeroing in on supposed Trump regret stories. These articles reassure liberals that despite losing the election, they have won the argument after all, and tomorrow is a better day. When polls like this take that reassurance away, the liberal has a psychological crisis and lashes out at Trump voters with articles like this.

Part of the problem with liberals is that they place a very high emphasis on self-image. To them, Trump voters are the ugly, uneducated, boorish uncle who you wish you weren't associated with but have to anyway. And Trump is the manifestation of that relative's flaws on the highest stage, airing the dirty laundry for the entire world. He is an everyday reminder that this country doesn't live up to the image that liberals want it to have. He embarrasses them. And this embarrassment causes them to become angry at the voters, the people who put him there. Not realizing that the more these voters are castigated, the more they dig in their heels.

The bubble must end. The reflexive contempt that liberals have for anyone who does not think like them must end, for it is a block. When I first joined this forum almost 14 years ago there was a lot more debate, and discussion, between liberals and conservatives. We exchanged ideas, evidence, arguments. As the years have gone by I have seen more snark, opinion stating, and expressions of contempt without any content. This tendency is degrading our discourse. We must learn to talk to one another as equals again and engage in a dialogue of back and forth.

[Technocracy Timmy]

The average Trump voter is a 67 year old man who watches O'Reilly every day, resents the world for changing without his permission, and doesn't understand why his kids don't like talking to him. They are the worst.

Voting coalitions aren't the sort of thing that can be "averaged".

Trump:


Hillary:


Bernie:


Ted:

[All Along The Watchtower]

The average Trump voter is a 67 year old man who watches O'Reilly every day, resents the world for changing without his permission, and doesn't understand why his kids don't like talking to him. They are the worst.

Voting coalitions aren't the sort of thing that can be "averaged".

^^^Shout this from the rooftops, particularly on this forum.

[ProudModerate2]

Turning only three percent of Trump votes would be enough to 'turn' three states that made a difference ...

It's much less than 3%.
I think the number that has been flying around, is that if 77,000 voters (combined) in those 3 crucial states would have flipped, we would not have this 3-ring circus of a (supposed) executive branch.
Can someone confirm this, as I am not exactly sure.

Unfortunately for you, there are, what, 13% of Hillary voters who would not support her next time so good luck flipping those Trump voters (who don't actually flip to Hillary). Try keeping what you got by nominating someone actually better

Your comment is irrelevant, as we all know that Hillary will not run again.
Keep up with the times, why don't you.

[Chinggis]

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Okay, let's assume this is true for a second, because I think the article skirts a powerful point and then drops it. These questions are more important:

(1) Are people mad at the "elites" because something has genuinely gone wrong?
(2) If yes, what has gone wrong?
(3) What, if anything, can Democrats and the political left do to fix it?
(4) What, if anything, can Democrats and the political left do to communicate this?

[Hindsight was 2020]

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Okay, let's assume this is true for a second, because I think the article skirts a powerful point and then drops it. These questions are more important:

(1) Are people mad at the "elites" because something has genuinely gone wrong?
(2) If yes, what has gone wrong?
(3) What, if anything, can Democrats and the political left do to fix it?
(4) What, if anything, can Democrats and the political left do to communicate this?

1) the answer is no from the beginning of this country people have resented "the elite". People on the hard left want to use Trump's rise about free trade an dems not standing up to wallstreet enough when it has to do with how freakin stupid as a voting culture we are an the polarization of our media mainly from the RW

[Inmate Trump]

Torie, just curious why you edited my original post saying it was a copyright violation?

I've seen other people post articles, and copy/paste it in their post, but not be edited for a copyright violation. What gives?

[All Along The Watchtower]

Trump + his White House staff and Cabinet are, yeah. The voters are a mixed bag.

[TDAS04]

Not all Trump voters are bad people, but many of them have frightening attitudes.  In any case, the election of Trump is resulting in much destruction, and unfortunately, a majority of Trump voters will never acknowledge it.

[Bismarck]

This attitude that everyone who isn't a democrat is an idiot redneck is part of the reason why Trump won. No one will listen to the economic or policy messages of a party who regards their neighbors and families as terrible people. I considered voting for Clinton but didn't largely because I got the impression that she and especially those around her considered people like those I grew up around to be racist morons which is nonsense.

[Virginiá]

This attitude that everyone who isn't a democrat is an idiot redneck is part of the reason why Trump won.

That's not really what the article was saying. They specifically mentioned political literacy, and quite frankly, at least based on the tons of people I talked to while canvassing last year, I don't know if I can disagree. I heard a lot of crazy stuff / completely wrong statements from people of both parties. And it's not even just about people who pay attention but don't "get it," it's also about people who have no problem forming strong opinions but pay little attention to politics, which makes no sense to me. If you're going to have an opinion about something, you ought to know if its true or not, and that requires some research.

[Antonio the Sixth]

This article represents everything wrong with American liberalism.

[TDAS04]

This attitude that everyone who isn't a democrat is an idiot redneck is part of the reason why Trump won. No one will listen to the economic or policy messages of a party who regards their neighbors and families as terrible people. I considered voting for Clinton but didn't largely because I got the impression that she and especially those around her considered people like those I grew up around to be racist morons which is nonsense.

I get that it doesn't win votes to insult those you seek votes from.  Then again, "Hillary may be the better choice, she may be better for poor folks like me, but she probably thinks I'm an idiot.  So I'll vote for Trump" isn't the most logical attitude.

Democrats need to figure out how to communicate the obvious to struggling people, that Democrats are best choice for their economic interests, without seeming condescending.  I admit I'm not doing a good job at it right here, but it's hard to watch without pity how poor whites in Appalachia (or here in South Dakota, for that matter) vote overwhelmingly for the rich trash-talker who wants to take away their Obamacare.

[Associate Justice PiT]

This article is really unnecessary.

1. When Trump voters voted for him, he was expected to lose. Hence, the moment the election was called for him, he already 'delivered' more for his supporters than they expected, while Hillary delivered less. For them to regret their votes, they would have to fall below the level of faith not only of November 9, 2016, but of November 8, 2016.

2. No one likes to admit they made a mistake. Asking someone if they regret their vote is probably a good way to elicit a 'no' response.

3. A lot of Trump voters were voting against Hillary. So just because they don't regret their vote, it doesn't mean they will always support Trump. Since the election, Hillary has been tarred as a loser, and criticized extensively, bringing her favorables down. In order for them to regret their vote, their drop in faith in Trump would have to overcome that.

So to sum, in order for a Trump supporter to regret their vote, their drop in faith in Trump would have to be substantial enough to (1) overcome the fact that Trump won, (2) overcome their own hesitating at admitting a mistake, and (3) overcoming the fact that Hillary lost.

Finally, after being tarred and insulted as "deplorables" who are "ruining America" for years, admitting that they regretted their vote would be a humiliating concession that the people calling them these names were, in some way shape or form, right, even if not in their direct attacks. For that reason alone, Trump voters may resist reevaluation.

Conversely, liberals have a perverse need for validation. Unrealistically soon after the election, I noticed articles zeroing in on supposed Trump regret stories. These articles reassure liberals that despite losing the election, they have won the argument after all, and tomorrow is a better day. When polls like this take that reassurance away, the liberal has a psychological crisis and lashes out at Trump voters with articles like this.

Part of the problem with liberals is that they place a very high emphasis on self-image. To them, Trump voters are the ugly, uneducated, boorish uncle who you wish you weren't associated with but have to anyway. And Trump is the manifestation of that relative's flaws on the highest stage, airing the dirty laundry for the entire world. He is an everyday reminder that this country doesn't live up to the image that liberals want it to have. He embarrasses them. And this embarrassment causes them to become angry at the voters, the people who put him there. Not realizing that the more these voters are castigated, the more they dig in their heels.

The bubble must end. The reflexive contempt that liberals have for anyone who does not think like them must end, for it is a block. When I first joined this forum almost 14 years ago there was a lot more debate, and discussion, between liberals and conservatives. We exchanged ideas, evidence, arguments. As the years have gone by I have seen more snark, opinion stating, and expressions of contempt without any content. This tendency is degrading our discourse. We must learn to talk to one another as equals again and engage in a dialogue of back and forth.

     This is the best post I've seen in a long time. Your last paragraph in particular is really on point, and describes a phenomenon has driven a huge wedge between me and the left. I never agreed with them, but I used to respect them and value their opinions. Today, with a handful of exceptions, I really don't respect liberals or value their opinions, and I know the feeling is mutual.

     The effect of this is that I am largely relegated to discussing ideas with people on my own side, which naturally generates groupthink as ideas are not properly challenged. People become increasingly extreme as they hold to specious notions that are neither realistic nor well-conceived. Our country is in a hole, and de-escalating this partisanship and breaking down the echo chambers is the only way to dig it out of there. Yet, with how influential the internet has become and how easy it is to simply block your adversaries and ignore their opinions, this task will not be an easy one.

[Bismarck]

This attitude that everyone who isn't a democrat is an idiot redneck is part of the reason why Trump won.

That's not really what the article was saying. They specifically mentioned political literacy, and quite frankly, at least based on the tons of people I talked to while canvassing last year, I don't know if I can disagree. I heard a lot of crazy stuff / completely wrong statements from people of both parties. And it's not even just about people who pay attention but don't "get it," it's also about people who have no problem forming strong opinions but pay little attention to politics, which makes no sense to me. If you're going to have an opinion about something, you ought to know if its true or not, and that requires some research.

Oh I don't disagree with you, I was responding more to some of the comments in the thread than the article. I don't think it's one sided though, most voters of all stripes are pretty uninformed unfortunately.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Yeah libs condensation can get annoying but at the same time their is rightful frustration. We can rip on this article like this but for everyone one of these there are 3 "libs are anti-american cucks who have blood on their hands because *abortion/ISIS killing/illegal immigrant killing" on Brietbart/Drudge/Fox. Heck look at Fox I did a thread last month on how Fox has prime time shows openly say "liberals hate everything that is good" in an nonsarcastic way to cheers while I have never seen MSNBC at their worst act like that. Or how about the fact libs get rip on for online "safe spaces" but The_Donald on reddit or Brietbart bans anyone who criticizes or makes fun of Trump. So yeah lets not act like their is a bigotry of low expectations here where libs are time an time again demanded to be the adults in the room while the right has gone completely off the deep end an throws bombs like no tomorrow

[Beet]

This article is really unnecessary.

1. When Trump voters voted for him, he was expected to lose. Hence, the moment the election was called for him, he already 'delivered' more for his supporters than they expected, while Hillary delivered less. For them to regret their votes, they would have to fall below the level of faith not only of November 9, 2016, but of November 8, 2016.

2. No one likes to admit they made a mistake. Asking someone if they regret their vote is probably a good way to elicit a 'no' response.

3. A lot of Trump voters were voting against Hillary. So just because they don't regret their vote, it doesn't mean they will always support Trump. Since the election, Hillary has been tarred as a loser, and criticized extensively, bringing her favorables down. In order for them to regret their vote, their drop in faith in Trump would have to overcome that.

So to sum, in order for a Trump supporter to regret their vote, their drop in faith in Trump would have to be substantial enough to (1) overcome the fact that Trump won, (2) overcome their own hesitating at admitting a mistake, and (3) overcoming the fact that Hillary lost.

Finally, after being tarred and insulted as "deplorables" who are "ruining America" for years, admitting that they regretted their vote would be a humiliating concession that the people calling them these names were, in some way shape or form, right, even if not in their direct attacks. For that reason alone, Trump voters may resist reevaluation.

Conversely, liberals have a perverse need for validation. Unrealistically soon after the election, I noticed articles zeroing in on supposed Trump regret stories. These articles reassure liberals that despite losing the election, they have won the argument after all, and tomorrow is a better day. When polls like this take that reassurance away, the liberal has a psychological crisis and lashes out at Trump voters with articles like this.

Part of the problem with liberals is that they place a very high emphasis on self-image. To them, Trump voters are the ugly, uneducated, boorish uncle who you wish you weren't associated with but have to anyway. And Trump is the manifestation of that relative's flaws on the highest stage, airing the dirty laundry for the entire world. He is an everyday reminder that this country doesn't live up to the image that liberals want it to have. He embarrasses them. And this embarrassment causes them to become angry at the voters, the people who put him there. Not realizing that the more these voters are castigated, the more they dig in their heels.

The bubble must end. The reflexive contempt that liberals have for anyone who does not think like them must end, for it is a block. When I first joined this forum almost 14 years ago there was a lot more debate, and discussion, between liberals and conservatives. We exchanged ideas, evidence, arguments. As the years have gone by I have seen more snark, opinion stating, and expressions of contempt without any content. This tendency is degrading our discourse. We must learn to talk to one another as equals again and engage in a dialogue of back and forth.

     This is the best post I've seen in a long time. Your last paragraph in particular is really on point, and describes a phenomenon has driven a huge wedge between me and the left. I never agreed with them, but I used to respect them and value their opinions. Today, with a handful of exceptions, I really don't respect liberals or value their opinions, and I know the feeling is mutual.

     The effect of this is that I am largely relegated to discussing ideas with people on my own side, which naturally generates groupthink as ideas are not properly challenged. People become increasingly extreme as they hold to specious notions that are neither realistic nor well-conceived. Our country is in a hole, and de-escalating this partisanship and breaking down the echo chambers is the only way to dig it out of there. Yet, with how influential the internet has become and how easy it is to simply block your adversaries and ignore their opinions, this task will not be an easy one.

Thank you. You have always been one of the more reasonable conservatives around here. Be careful though, Trumpism thrives on incivility and hyperconfrontationism (which is why many of his supporters did so well in GamerGate, which was minimum substance and maximum drama/outrage) if what I advocated comes about, I think he would lose.

[ProudModerate2]

... but The_Donald on reddit or Brietbart bans anyone who criticizes or makes fun of Trump.

Do they really ?
So if I were to go there and refer to trump as "an orange-haired clown" like I do here, they would ban my username ?
I cant believe they would do that.

[pbrower2a]

Turning only three percent of Trump votes would be enough to 'turn' three states that made a difference ...

It's much less than 3%.
I think the number that has been flying around, is that if 77,000 voters (combined) in those 3 crucial states would have flipped, we would not have this 3-ring circus of a (supposed) executive branch.
Can someone confirm this, as I am not exactly sure.

Unfortunately for you, there are, what, 13% of Hillary voters who would not support her next time so good luck flipping those Trump voters (who don't actually flip to Hillary). Try keeping what you got by nominating someone actually better

The last President who won the popular vote but lost the electoral vote did not run in the next  election. I see no evidence that Hillary Clinton seeks to run for election in 2020. 

[Hindsight was 2020]

... but The_Donald on reddit or Brietbart bans anyone who criticizes or makes fun of Trump.

Do they really ?
So if I were to go there and refer to trump as "an orange-haired clown" like I do here, they would ban my username ?
I cant believe they would do that.

Yep I've heard stories banned over less

[Ronnie]

So to sum, in order for a Trump supporter to regret their vote, their drop in faith in Trump would have to be substantial enough to (1) overcome the fact that Trump won, (2) overcome their own hesitating at admitting a mistake, and (3) overcoming the fact that Hillary lost.

Finally, after being tarred and insulted as "deplorables" who are "ruining America" for years, admitting that they regretted their vote would be a humiliating concession that the people calling them these names were, in some way shape or form, right, even if not in their direct attacks. For that reason alone, Trump voters may resist reevaluation.

I agree with your points here, but I also think it's worth emphasizing the qualities of Trump himself that would compel his voters to remain loyal to him.  Politico recently posted an article that I think crystallizes the reasons that a significant chunk of his supporters are immensely happy with him.  They see him as someone who is willing to stand up for them and their values, and restore the vision of America that they feel has been slipping away from them.  They wanted a strongman in what they perceived were desperate times, and in Donald Trump, they have one.

[Hindsight was 2020]

So to sum, in order for a Trump supporter to regret their vote, their drop in faith in Trump would have to be substantial enough to (1) overcome the fact that Trump won, (2) overcome their own hesitating at admitting a mistake, and (3) overcoming the fact that Hillary lost.

Finally, after being tarred and insulted as "deplorables" who are "ruining America" for years, admitting that they regretted their vote would be a humiliating concession that the people calling them these names were, in some way shape or form, right, even if not in their direct attacks. For that reason alone, Trump voters may resist reevaluation.

I agree with your points here, but I also think it's worth emphasizing the qualities of Trump himself that would compel his voters to remain loyal to him.  Politico recently posted an article that I think crystallizes the reasons that a significant chunk of his supporters are immensely happy with him.  They see him as someone who is willing to stand up for them and their values, and restore the vision of America that they feel has been slipping away from them.  They wanted a strongman in what they perceived were desperate times, and in Donald Trump, they have one.

Hate to be the one to do this but "they want a strongman to restore their vision of America" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X6sXIoYOnps