Jesus seems to hate some things. Do you? Is hate good?

[afleitch]

Unfortunately for the world, there were fewer than ten righteous men in the whole joint. Those there were, however, were saved.

You're conflating the Flood story with the Cities of the Plain story.

No, I'm extrapolating: If God would spare an entire city for the sake of ten righteous men, how far beyond redemption was the antediluvian world?

Why does god end violence with greater acts of violence? Again, why is his response always disproportionate? Why are we more temperate and measured in our response to slights against us?

[Mopsus]

Why does god end violence with greater acts of violence? Again, why is his response always disproportionate? Why are we more temperate and measured in our response to slights against us?

Lamech killed a young man for striking him; that was the state of humanity before the Flood, after God preserved Cain's life in spite of the demands of earthly justice. As a thanks, we initiated a cycle of bloodletting that had no conceivable terminus. Global baptism was the only cure.

[afleitch]

Why does god end violence with greater acts of violence? Again, why is his response always disproportionate? Why are we more temperate and measured in our response to slights against us?

Lamech killed a young man for striking him; that was the state of humanity before the Flood, after God preserved Cain's life in spite of the demands of earthly justice. As a thanks, we initiated a cycle of bloodletting that had no conceivable terminus. Global baptism was the only cure.

And god sent she bears to kill 42 children for making fun of a bald prophet. He slaughtered children for doing what children do. Again, why is god so agressively inhuman and disproportionate in his responses? Why do we display better core moral restraints?

[Enduro]

Where did you get the idea that Jesus promoted war? I've never read that in my Bible.

[Mopsus]

Why does god end violence with greater acts of violence? Again, why is his response always disproportionate? Why are we more temperate and measured in our response to slights against us?

Lamech killed a young man for striking him; that was the state of humanity before the Flood, after God preserved Cain's life in spite of the demands of earthly justice. As a thanks, we initiated a cycle of bloodletting that had no conceivable terminus. Global baptism was the only cure.

And god sent she bears to kill 42 children for making fun of a bald prophet. He slaughtered children for doing what children do. Again, why is god so agressively inhuman and disproportionate in his responses? Why do we display better core moral restraints?

Before Elijah ascended to Heaven, his disciple Elisha asked for a double portion of his spirit; Elijah called this "a hard thing", but granted it to him anyway. Shortly thereafter, Elisha cursed a group of children who were mocking him, and as a result, they were quickly eaten up by bears.

The point isn't the severity of God's punishment, but the capriciousness of man's power.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Also, this is just my opinion, but I think the OT/NT moral theology distinction is overplayed to the point of frequent disingenuousness and typically used (by Christians) in the service of terrible "dispensationalist" (at best) theology or (by non-Christians) in the service of an attempt to maintain a high view of Jesus that I don't think a secular worldview should really be expected to support. There are numerous passages of overflowing mercy and benevolence in the Hebrew Bible and not a few passages of terrifying harshness and judgment in the Gospels.

The root of this is, as I'm guessing you know but not everyone here will, 19th century intellectual antisemitism.

[Greatest I am]

There's no life in this world without death. Likewise, there's no love in this world without hate.

I agree. To love well must include knowing how to hate well.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

He was emphasizing the point that, if you have to choose between family/friends and the right thing, choose the right thing. He also said to turn the other cheek and love your enemies.

A sword is hardly a tool of love.

Can you love the one raping your wife or child?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

According to Christianity anyway, Jesus said to hate the sin and love the sinner. The question in this thread is more or less a realization of that paradox. It is undeniable Christianity does cause division, as does any belief. To say that something is true is to say the alternatives are false. One of the fastest ways to make enemies is to believe in something. We then ought to love those enemies while hating the lies they are promulgating.

In terms of speech and ideas, that might be possible, but not in terms of actions.

I asked another just above if he could love the one raping his wife or daughter to exemplify how foolish the love the sinner while hating the sin.

If God wanted to live by that, he would punish the sin and not the sinner whom he must hate if he is going to subject his soul to hell.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

There's no doubt that there's a lot of good ethical views espoused in the NT, but the OT is not to simply be ignored. The same God of the OT is the Father described in the NT, and Jesus came to fulfill His laws and commandments. The two cannot be separated, nor can we simply ignore or dismiss the values espoused in the OT.

If Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law, then the Law must be reinterpreted in light of his teachings, no?

Good point and yes.

Part of that teaching is Jesus' no divorce law. He agreed with Yahweh who said let no man put asunder.

That no divorce law would force people to live in loveless or abusive relationships and is thus anti-love and unjust.

Do you agree?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Why does god end violence with greater acts of violence? Again, why is his response always disproportionate? Why are we more temperate and measured in our response to slights against us?

Lamech killed a young man for striking him; that was the state of humanity before the Flood, after God preserved Cain's life in spite of the demands of earthly justice. As a thanks, we initiated a cycle of bloodletting that had no conceivable terminus. Global baptism was the only cure.

??

Are you saying that God can only kill and cannot cure?

That would suggest that God, who is said to be all powerful, which would include an all powerful power of persuasion, must take the immoral low ground of killing because he cannot take the moral high ground and cure.

Perhaps you are right but even doing nothing is more moral than killing instead of curing.

Regards
DL
 

[Greatest I am]

Where did you get the idea that Jesus promoted war? I've never read that in my Bible.

http://biblehub.com/matthew/10-34.htm

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

“If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."

http://biblehub.com/luke/19-27.htm

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Regards
DL

[Blue3]

Why don't you defend your views in the Gnosticism versus Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant thread?

[Mopsus]

Can you love the one raping your wife or child?

Sure. What if your daughter rapes your wife?

Part of that teaching is Jesus' no divorce law. He agreed with Yahweh who said let no man put asunder.

That no divorce law would force people to live in loveless or abusive relationships and is thus anti-love and unjust.

Do you agree?

Story's an allegory: Jesus wasn't talking about the marriage between men and women, but the marriage between God and man. What he said to his disciples afterwards still stands, however.

Are you saying that God can only kill and cannot cure?

That would suggest that God, who is said to be all powerful, which would include an all powerful power of persuasion, must take the immoral low ground of killing because he cannot take the moral high ground and cure.

Perhaps you are right but even doing nothing is more moral than killing instead of curing.

What happened is that the children of Cain had contaminated the earth with their violence, each generation becoming more unjust than the last. In the Uncreation, the bad blood was washed away, and the Noahide Laws were set up to hold back future tides of violence. Of course, God knows that we've often strayed from those laws, but he's storing up a second baptism for us - not one of water, but one of fire.

[Greatest I am]

Why don't you defend your views in the Gnosticism versus Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant thread?

Because I had not seen it. I did just find it and will have a look.

Thanks for the heads up.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Can you love the one raping your wife or child?

Sure. What if your daughter rapes your wife?

Part of that teaching is Jesus' no divorce law. He agreed with Yahweh who said let no man put asunder.

That no divorce law would force people to live in loveless or abusive relationships and is thus anti-love and unjust.

Do you agree?

Story's an allegory: Jesus wasn't talking about the marriage between men and women, but the marriage between God and man. What he said to his disciples afterwards still stands, however.

Are you saying that God can only kill and cannot cure?

That would suggest that God, who is said to be all powerful, which would include an all powerful power of persuasion, must take the immoral low ground of killing because he cannot take the moral high ground and cure.

Perhaps you are right but even doing nothing is more moral than killing instead of curing.

What happened is that the children of Cain had contaminated the earth with their violence, each generation becoming more unjust than the last. In the Uncreation, the bad blood was washed away, and the Noahide Laws were set up to hold back future tides of violence. Of course, God knows that we've often strayed from those laws, but he's storing up a second baptism for us - not one of water, but one of fire.

No one is this bad of a bible reader so I guess you were still on a roll from youre first really stupid statement.

You could not answer that intelligently so I guess you just styed in your stupid zone for the rest.

Regards
DL
Regards
DL

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Can you love the one raping your wife or child?

Sure. What if your daughter rapes your wife?

Part of that teaching is Jesus' no divorce law. He agreed with Yahweh who said let no man put asunder.

That no divorce law would force people to live in loveless or abusive relationships and is thus anti-love and unjust.

Do you agree?

Story's an allegory: Jesus wasn't talking about the marriage between men and women, but the marriage between God and man. What he said to his disciples afterwards still stands, however.

Are you saying that God can only kill and cannot cure?

That would suggest that God, who is said to be all powerful, which would include an all powerful power of persuasion, must take the immoral low ground of killing because he cannot take the moral high ground and cure.

Perhaps you are right but even doing nothing is more moral than killing instead of curing.

What happened is that the children of Cain had contaminated the earth with their violence, each generation becoming more unjust than the last. In the Uncreation, the bad blood was washed away, and the Noahide Laws were set up to hold back future tides of violence. Of course, God knows that we've often strayed from those laws, but he's storing up a second baptism for us - not one of water, but one of fire.

No one is this bad of a bible reader so I guess you were still on a roll from youre first really stupid statement.

You could not answer that intelligently so I guess you just styed in your stupid zone for the rest.

Regards
DL
Regards
DL

I certainly wouldn't want to be a Gnostic Christian if it makes one this much of an arrogant, insulting blowhard.

[Mopsus]

youre

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[Greatest I am]

[

I certainly wouldn't want to be a Gnostic Christian if it makes one this much of an arrogant, insulting blowhard.

So you do not like certainty of thought and a guy that follows the little bit of wisdom in the bible.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Oh well.

Do you correct the foolish thinking of your children and would they hot think of you as an arrogant, insulting blowhard.

Likely yes, child.

Regards
DL

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

[

I certainly wouldn't want to be a Gnostic Christian if it makes one this much of an arrogant, insulting blowhard.

So you do not like certainty of thought and a guy that follows the little bit of wisdom in the bible.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Oh well.

Do you correct the foolish thinking of your children and would they hot think of you as an arrogant, insulting blowhard.

Likely yes, child.

Regards
DL

Gratuitously insulting children in the process of correcting them is typically understood to be a form of emotional abuse, so no, if I ever have children, I don't in fact intend to treat them the way you treat other posters.

[SingingAnalyst]

Passion often results in passionately hating certain things (e.g., apathy, stupidity).

As a Christian, I believe the essence of what Jesus teaches me (after one gets past textual authenticity questions and cultural trappings like agriculture and slavery) is: (1) forgive others when it is at all reasonable to do so, out of the realization that none of us is perfect; and (2) stand up for the underdog, for the one unfairly attacked (as Jesus did to the man who was never able to swim because someone always beat him to it).

[Greatest I am]

[

I certainly wouldn't want to be a Gnostic Christian if it makes one this much of an arrogant, insulting blowhard.

So you do not like certainty of thought and a guy that follows the little bit of wisdom in the bible.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Oh well.

Do you correct the foolish thinking of your children and would they hot think of you as an arrogant, insulting blowhard.

Likely yes, child.

Regards
DL

Gratuitously insulting children in the process of correcting them is typically understood to be a form of emotional abuse, so no, if I ever have children, I don't in fact intend to treat them the way you treat other posters.

Good for you, but you have to remember that most theists I correct have help foolish notions for a long time.

If a soft touch was effective, I would use it.

I have had soft friends with loving hearts go with me when they have agreed with my moral views but theist sh**t on them just as much as on me.

When delusional idol worshipers start to heal their dysfunctional thinking, then I will happily just give the facts and they will have the mental capability of shedding their love of their genocidal son murdering prick of a God.

If you want to give me lessons, go ahead.

How would you change the mind of a delusional guy who believes that some guy in the sky is God and even though he murders children and babies, that God is still a nice guy?

Regards
DL

 

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

[

I certainly wouldn't want to be a Gnostic Christian if it makes one this much of an arrogant, insulting blowhard.

So you do not like certainty of thought and a guy that follows the little bit of wisdom in the bible.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Oh well.

Do you correct the foolish thinking of your children and would they hot think of you as an arrogant, insulting blowhard.

Likely yes, child.

Regards
DL

Gratuitously insulting children in the process of correcting them is typically understood to be a form of emotional abuse, so no, if I ever have children, I don't in fact intend to treat them the way you treat other posters.

Good for you, but you have to remember that most theists I correct have help foolish notions for a long time.

If a soft touch was effective, I would use it.

I have had soft friends with loving hearts go with me when they have agreed with my moral views but theist sh**t on them just as much as on me.

When delusional idol worshipers start to heal their dysfunctional thinking, then I will happily just give the facts and they will have the mental capability of shedding their love of their genocidal son murdering prick of a God.

If you want to give me lessons, go ahead.

How would you change the mind of a delusional guy who believes that some guy in the sky is God and even though he murders children and babies, that God is still a nice guy?

Regards
DL

 

...I'd gently try to convince people of my beliefs if they'd expressed openness to hearing about it, but be fine with them continuing to hold their existing beliefs if they hadn't or if it didn't work, like a normal f**king person in a tolerant society?

[Greatest I am]

[

I certainly wouldn't want to be a Gnostic Christian if it makes one this much of an arrogant, insulting blowhard.

So you do not like certainty of thought and a guy that follows the little bit of wisdom in the bible.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Oh well.

Do you correct the foolish thinking of your children and would they hot think of you as an arrogant, insulting blowhard.

Likely yes, child.

Regards
DL

Gratuitously insulting children in the process of correcting them is typically understood to be a form of emotional abuse, so no, if I ever have children, I don't in fact intend to treat them the way you treat other posters.

Good for you, but you have to remember that most theists I correct have help foolish notions for a long time.

If a soft touch was effective, I would use it.

I have had soft friends with loving hearts go with me when they have agreed with my moral views but theist sh**t on them just as much as on me.

When delusional idol worshipers start to heal their dysfunctional thinking, then I will happily just give the facts and they will have the mental capability of shedding their love of their genocidal son murdering prick of a God.

If you want to give me lessons, go ahead.

How would you change the mind of a delusional guy who believes that some guy in the sky is God and even though he murders children and babies, that God is still a nice guy?

Regards
DL

 

...I'd gently try to convince people of my beliefs if they'd expressed openness to hearing about it, but be fine with them continuing to hold their existing beliefs if they hadn't or if it didn't work, like a normal f**king person in a tolerant society?

Idol worshipers do not have openness to ideas that are not in line with there idol.

The Netherlands is one of the most tolerant nations on earth and they could not get through to intolerant idol worshiping Muslims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSms8nbgTSI

Regards
DL