Vox Populi - 1975 Welsh and Scottish Devolution Referendums

[Lumine]

August 1975 - The SNP and Plaid spearhead devolution referendums

Unable to find other partners to form a government, Labour leader Peter Shore decided to make a deal with the Scottish National Party and Plaid Cymru to secure a supply and confidence arrangement to give him a (bare) majority on key votes. While highly controversial among many Labour MP's, the deal was finally closed after giving several consessions to both nationalist parties and, more importantly, key referendums on devolution for Scotland and Wales to be held during the second half of that year. Prime Minister Shore got to work, and despite a significant revolt among Scottish and Welsh Labour MP's Liberal support ensured the Government's proposals for both referendums survived. Wales and Scotland would therefore now vote on:

Basic Proposal: A limited Scottish Assembly and a Welsh Assembly, both taking control over several areas of domestic policy and having a "First Secretary" as an executive (replacing the Secretaries of State of Wales and Scotland). Both legislatures bodies will be elected via FPTP.

Yes Campaign: Leading the Yes side is the Scottish National Party in Scotland and Plaid Cymru in Wales, the first regarding it a stepping stone towards independence and the second as a key goal and accomplishment for the region. Supporting them as well is the Liberal Party under Eric Lubbock, and the majority of the Labour Party under Prime Minister Shore. This side argues Wales and Scotland deserve a devolved administration as shown by the voters in the past two General Elections, and that these Assemblies would strengthen the United Kingdom.

No Campaign: Leading the No Campaign is Enoch Powell and the Conservative Party, taking a staunch unionist line by arguing that both regions do not need these devolved assemblies. Powell and the Conservatives have attempted to make the case that in Scotland this would only lead to give more support to the independence cause of the SNP and lead to the inevitable break-up of the United Kingdom. Also supporting a No vote in a separate manner are the National Labour MP's and a minority of the Labour Party (some Callaghanites and some regional MP's), as well as hardline nationalists who find the proposals too weak.

Two days for this one.

[Kingpoleon]

Yes! The Liberals are the party of neither strict unionism nor independence but rather the party of devolution.

[Wake Me Up When The Hard Border Ends]

No in both Cymru and Alba.

[Illiniwek]

Yes

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

Yes for Wales, No for Scotland

[Barnes]

Was there anything like the 40% threshold imposed on results as IRL?

[Lumine]

Was there anything like the 40% threshold imposed on results as IRL?

There was, to avoid a deeper conflict inside Labour. But with the SNP and Plaid having such a large vote share, the thresholds will be met.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I think your polls in the general election artificially overinflate PC and SNP's scores, because even a handful of votes automatically hit the threshold to max their seats. It would probably be better if you had two polls in the general election, one for England, and one for Scotland + Wales.

[Lumine]

I think your polls in the general election artificially overinflate PC and SNP's scores, because even a handful of votes automatically hit the threshold to max their seats. It would probably be better if you had two polls in the general election, one for England, and one for Scotland + Wales.

I was concerned about that happening, and to be fair it has. Two polls would be too much for my taste, really, so I'm trying to think of penalties or limits to be imposed.

[Clyde1998]

I think your polls in the general election artificially overinflate PC and SNP's scores, because even a handful of votes automatically hit the threshold to max their seats. It would probably be better if you had two polls in the general election, one for England, and one for Scotland + Wales.

I was concerned about that happening, and to be fair it has. Two polls would be too much for my taste, really, so I'm trying to think of penalties or limits to be imposed.

Perhaps having an English and Scottish+Welsh poll being part of the same vote with voters having two votes; as you've done here?

[MAINEiac4434]

Tha/Ie

[IceAgeComing]

Yes for Wales, No for Scotland

...  This position seems incredibly hypocritical...

[Lumine]

I think your polls in the general election artificially overinflate PC and SNP's scores, because even a handful of votes automatically hit the threshold to max their seats. It would probably be better if you had two polls in the general election, one for England, and one for Scotland + Wales.

I was concerned about that happening, and to be fair it has. Two polls would be too much for my taste, really, so I'm trying to think of penalties or limits to be imposed.

Perhaps having an English and Scottish+Welsh poll being part of the same vote with voters having two votes; as you've done here?

While a better option than the first, I still think that's too much of a problem. I think I might consider the 1972 and January 1975 voteshare of Plaid and the SNP and then grade it appropiately (x% of total votes = x% of the Scottish/Welsh vote to account for their past results.

I don't mind exploring a far more successful Plaid and SNP, though, it hasn't really broken things so far despite the past two parliaments being hung.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

Yes for Wales, No for Scotland

...  This position seems incredibly hypocritical...

Yes (I'm role-playing)

[mencken]

Yes, so long as England (and Northern Ireland) also get their own assemblies, with analogous jurisdiciton.

[DavidB.]

No for both.

[Lumine]

Scottish and Welsh assemblies pass with a strong majority. Shore manages to carry on with Nationalist support until 1978.

[Barnes]

FTR, I voted Yes for Scotland and No for Wales in an attempt to mirror the 1979 result. So much for my cunning plan...