Jesus seems to hate some things. Do you? Is hate good?
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  Jesus seems to hate some things. Do you? Is hate good?
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Author Topic: Jesus seems to hate some things. Do you? Is hate good?  (Read 3267 times)
Greatest I am
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« on: April 28, 2017, 09:20:07 PM »

Jesus seems to hate some things. Do you? Is hate good?

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Jesus seems to be saying that he is promoting division and war with a number of his sayings that pit father against son and brother against brother.

Jesus advocated division, war and hate; even as some think he preached to love our enemies.

Did Jesus hate and is hate thus a good character trait?

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DL
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NeverAgain
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2017, 10:01:35 PM »

let the states decide
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Nathan
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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2017, 10:47:21 PM »

WI: socially peace but fiscally sword
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Mopsus
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2017, 04:29:58 AM »

There's no life in this world without death. Likewise, there's no love in this world without hate.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2017, 12:19:22 PM »

There's no life in this world without death. Likewise, there's no love in this world without hate.

Oh great, as if we needed another HOT TAKE specialist in a thread like this.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2017, 01:07:32 PM »

jao
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Blue3
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2017, 02:00:32 PM »

He was emphasizing the point that, if you have to choose between family/friends and the right thing, choose the right thing. He also said to turn the other cheek and love your enemies.
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Mopsus
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2017, 02:32:42 PM »
« Edited: April 29, 2017, 02:42:36 PM by Mopolis »

There's no life in this world without death. Likewise, there's no love in this world without hate.

Oh great, as if we needed another HOT TAKE specialist in a thread like this.

Actually, if this take remains hot 2,500 years later, then Heraclitus has been vindicated once and for all.
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2017, 07:17:37 PM »

According to Christianity anyway, Jesus said to hate the sin and love the sinner. The question in this thread is more or less a realization of that paradox. It is undeniable Christianity does cause division, as does any belief. To say that something is true is to say the alternatives are false. One of the fastest ways to make enemies is to believe in something. We then ought to love those enemies while hating the lies they are promulgating.
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Zioneer
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« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2017, 08:28:17 PM »

These are the most inane threads.

But to answer your point, Jesus was making the point that his teachings would pit brother against brother and father against son, not because of their content, but because even families would disagree (violently) about said teachings.
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JA
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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2017, 05:56:08 AM »

There's no life in this world without death. Likewise, there's no love in this world without hate.

In other news, Earth is mostly water and humans require oxygen to survive.

He was emphasizing the point that, if you have to choose between family/friends and the right thing, choose the right thing. He also said to turn the other cheek and love your enemies.

Are instructions to "dash their babies against rocks" and kill adulteresses part of "love your enemies?"
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Mopsus
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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2017, 08:58:52 AM »

He was emphasizing the point that, if you have to choose between family/friends and the right thing, choose the right thing. He also said to turn the other cheek and love your enemies.

Are instructions to "dash their babies against rocks" and kill adulteresses part of "love your enemies?"

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+19:14
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8%3A1-11&version=KJV
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afleitch
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« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2017, 10:55:33 AM »

Matthew 11:20
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Mopsus
MOPolitico
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« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2017, 11:24:58 AM »


Wouldn't you condemn towns where adulteresses were stoned and men fantasized about killing gentile babies?
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JA
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« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2017, 11:40:22 AM »

He was emphasizing the point that, if you have to choose between family/friends and the right thing, choose the right thing. He also said to turn the other cheek and love your enemies.

Are instructions to "dash their babies against rocks" and kill adulteresses part of "love your enemies?"

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+19:14
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8%3A1-11&version=KJV

There's no doubt that there's a lot of good ethical views espoused in the NT, but the OT is not to simply be ignored. The same God of the OT is the Father described in the NT, and Jesus came to fulfill His laws and commandments. The two cannot be separated, nor can we simply ignore or dismiss the values espoused in the OT.
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Mopsus
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« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2017, 11:45:34 AM »

There's no doubt that there's a lot of good ethical views espoused in the NT, but the OT is not to simply be ignored. The same God of the OT is the Father described in the NT, and Jesus came to fulfill His laws and commandments. The two cannot be separated, nor can we simply ignore or dismiss the values espoused in the OT.

If Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law, then the Law must be reinterpreted in light of his teachings, no?
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afleitch
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« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2017, 12:44:34 PM »


Wouldn't you condemn towns where adulteresses were stoned and men fantasized about killing gentile babies?

No. I wouldn't condemn an entire town and all it's inhabitants no.
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Mopsus
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« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2017, 12:52:20 PM »


Wouldn't you condemn towns where adulteresses were stoned and men fantasized about killing gentile babies?

No. I wouldn't condemn an entire town and all it's inhabitants no.

Dissenting townspeople could have followed Jesus into the Kingdom of Heaven. Instead, they chose to sit quietly among the unrepentant.
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afleitch
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« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2017, 01:43:57 PM »


Wouldn't you condemn towns where adulteresses were stoned and men fantasized about killing gentile babies?

No. I wouldn't condemn an entire town and all it's inhabitants no.

Dissenting townspeople could have followed Jesus into the Kingdom of Heaven. Instead, they chose to sit quietly among the unrepentant.

He condemned Capernaum, but it remained inhabited for 1000 years. He healed the centurions slave there, and Simon Peter's mother in law. Yet he curses the whole city? How petulant.
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Mopsus
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« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2017, 01:51:57 PM »


Wouldn't you condemn towns where adulteresses were stoned and men fantasized about killing gentile babies?

No. I wouldn't condemn an entire town and all it's inhabitants no.

Dissenting townspeople could have followed Jesus into the Kingdom of Heaven. Instead, they chose to sit quietly among the unrepentant.

He condemned Capernaum, but it remained inhabited for 1000 years.

But did its inhabitants live for 1000 years?

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"For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it." - Genesis 18:32
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afleitch
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« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2017, 02:21:12 PM »

Probably not helpful to post a quotation from Genesis which is the same book in which the entire world is wiped out in a flood. Again, something I wouldn't do.
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Mopsus
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« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2017, 02:57:27 PM »

Probably not helpful to post a quotation from Genesis which is the same book in which the entire world is wiped out in a flood. Again, something I wouldn't do.

Unfortunately for the world, there were fewer than ten righteous men in the whole joint. Those there were, however, were saved.
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Nathan
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« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2017, 03:52:32 PM »
« Edited: April 30, 2017, 06:06:56 PM by modern maverick »

Probably not helpful to post a quotation from Genesis which is the same book in which the entire world is wiped out in a flood. Again, something I wouldn't do.

Unfortunately for the world, there were fewer than ten righteous men in the whole joint. Those there were, however, were saved.

You're conflating the Flood story with the Cities of the Plain story.

Also, this is just my opinion, but I think the OT/NT moral theology distinction is overplayed to the point of frequent disingenuousness and typically used (by Christians) in the service of terrible "dispensationalist" (at best) theology or (by non-Christians) in the service of an attempt to maintain a high view of Jesus that I don't think a secular worldview should really be expected to support. There are numerous passages of overflowing mercy and benevolence in the Hebrew Bible and not a few passages of terrifying harshness and judgment in the Gospels.
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Mopsus
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« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2017, 03:58:23 PM »

Unfortunately for the world, there were fewer than ten righteous men in the whole joint. Those there were, however, were saved.

You're conflating the Flood story with the Cities of the Plain story.

No, I'm extrapolating: If God would spare an entire city for the sake of ten righteous men, how far beyond redemption was the antediluvian world?
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Nathan
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« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2017, 06:06:25 PM »

Unfortunately for the world, there were fewer than ten righteous men in the whole joint. Those there were, however, were saved.

You're conflating the Flood story with the Cities of the Plain story.

No, I'm extrapolating: If God would spare an entire city for the sake of ten righteous men, how far beyond redemption was the antediluvian world?

That, actually, is an interesting question. Sorry for making assumptions.
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